Hoser360 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 But yet you still benefit from it and have not started a thread here to discuss or condemn it. What's so special about Israel's version of the same deal ? Actually, as in Canada and the rest of the Americas, they made the right to do so with economic and military force, just like the British Empire had taught them. Some people don't like it when I draw such historical parallels...it makes them uncomfortable because they have to confront the reality of how Canada came to be and continues to dominate native people and their land, complete with "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity". Israel is a nation state founded and defended by force, and it will continue to do so when faced with any existential threat. Israel does not have to fly over the worlds largest oceans to bomb the locals in the way that Canada does. Israel fights much closer to home. Founded by who?
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Founded by who? Israel was founded by the Jewish Agency and David Ben-Gurion after the British Empire was weakened by WW2 (expired mandate), resulting war, and declaration of independence. This is something that many Americans can relate to. Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Israel was founded by the Jewish Agency and David Ben-Gurion after the British Empire was weakened by WW2 (expired mandate), resulting war, and declaration of independence. This is something that many Americans can relate to. It was actually created under UN resolution 181. Truman simply ignored his own state department of states recommendation of a trusteeship, and singly recognized the state of Israel. And the rest as they say, is a sordid history.
Hoser360 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Israel was founded by the Jewish Agency and David Ben-Gurion after the British Empire was weakened by WW2 (expired mandate), resulting war, and declaration of independence. This is something that many Americans can relate to. Oh, I must look this person up and educate myself on who he is. But are you saying that he funded the rise of Israel in Palestine, or was it that he provided the political means to do so? In all conflicts, to those who ask the how any why, if you want to know the root of the problem just follow the money. Who paid and subsidized the creation of today's Israel from the time of it's inception in modern (20th century) Palestine?
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Oh, I must look this person up and educate myself on who he is. But are you saying that he funded the rise of Israel in Palestine, or was it that he provided the political means to do so? Getting off topic, but his leadership and Zionist vision still applies today. Zionist ideology had already existed for many years prior to 1948. Israel will continue to commit so called "war crimes" as long as existential threats exist from "neighbours" who want to destroy it. Economics trumps Virtue.
Hoser360 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Getting off topic, but his leadership and Zionist vision still applies today. Zionist ideology had already existed for many years prior to 1948. Israel will continue to commit so called "war crimes" as long as existential threats exist from "neighbours" who want to destroy it. The opposition to Zionism is not just from it's neighbors but also comes from with'in Israel itself, from the very Jews who lived their their prior to the occupation of Zionist. The Jews who are in fact true decedents of the land and not those who claim to be Jewish by the choices of their culture heritage. To that end, I prey for all those who stand against such a tyranny, Jews, Christians and Muslims and everyone else that lives there who'd rather not be labelled in any of the described religions.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 The opposition to Zionism is not just from it's neighbors but also comes from with'in Israel itself, from the very Jews who lived their their prior to the occupation of Zionist. The Jews who are in fact true decedents of the land and not those who claim to be Jewish by the choices of their culture heritage. To that end, I prey for all those who stand against such a tyranny, Jews, Christians and Muslims and everyone else that lives there who'd rather not be labelled in any of the described religions. Good luck with that....Palestinian rocket attacks and suicide bombers tend to make even the most critical Israeli pacifist rethink their strategy. "True descendants of the land" is just another invitation for more conflict (e.g. right of return), and doesn't fly in Israel any more than it would fly in Canada. Economics trumps Virtue.
Hoser360 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Perhaps you should read more news from Israel. Besides rocket attacks from Palestine are a joke compared with what Israel has done to Gaza. The rockets fired from Gaza I could make here in my apartment... And there hasn't been any suicide bomber in over half a decade.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) Perhaps you should read more news from Israel. Besides rocket attacks from Palestine are a joke compared with what Israel has done to Gaza. The rockets fired from Gaza I could make here in my apartment... And there hasn't been any suicide bomber in over half a decade. OK....make some of those joke rockets and shoot them at a Canadian city and see what happens. There was a suicide bombing attack just last year (2015)...maybe you should read more news from Israel: http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/50818/first-suicide-bomber-of-third-intifada-detonates-car-bomb-at-security-checkpoint-in-judea-judea-and-samaria/ Edited February 18, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Economics trumps Virtue.
