Israel's war crimes in Gaza

[DogOnPorch]

Ya, in my little world the Palestine's had nothing to do with the holocaust. It has nothing to do with the PEOPLE who live in the WEST BANK or GAZA today.

Without the Mufti and his nephew, Palestinians would just be mere Jordanians...or Egyptians.

[Hoser360]

So go blow them all to hell! why wait! I'm talking about the here and now.... and about PEOPLE - HUMANS.... lets not forget about them!

[bush_cheney2004]

So go blow them all to hell! why wait! I'm talking about the here and now.... and about PEOPLE - HUMANS.... lets not forget about them!

Yes, the ones who think launching rocket attacks, digging terror tunnels, and suicide bomb jackets are more important.

[DogOnPorch]

PEOPLE - HUMANS.... lets not forget about them!

I agree. In my opinion, Gaza should go back to Egypt as long as Camp David holds...and the West bank should be still part of Jordan as part of its peace treaty w/ Israel. Palestinians, as it were, should be absorbed into those two nations. Trouble is, neither country wants them, anymore. For political reasons rather than practical...

This leaves Israel, as victor in the Six Day War, to decide what happens in the occupied territories*...much to many folk's chagrin. And what the Israelis are faced with is the Mufti's Nazi legacy. The ol' coot haunts the Jews even from his grave. Talk about irony...

* Gaza and the West Bank weren't deemed occupied when Egypt and Jordan controlled the regions.

[Rue]

Hoser you rsponded to me and asked:

"As for the situation between Israel and Palestine TODAY, what is the solution? How can the West Bank and Gaza exist and get back to the 67' boarder? "

Well thanks for asking the question. Half my battle is to get people like you to ask a question that deals with the conflict and is not a sequitur and pretext to just use the topic to engage in Israel bashing or Jew bashing.

Just to make clear, your personal views, etc. are not my business-if I think you have said words that engage in negative generalizations of Jews, Zionists or Israel I would challenge them but that's where it ends. I am commenting on the words. In past posts with others I have been attacked personally and respond accordingly as you are not and have tried to make it clear you are not I appreciate that and will respectively acknowledge your attempts to dettach and discuss the issues not the Jews int he issues.

Let me try this:

1-terrorists disarm as did the IRA before Irish peace talks could come about;

2-a recognition of Israel having the right to exist as a Jewish state free of terror attacks by th Arab League of Nations, PA, Hamas, etc.;

3-predicated on 1 and 2, withdrawal of most of the Israelis from the West Bank (does not include the ulra orthodox Jews who do not recognize the state of Israel and have lived in and around Hebron since ancient days);

4-creation of a free trade zone between Jordan, Israel, the West Bank and Gaza;

5-security agreement enabling Palestinians to use Amman and Tel Aviv airports and Israeli ports in expedited process;

6-mutual projects to build and share water, solar power, deal with garbage, sewage, health matters;

7-mutual projects to refine oil off Gaza coast t fund the Palestinian nation and oil between Israel and Cyprus to finance Cyprus and Israel nations;

8-exchange of university students and high school students on mutual projects between the 3.

Now the above is of course a vision. I and 2 are not happening and until they do 308 are pipe dreams..

You want it all summarized in one simple answer-see Jews as equals to others and in this conflict Palestinians and Israelis as equals. Stop dwelling on the past and what hasn't worked and focus on the here and now and what can work in the future.

[Rue]

Ya, in my little world the Palestine's had nothing to do with the holocaust. It has nothing to do with the PEOPLE who live in the WEST BANK or GAZA today.

Then say that.

[Rue]

So go blow them all to hell! why wait! I'm talking about the here and now.... and about PEOPLE - HUMANS.... lets not forget about them!

If you are talking to me who was there-there's humans on both sides of the conflict caught in a battle neither started. Both are equally as vulnerable and BOTH Israelis and Palestinians die.

There's two sides in this conflict, two sets of people being attacked.

Innocent Palestinians die because that is a deliberate choice Hamas and other Palestinian extremists maker to deliberately place them in the line of fire.

Hamas plans deliberately to kill civilians as a p.r. tool. It deliberately engages in tactics to kill its own and says in its charter all are martyrs in the cause.

The IDF must fight an enemy who hides in civilian clothing and fires from schools, hospitals, homes.

You know what its like to get shot at by someone hiding in a group of children and who is one? ou ever been shot at by a grandma, a pregnant woman. You ever seen someone walking all spaztic and twisted suddenly pull out a weapon and began shooting?

You ever have a guy in a wheel chair suddenly blow up that wheel chair.

You ever have someone dressed as a member of the press, an ambulance driver, nurse, nun suddenly attacking you?

Hamas and other terror organizations deliberately place civilians in harms way to get them killed and placed on the internet aas part of a pr campaign to demonize the IDF and all Israelis for defending themselves.

You know how to fight an enemy that shape shifts into any shape and guise, poses internet pictures add follows no rules of honour or code of conduct?

Please...tell me how you fight Hamas.

Or do you want to tell me what some of the others have on this forum that Israel should do nothing and let itself be attacked.

Or wait even better, withdraw to even more dangerous borders to make it even easier to kill Israelis.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Rue

[Argus]

Ya, that's a great choice... What level of f*cked up would you prefer..?

The point is this is the standard for life over there.

People here express indignation and outrage over stuff that happens to the Palestinians by those nasty Jews even though that stuff, and worse happens EVERYWHERE in the middle east every day, but you don't care.

Give the Palestinians complete freedom and what would change? Would they live in a democracy? No. Would they be free to worship as they please, to speak as they please? No. What would change? Virtually nothing. Instead of IDF checkpoints there'd e Hamas checkpoints, if fewer of them. The nice settlements previously inhabited by the Jews would instead be inhabited by Hamas leaders and their friends and supporters.

[kactus]

The point is this is the standard for life over there.

People here express indignation and outrage over stuff that happens to the Palestinians by those nasty Jews even though that stuff, and worse happens EVERYWHERE in the middle east every day, but you don't care.

Give the Palestinians complete freedom and what would change? Would they live in a democracy? No. Would they be free to worship as they please, to speak as they please? No. What would change? Virtually nothing. Instead of IDF checkpoints there'd e Hamas checkpoints, if fewer of them. The nice settlements previously inhabited by the Jews would instead be inhabited by Hamas leaders and their friends and supporters.

That is a sweeping generalisation and you don't know that. You are just assuming how the palestinians will behave in the absence of israeli security forces....

Same way that rue doesn't want jews to be judged you are doing the same to palestinians treating them like sub human....

[Rue]

That is a sweeping generalisation and you don't know that. You are just assuming how the palestinians will behave in the absence of israeli security forces....

Same way that rue doesn't want jews to be judged you are doing the same to palestinians treating them like sub human....

He wasn't referring to Palestinians-he was referring to Hamas or other terrorists that control them.

Read back his words:

"Give the Palestinians complete freedom and what would change? Would they live in a democracy? No. Would they be free to worship as they please, to speak as they please? No. What would change? Virtually nothing. Instead of IDF checkpoints there'd e Hamas checkpoints, if fewer of them. The nice settlements previously inhabited by the Jews would instead be inhabited by Hamas leaders and their friends and supporters."

The point he's made from day one is that Palestinians, the people themselves are controlled by Hamas, Fatah. etc.

Palestinians are not the issue-its the terrorists among them who are Palestinian and often non Palestinian that control them that are the issue.

Be fair with his words.

Now I have to tell you from having been on the West Bank, I think most people Jewish or Muslim don't want problems but and its a big but, majorities are usually silent and manipulated and controlled by loud, brutal minorities.

I know many moderate Palestinians that leave. They don't stay because they have no future not just because as you might think because of Israel but because of their belief that can't get rid of Hamas, the corrupt PA, etc.

A Palestinian moderate today who would say openly they would accept a Jewish state next door and denounces terrorism wouwould be killed.

Fatah Hawks, Hamas, PFLP, Intifada, etc., they come in the night-and if you are perceived as being a collaborator they

gut you.

You want specifics. In Gaza they placed rubber tires around the necks of Palestinians who Hamas thought were moderate

and lit the tires on fire.

They would throw bodies out of moving cars with brooms or other long instruments shoved up the anus and out the mouth or neck.

They would leave people almost dead gurgling on the streets as a warning.

One technique is to poke eyes out or cut genitals off and stick them in the mouth.

On the West Bank? You can have an embryo cut right of a pregnant woman, heads cut off, people's stomachs cut open so

their entrails come out.

Palestinians live in a fear. Their leaders aren't boy scouts. You question Fatah, Hamas, etc., you end up dead.