Bonam Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 It was actually created under UN resolution 181. Truman simply ignored his own state department of states recommendation of a trusteeship, and singly recognized the state of Israel. And the rest as they say, is a sordid history. Nope. The UN proposed that Israel be created, but the Arabs refused to abide by the terms of the resolution and invaded the Jewish communities with their combined forces. The Jews fought back, defending themselves, and were victorious. In this victory, they founded the state of Israel. The UN lifted not one finger to help uphold Israel as an independent state. The credit for Israel's creation and continued existence goes to its inhabitants alone.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Nope. The UN proposed that Israel be created, but the Arabs refused to abide by the terms of the resolution and invaded the Jewish communities with their combined forces. The Jews fought back, defending themselves, and were victorious. In this victory, they founded the state of Israel. The UN lifted not one finger to help uphold Israel as an independent state. The credit for Israel's creation and continued existence goes to its inhabitants alone. Agreed...that would be the "resulting war" part cited above. Israel was created by the people who fought and died, without "permission" from any other organization or nation, and they will continue to do so. Economics trumps Virtue.
Hoser360 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 OK....make some of those joke rockets and shoot them at a Canadian city and see what happens. There was a suicide bombing attack just last year (2015)...maybe you should read more news from Israel: http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/50818/first-suicide-bomber-of-third-intifada-detonates-car-bomb-at-security-checkpoint-in-judea-judea-and-samaria/ Oh you mean in one of the many occupied territories. Sorry, so sad, but I feel more sad for the woman. If the Israeli's were not there in the first place it likely would never have happened. With such a tragedy, one has to ask, what drive someone to kill them selves?
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Oh you mean in one of the many occupied territories. Sorry, so sad, but I feel more sad for the woman. If the Israeli's were not there in the first place it likely would never have happened. With such a tragedy, one has to ask, what drive someone to kill them selves? So it would be OK for a First Nations woman to explode a suicide car bomb in Caledonia, Ontario ? Would that move Canadians to give all the land back and pay for its historical "crimes" ? Fun to play these games but the bottom line is that Israel will continue to act in self interest to defend the Jewish state, and that includes very aggressive attacks on its enemies, more settlements, more resource consolidation, and a strong national defense. There is a reason that ISIS has not messed with Israel. Economics trumps Virtue.
Hoser360 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 So it would be OK for a First Nations woman to explode a suicide car bomb in Caledonia, Ontario ? Would that move Canadians to give all the land back and pay for its historical "crimes" ? Fun to play these games but the bottom line is that Israel will continue to act in self interest to defend the Jewish state, and that includes very aggressive attacks on its enemies, more settlements, more resource consolidation, and a strong national defense. There is a reason that ISIS has not messed with Israel. This is getting off topic of the crimes committed in Gaza by Israel. So why don't the Zionist's just exterminate all non Jews from the land of Palestine today and stop screwing around. If your bent on doing it, just do it and get it over with, why nibble here and there and take bites occasionally, just raise Gaza to the ground and drive all none Jews out of the west bank and claim Jerusalem 100%. The reason ISIS has not messed with Israel has nothing to do with is topic, although the enemy of my enemy is my friend. (as for the first nations of what we call Canada; they are a concurred people grasping at straws to stay a float as a culture and are a perfect example of how misguided the colonial powers were, and how they used religion to justify their inhumanity)
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 This is getting off topic of the crimes committed in Gaza by Israel. No, it is explicitly on topic as Israeli defense forces will continue to respond to attacks with very aggressive counterforce and destruction of enemy infrastructure and safe havens. Calling these responses "war crimes" is an exercise in feel good futility. (as for the first nations of what we call Canada; they are a concurred people.... Oh, why didn't you say so before ? In that case, Israel should just keep building more settlements on occupied land, right ? All is well ! Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Nope. The UN proposed that Israel be created, but the Arabs refused to abide by the terms of the resolution and invaded the Jewish communities with their combined forces. The Jews fought back, defending themselves, and were victorious. In this victory, they founded the state of Israel. The UN lifted not one finger to help uphold Israel as an independent state. The credit for Israel's creation and continued existence goes to its inhabitants alone. Sounds like the "credit" should go to the UN for not lifting one finger to uphold due process. They didn't and today's mess is the result. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 Sounds like the "credit" should go to the UN for not lifting one finger to uphold due process. They didn't and today's mess is the result. What was the UN going to do ? The UN and what army ? Economics trumps Virtue.