I've seen mothers after they tried to fight and resist their boys leaving. I know what they do. This is a world where

life is expendable and when you kill your own you did them a favour, you made them martyrs to a higher cause of liberating the earth from infidel.

Muslim extremists come from all countries and infiltrate, control and finance Palestinian terror cells.

That's the grim reality. The other grim reality is Palestinians have moderates and intellectuals that have to leave or

die.

Its a mess. A bloody mess. I can only tell you the PA are corrupt sob's and people voted Hamas at a time thinking they

were at least honest. The Hamas of the past, a conservative orthodox cell that did not engage in terror was shunted

aside by a Syrian cell committed to violence long ago.

Hamas has probably killed more of its own than the IDF have ironically and that is not reported.

[Scott Mayers]

Wow. I take a few days break from the Internet and discover my email full of notifications of responses on this!

I must say up front, I can't make heads or tails of Rue here and I'm guessing his own attitude to be overtly deceptive here is something I'd be impossible to alter. He/she either lacks necessary logic or he/she's playing dumb on purpose. Definitions, for instance, have no ABSOLUTE value of truth nor falsehood and require explicating them in discussions or debate. I noticed he pointed to a definition I do include in my own for "nationalism" but either can't notice or is purposely feigning such ignorance.

I can't defend a negative....I nor anyone can attempt to disprove an accusation of something they are not. He/she's appearing to target me directly and NOT my argument too. So I won't bother with you Rue unless you can respect me with sincerity. I could accuse you of being a child predator and demand you prove you are not. Would this be appropriate behavior of me?

As to bush_cheney2004's response to me:

I was demonstrating the weakness of your stated position and comparison vis-a-vis Palestinians. Just for extra measure, I tossed in the direct Canadian military intervention in Haiti's right to self-determination (kidnapping of President Aristide in 2004), a "war crime". And yet, Haitians have not taken to Hamas methods for bombings, murders, and kidnappings.

Your Haiti comparison is beyond my own background and would require me to look up whatever you are even talking about before I could make any remote comment. I haven't noticed anything you assert nor am I MY GOVERNMENT. I don't defend the country I am born to as I already have enough reflective concerns about it to which I don't approve. So your comparison is invalid even by these facts alone.

I said:

Why do the Israeli terrorists continue to assert a right to political authority OVER THE PALESTINIANS when they aren't even remotely accepted as humans deserving a right to be politically represented in such a supposedly caring country as Israel? If you, claiming yourself American, are sincere, should you not think it fair then if ANY yet alone a coalition of external countries should take over American's lands, give them to some foreign selected extreme cult and ethnicity, like DEMANDING Americans MUST take in Immigrants contrary to their interest, and then expect Americans NOT TO FIGHT BACK?]

Because they can....and will. Israel will abandon all occupied territory just as soon as Canada and the United States leave native lands in North America. Sound fair to you ?

You're accepting the logic of your own to stand up against imposed external Nationalists to infiltrate your country knowing they'd aim only to defeat anyone NOT of their 'kind' yet can't sympathize this with the Palestinians where the State of Israel was imposed upon them from without?

Your own nation and many others have labeled Hamas and other Palestinian groups as "terrorists"...for decades. Plead your hypotheticals with them.

I do have concern and DO actively complain against this attitude. I am NOT my Country and don't pretend to defend any supposed stance of my nor anyone's Nation as others do. What matters is that I don't presume one is "terrorist" without respecting the fact that the advantage of the powerful imposing such labels themselves are at least as equivalently "terrorist".

I would't use such a label at all except for the fact that those choosing to use this term are using deceptive and hypocritical rhetoric.

If I cornered you in some back alley, then just stood in your way, claim the passage out is mine then do nothing and wait, would you just sit there loving me because I might offer you my left over lunch scraps as I keep my ground?

No, I would ask if you felt that way because I murdered your family last year, or 40 years ago and promised to keep doing it.

Huh? If I cornered YOU in this alley, even without overt 'violence', is this not STILL indirect 'violence' against you and thus the same as the Palestinian's violation coming from Israel. Even if I'm not touching you but only preventing you from passing because I'm larger than you, have more powerful weapons, etc, this is STILL an act of violence to which you and others disrespectfully ignore.

AND, how would you think of other onlookers who watch, notice you throw a rock at me and instead of understanding you are taken hostage, they blame you for deserving your entrapment because you threw a rock?

Your reasoning lacks sincerity.

Sincerity is irrelevant...I am all about reality. Launch a rocket...get bombed ten times over. Any questions ?

Reality is that nature is not compassionate for one side nor the other as we are all animals. But under the common goal of civilization, we cannot ignore those declaring some other as 'terrorist' without investigating their own role in this. The reality is that Israel was formed upon a Nationalistic ideal to favor a Jewish-only state. Their prosperity and apparent 'democracy' does not include the Palestinians that were there either and makes them highly 'wrong' if they continue to maintain this as they do today. Notice how regardless of our own abuses in the past for North American Natives, we DO NOT pretend we did nothing 'wrong' as the Israeli-Zionists ARE of their own foundation.

This can and will occur here as elsewhere if we are not able to take care to notice what it is precisely that causes the problems everywhere. And I believe it is "Nationalism" that exists anywhere from all spectra of political ideology.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Scott Mayers

[Argus]

That is a sweeping generalisation and you don't know that. You are just assuming how the palestinians will behave in the absence of israeli security forces....

I'm basing it on how they behave in the absence of Israeli security forces in Gaza, on how life is there now, and on how other Arab governments behave.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

....Reality is that nature is not compassionate for one side nor the other as we are all animals. But under the common goal of civilization, we cannot ignore those declaring some other as 'terrorist' without investigating their own role in this. The reality is that Israel was formed upon a Nationalistic ideal to favor a Jewish-only state. Their prosperity and apparent 'democracy' does not include the Palestinians that were there either and makes them highly 'wrong' if they continue to maintain this as they do today. Notice how regardless of our own abuses in the past for North American Natives, we DO NOT pretend we did nothing 'wrong' as the Israeli-Zionists ARE of their own foundation.

And yet, despite strident attacks against "nationalism", you have not or will not suggest that North American nations return all land and wealth from natural resources obtained through domination and conquest that continues to this day. Why is Israel held to a different standard after decades of existential wars and attacks ? This is reality, not irrelevant compassion safely expressed from across the sea.

[Scott Mayers]

And yet, despite strident attacks against "nationalism", you have not or will not suggest that North American nations return all land and wealth from natural resources obtained through domination and conquest that continues to this day. Why is Israel held to a different standard after decades of existential wars and attacks ? This is reality, not irrelevant compassion safely expressed from across the sea.

Who says I'm not?

I think it was a crime to 'reserve' our Natives as if they were a distinct species. And for the kinds of attempt to 'fix' this through various means ALWAYS came down THROUGH Nationalistic types: namely the means of government to attempt to use Religious organs (of their own Nationalism)to have authority to 'assimilate' the Aboriginal to their own 'cults'.

I've just prepared something for a new thread I'll post right away on "Nationalism" to separate my concern specifically apart from any Nationalism specifically. But understand that I don't accept supporting the State of Israel out of a universal disdain for ANY Nationalism anywhere. But I'll leave it to that thread. Give me a few minutes.

[bush_cheney2004]

Who says I'm not?

Your (our) lives in North America, even as dissident voices protesting the status quo. That is also possible in Israel, much less so in Palestine.

Israel will continue to consolidate gains and attack any threat to its existence for the same reason we did/do it when faced with even less harm.

Gazans knew this...it was not a big secret.

Edited March 9, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Scott Mayers]

Here's the link to my thread to relate to Nationalism....http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25623-nationalism-is-the-doom-of-all-politics/

[Rue]

Scott Mayer you made some comments in post 886 that I will respond to.

" I can't make heads or tails of Rue here, and I'm guessing his own attitude to be overtly

deceptive here,"

Your above comment evidences a repeat tactic of assigning negative characteristics, motives, beliefs to

anyone you think does not think like you. Its what you did with Jews. Zionists, the state of Israel,

Israelis in past posts and now me in this latest response and this is precisely why I have challenged

your words that stereotype others.

You suggested I am playing dumb with your words. No, I am challenging your inability to back up

those words with proof. Dumb refers to a person who is unable to speak. In the present case the only

o ne unable to speak is you when it comes to providing a defense to any of your comments about Jews,

Zionists or Israelis.

You made the statement that and I quote, " definitions for Instance (sic) have no absolute

value of truth nor(sic) falsehood and require explicating (sic) them

in discussions or debate. I noticed he (me) pointed to a definition I do include in my own for

"nationalism" but either can't notice or is purposely feigning such ignorance."

Interesting syntax. To start with your reference to absolute truth and falsehood

is illogical as well as nonsensical as it ignores that words derive their meaning

from context and common usage and the meanings don't change until the new context and

usage is communicated. Using your "logic" words mean whatever you want them to mean and

so of course what you are trying to do and I might say quite clumsily and transparently is to

try justify your being unable to defend yourself (leave your self a way out of your being caught lying)

when you get caught misrepresenting definitions.

Uh no Mayer, your attempt to put vasoline on your words to slip, slide your way out of a

misrepresentation aint gonna fly.

In the past you were exposed for fabricated a false etiology of the word " Jew ".

When challenged to provide a basis for your misrepresentations of its etiology

you could not. You then did the same with the word "goy" and got caught falsely

defining it to try stereotype the thought processes of all Jews and myself.

Let's also be clear your statement I pointed to a definition of nationalism you "included" in

yours is false. In fact I did the exact opposite. I in fact showed how your definition of nationalism

does not include but contradicts and replaces the definition of nationalism used today by

everyone but you. Your definition of nationalism in fact is your creation and replaces the

definition of nationalism with your own.

More to the point I challenged your changing the use of the word nationalism

to show how you do the same with Zionism. With the definition of Zionism you have repeated many

times a false definition of it.

You have deliberately stated the falsehood that Zionism defines Jews as a race, a superior race and

a unique species. It does not and never has and when you were asked to provide proof for your false statements, you could not. Its what you do, fabricate definitions that don't exist and then when caught

try change the subject by either insulting me or others who challenge your lack of proof or

now this latest ridiculous attempt to place vasoline on words claiming they mean whatever you

want them to mean.

You were exposed for deliberately misrepresenting definitions and altering the actual

definition of Zionism to give it the same characteristics as Nazism so you could then say

its the same as Nazism.

No amount of vasoline you try rub onto words to try slip your way out of your falsehoods is going

to work Mayer. The manipulative tactics and techniques have come to an end.

You stated and I quote:

"I can't defend a negative...I nor (sic) anyone can attempt to disprove an accusation of something

they (Jews) are not."

Of course your words can't. You haven't a clue how to defend your stereotypes and negative slurs about

Jews, Zionists, Zionism, Judaism, Israel, Israelis.

This is why you words were challenged and exposed for what they are, false, bigoted and hateful.

Mayer don't come on this board and claim no one has to prove what they say on this forum. This is about

your words. Don't hide behind the word "anyone". This is about your words, and yes Mayer,

you, me, anyone who wants to state an opinion, should be prepared to back it up with proof because

if they can't they have no credibility.

By the way, name calling, bigoted name calling which is what you engage in, its not defensible.

Its reprehensible.

in is not defensible

Now as for the comment you won't respond further to me "unless you (me) respect me with sincerity", I

say this with sincerity, your inflated sense of self where you now pose yourself as having a buttox

I must kiss is hilarious. This board knows the only buttox I kiss is my wife's.

Now finally the comment about child predator made no sense. It appears you drifted into

some and place where it appears you feel unfairly challenged as a child molester and thus the

bizarre reverse accusation/analogy.

What would you now like me to say, busted? peek a boo I see the real you?

Enough Mayer. This thread is not about you.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Rue

[Big Guy]

It appears that Netanyahu is just following the wishes of his electorate:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/03/poll-israeli-jews-palestinians-expelled-160309171647813.html

Most Israelis want the Palestinians off their land and out of the State that the Zionists have usurped. Good for Netanyahu! At least he now has a statistical reason for his program of cultural genocide. I wonder if the majority of Germans wanted the Jews out of Germany in the 1930's?

I hope Netanyahu has a more humane plan than the "final solution".

Edited March 10, 2016 by Big Guy

[Scott Mayers]

Scott Mayer you made some comments in post 886 that I will respond to.

" I can't make heads or tails of Rue here, and I'm guessing his own attitude to be overtly

deceptive here,"

Your above comment evidences a repeat tactic of assigning negative characteristics, motives, beliefs to

anyone you think does not think like you. Its what you did with Jews. Zionists, the state of Israel,

Israelis in past posts and now me in this latest response and this is precisely why I have challenged

your words that stereotype others.

You make a lot of logical fallacies here. Your feigning of some 'challenge'of me is what some might do to "throw it out there" by asserting I have some position and demand that I either confirm or prove that it isn't the case. I can't tell if you are sincere or not. But I assure you, my problem is with YOU personally, not some whole subset of humans, whether "Jewish" or any other group. If you're sincere and want to understand, go to my new thread on "Nationalism" and we can try to discuss issues WITHOUT reference to your personal identity. You may be just too affected to be fair here.

You suggested I am playing dumb with your words. No, I am challenging your inability to back up

those words with proof. Dumb refers to a person who is unable to speak.

Read your words here again. You're begging some universally fixed definition of "dumb" when it often has two distinct meanings, one of which is 'mute' and the other which references one as "ACTING with naivete or stupidity."

Definitions are just created symbols (usually words) that represent any idea one chooses. While it can be used rhetorically in ways to attempt to transfer one into thinking one meaning over another, I was in no way being unnecessarily creative in my use of "Nationalism" to which you initially complained of. But see that thread...and try not to take offence personally to presuming you 'dumb'. It is one realistic option to which I infer based on your behavior.

I won't respond to you unless you can respect me.

[Rue]

Mayer in post 894 you accused me of trying to create a "universally fixed definittion of "dumb"" then in the next breath state your universally fixed definition of "definitions", stating and I quote:

"definitions are just created symbols (usually words) that represent any idea one chooses".

Mayer the definition I used for "dumb" comes from what is called a dictionary. Its ordinary meaning refers to one unable to speak. It has in common usage now become used as a word to suggest someone is unintelligent. For that matter the word "definition"' refers to the exact statement of the meaning of a word. We have definitions for words so we can learn to use these words the same way otherwise we could nit understand one another when conversing. This is why we have dictionaries, so we can learn the meaning of words in a consistent manner, to then be able to communicate to and with each other.

The purpose of learning the same language, i.e., English, is so by following certain rules as to how to use words we can then understand their meaning. Language and learning how to use la language enables us to be able to communicate. The rules as to the meaning of words allows common ground as to how to use the word so we can then create the understanding of what is said.

The "words are whatever you want them to mean" shtick when you get caught red handed fabricating and misrepresenting is pointless. No Mayer I am not going to indulge you when you state things that are false about Jews, Zionists, Zionism, Judaism, and Israelis, I am going to challenge you for saying false things. No you do not have a right to say false things and then claim you can because words mean whatever you want them too.

As well, your responses show in each and every sentence that while you demand from me that I accept your subjective opinions because you believe you have the right to give whatever meaning you want to Jews, Zionists, Judaism, Israelis, you routinely dismiss the thoughts, beliefs, language of Jews, Zionists, Zionism and Judaism.

Its what you do,-demand from others that which you won't give others.

Your whole point of coming on this thread was to pose yourself as an authority on Judaism and Zionism, tell people what Jews, Zionists, Israelis think, then lecture in a patronizing tone to Jews, Zionists, Israelis how they should define themselves and think.

You throw out false definitions, stereotypes, characteristics and beliefs that you attributed to Jews, Zionists and Israelis, as well as insults about them and references that they are criminals.

.

You want to hate Jews, Zionists, Israelis? You want to spread hateful comments equating them to Nazis? Of course I will challenge you. Don't play Alice in Wonderland with me and give me this adolescent stoner babble about like wow man a word is whatever I want it to be man like wow. Save the stoner babble. Been there, inhaled that. In my world, words get people killed. In my world words are used as weapons to kill. Its not some game where some self indulgent stoner stares at his belly button lint and says like wow man how do I know my gingerbread man is like your gingerbread man like wow like how do we know anything is real man like wow that just is like a mind blower man.

Save it. Save it for your world where you feel there is no cause and effect or consequences to what you say and everything and everyone is there to cater to what you want it to be. Pass yourself off as an innocent victim who like wow man is just like wow man saying what like comes to his mind man. No Mayer I am not here to undulge you. I am here to respond to your words and representations when they are false and hurtful of Jews, Zionists, Israelis or for that matter anyone.

Mayer you keep responding stating " I won't respond to you unless you can respect me." Mayer I respond to your words. Stop referring every thread back to your feelings and a unilateral demand that I make you feel that I admire you. This is not about your feelings or you. Its about using language that hurts people. Its about challenging words that are hurtful that you stated.

No Mayer you don't elicit respect from anyone if you lie about them, say hateful things about them, show a dismissive attitude towards their "roots", and show them rudeness, arrogance, contempt, arrogance, lack of empathy and a false assumption you are superior to them and so can patronize them and tell them how they think, and how they must think.

Let me put it in terms you can understand.

No Mayer you don't fat in someone's face, then demand that that face you farted in say sorry.

The fact is you are unable to show, evidence, any effort to obtain any evidence as to the Judaism or Zionism you pose yourself as an expert on.

The fact is you are unable to show, evidence any understanding of basic concepts, principals, of Judaism or Zionism.

What you have shown in your words is intolerance towards what you believe to be the views of Jews, Zionists, Israelis, (bigotry).

What you show in your words is that you treat all Jews, Zionists, Israelis with hatred and intolerance (bigotry).

I believe your words show a lack of consideration for the very right of Jews to practice Judaism not just live in Israel as citizens of a Jewish state.

I believe your words are reckless and incite hatred towards not just Israelis and Zionists but any Jew and I have explained why.

Let me conclude with saying this clearly for the next time you demand from me respect-I consider this thread nothing but manure that attracts flies.

I am just here to make sure the Zita virus doesn't spread. The world is already full of enough people lacking brains,.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Rue

[Big Guy]

Zionists have discovered that a very useful propaganda tool is the Israeli school system:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/03/israeli-textbook-bad-arabs-bad-jews-160308091457575.html

Although Palestinian and Jewish students are segregated in Israel, the curriculum in Arab schools has always been strictly controlled by Jewish officials.

"Our teachers are now being required to present us as immigrants in our own country. And our students are being taught that the Jewish identity of the state is far more important than its democratic identity," he said. "It is time for us to take the initiative and teach our children the true meaning of democratic values."

As Adolph had declared: "He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future".

[Argus]

As Adolph had declared: "He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future".

Of course, when you get your news from a site noted for being extremely hostile towards Israelis and Jews you get only a one sided view of things, and reflect that to others.

In 2013, the Council of Religious Institutions of the Holy Land released a report on Palestinian and Israeli schoolbooks. That report concluded that incitement exists on both sides, albeit less on the Israeli side.

In July 2015, PMW prepared a comprehensive report on Palestinian Authority ‎education. It includes chapters on names of schools (dozens named after terrorists), ‎school activities (e.g., visiting homes of terrorists), statements and activities of ‎educators (e.g., presenting murderers as role models and promising a world without ‎Israel), schoolbooks, informal education (children reciting poems on kids' TV programs: ‎e.g., Jews are monkeys and pigs; Tel Aviv is "occupied Palestine"), and a chapter with ‎examples of honoring Hitler.‎

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=122

Edited March 10, 2016 by Argus

[Scott Mayers]

Mayer in post 894 you accused me of trying to create a "universally fixed definittion of "dumb"" then in the next breath state your universally fixed definition of "definitions", stating and I quote:

"definitions are just created symbols (usually words) that represent any idea one chooses".

Mayer the definition I used for "dumb" comes from what is called a dictionary. Its ordinary meaning refers to one unable to speak. It has in common usage now become used as a word to suggest someone is unintelligent. For that matter the word "definition"' refers to the exact statement of the meaning of a word. We have definitions for words so we can learn to use these words the same way otherwise we could nit understand one another when conversing. This is why we have dictionaries, so we can learn the meaning of words in a consistent manner, to then be able to communicate to and with each other.

Let's begin with the fact that this is a site of discussion between particular people. As such, because everyone comes from different backgrounds, we have different common uses of words. And so the first thing we often must do if we are getting deep into some controversy is to define our various different meanings to try to understand each other. This requires understanding that dictionary definitions are not universally shared nor have authority to determine what one means. Even with those who share the same words and meanings have multiple meaning of the same term, which acts as a VARIABLE. And the biggest confusion comes when we use a word in one meaning but transfer it without noticing.

Dictionaries are lists of common words with their VARIOUS meanings in use by some community. But dictionaries are also themselves not intended to be perfect nor to command what words people MUST use. You mentioned before, Rue, that you have the right to 'define' who you are and don't need someone else telling you what it means. In the proper context, this is correct. However, you don't seem to connect this fact with even our personal NAMES. Above, I've underlined the word, "Mayer", to which you have and continue to use to refer to me contrary to how I spell my name AND to the fact that it is not the 'culturally' accepted way people refer to one another unless they are intentionally indicating insult with purpose.

So, if you want to be 'sincere', let's start with referencing me with how I define myself. You may refer to me as "Scott", or "Scott Mayers", as I refer to you as "Rue" and not my own preferred "Rude" to which demonstrates how using ones' name can indicate respect or disrespect.

Next, since words are used arbitrarily and have multiple meanings, the dictionary only acts as a guide to help us understand each other. However, you can explicitly define a term to refer to whatever each person within some given conversation choose to. [i happen to be studying Turing Machines at present and find it difficult to interpret the particular definitions he uses to describe things unconventionally. The word, "computable", by most conventionally means some understood finite result that is 'computed' by some machine. But because he is making a proof, he opted to specifically define/redefine this term to specifically mean those results of some machine that creates an [i]infinite[/i] set of digits composed of ones (1) or zeros (0).]

So, for the sake of this argument between you and I, and, if you are sincere, let's begin with the words, "Jew" and "Jewish", just to begin. If one is refers to one who is a "Jew" or "Jewish" means possibly,

(1) A person who believes in Judaism or at least follows its philosophical aspects. It may also mean,

(2) A person who is related by ancestry to someone who was Jewish of definition (1). As a third one,

(3) Any one who is of both one who follows Judaism and who is ancestrally related to one OR just one or the other. [combination of (1) and/or (2)]

You may propose extra ones of course. Note that we use all of these conventionally. What is different about this term should become apparent if we compare this with the definition of "Christian". When one is understood to be a "Christian" it may mean

(1) A person who believes in Christ or at least follows the philosophical aspects espoused of this in some way.

BUT, normally, although one may opt to define this as such, this same term would be awkward to define one as

(2) A person who is related by ancestry to someone who is Christian.

That is, it is most unusual for one to define themselves as "Christian" based on definition (2) because it implies one must have some inherent factor to qualify them as "Christian", something most Christians would default to assume is non-sense. If "Christianity" was necessarily a label to include those born of someone who believes in Christ, then this indicates those who do think a Christian is one who inherits their belief is also one who does not 'choose' it.

This is the underlying comparative problem here and why others (like myself) have contention with those who accept the term "Jew" to mean ALL those definitions above. It implies there is some inherent factor necessary to qualify one as a "Jew". I accept definition (1) but, if the meanings of (2) or (3) apply, it implies that there is some genetic inherent factor to one who is merely born into some ancestral relation to a Jew [of definiton (1)].

You would be hypocritical to accept calling YOURSELF a "Jew" or "Jewish" by the second or third definition in any way because you would be DEFINING yourself as necessarily believing yourself as qualified as one solely based on some accident of birth, AND, to then also demand that others do NOT infer you are implying some special/distinct status for being such. You are stereotyping yourself because you are imposing a meaning to who you are as intrinsic to your heritage as if you have no choice to the matter of what you actually believe or not. This is because you imply that you 'own' the arbitrary factors of your ancestor's behaviors.

If this is sane to you, this would be like defaulting to believe that if any one of one's ancestors had molested one of their own children, then you, as a descendant 'own' this act. How does the actions of one's parents get 'owned' to their descendant?

Please respond to this first. If you at least understand what I'm getting at, you might begin to understand why me or anyone else would or should have contention with Israel. This is because the Israeli State is founded on an assumption of the "Jew" or what is "Jewish" is not simply one who follows Judaism, but to one who is at least BORN to some ancestor who was. How does this arbitrary factor(that is, culture)make one have a 'right' to some land based on the fact they have defined themselves of the above definitions inclusive?

Edited March 10, 2016 by Scott Mayers

[Scott Mayers]

Of course, when you get your news from a site noted for being extremely hostile towards Israelis and Jews you get only a one sided view of things, and reflect that to others.

Why is it that ANY dissenting opinion on Israel always defaulted to presuming it ANTI-JEW? This is absurd rhetoric and is not accounted for considering such sources are relatively non-existent in contrast to the rest of our Western media promoting an unusual biased support for Israel.

[DogOnPorch]

Why is it that ANY dissenting opinion on Israel always defaulted to presuming it ANTI-JEW? This is absurd rhetoric and is not accounted for considering such sources are relatively non-existent in contrast to the rest of our Western media promoting an unusual biased support for Israel.

I think it's due to the Palestinian Cause being born out of anti-Semitism. When that's the modus operandi of a given political movement, one expects the supporters to support the core values.