Hudson Jones Posted February 18, 2016 Author Report Posted February 18, 2016 As they should be, but off topic. Please get back to sending lots of military aid to Israel so it can bomb the hell out of its enemies and the whiners can cry about "war crimes". You like to scream bomb and murder. That's fine. You have every right to be like that. You can call Israel violating human rights and killing innocent people, "defending itself", when in the reality is otherwise. The point here is that many in the U.S. government are heavily influenced by extremist right wing Israeli policies that actually hurt Americans. When a decision is made by the U.S. government that sacrifices what's best for Americans (and humanity) in favour of a foreign country that is continuously violating the rights of another group, then people who support those decisions should be scrutinized. Americans are starting to wake up in regards to the stupid decisions made by their so-called representatives, like the $50 billion package Netanyahu is requesting from American taxpayers to pay to Israel, instead of fixing the crumpling infrastructure and fixing problems like the Flint, Michigan water crisis. It's happening, Yosemite Sam. They see that their government is not doing the right thing, so they're taking matters into their own hands. For example, this is huge: On Jan. 12th, the United Methodist Church in the US chose to divest from five Israeli banks implicated in Israel’s illegal “settlements,”. Across the pond, in Europe, the French telecom giant, Orange, is pulling out of Israel, effective this month. When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 18, 2016 Report Posted February 18, 2016 (edited) You like to scream bomb and murder. That's fine. You have every right to be like that. You can call Israel violating human rights and killing innocent people, "defending itself", when in the reality is otherwise. Thank you, but I always knew that I had the right before you granted permission. The point here is that many in the U.S. government are heavily influenced by extremist right wing Israeli policies that actually hurt Americans. When a decision is made by the U.S. government that sacrifices what's best for Americans (and humanity) in favour of a foreign country that is continuously violating the rights of another group, then people who support those decisions should be scrutinized. The U.S. government doesn't exist for the betterment of humanity. Please feel free to use your own country to influence foreign countries and human rights outcomes....go bomb some more people across the sea. It's easy to see why there is so much "scrutinizing", because "scrutinizing" is free. You might want to work on your own human rights violations and unsettled land claims in Canada first. Americans are starting to wake up in regards to the stupid decisions made by their so-called representatives, like the $50 billion package Netanyahu is requesting from American taxpayers to pay to Israel, instead of fixing the crumpling infrastructure and fixing problems like the Flint, Michigan water crisis. Of course, because Flint Michigan was such a paradise before Netanyahu came along. Strange that your hopes and dreams depend on waking Americans. It's happening, Yosemite Sam. They see that their government is not doing the right thing, so they're taking matters into their own hands. For example, this is huge: On Jan. 12th, the United Methodist Church in the US chose to divest from five Israeli banks implicated in Israel’s illegal “settlements,”. Across the pond, in Europe, the French telecom giant, Orange, is pulling out of Israel, effective this month. Oooo...scary. I wonder how much of the $3 billion + in foreign aid to Israel will be impacted by this church's decision. Thanks for reminding to send in my AIPAC contribution for this year. Edited February 18, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Economics trumps Virtue.
dre Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 Quite. I was just wondering though, are you allowed to kill someone who is trying to kill you, even though up that point he's been pretty useless at it? Must you wait for him to improve? Sure but if I force my way onto your property, bulldoze down your house and start building my own, shouldn't I expect you to try to kill me? I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Bonam Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Sure but if I force my way onto your property, bulldoze down your house and start building my own, shouldn't I expect you to try to kill me? Nope. If someone bulldozed your house would you go out and try to commit murder so you could be locked up for the rest of your life, or perhaps get killed in the act? No, you'd probably be smart enough to file a lawsuit instead. Maybe you wouldn't get your house back, but you'd probably get a payout enough to buy yourself a nice house elsewhere. Just because someone else does something nasty doesn't mean you should react in a way that is likely to make your own life even worse. Use reason, not emotion. Edited February 19, 2016 by Bonam
Argus Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 You asked who they have assassinated excluding terrorists and since everyone assassinated was deemed to be a terrorist by them, your question can not be answered. Perhaps if you could define what a terrorist is in your opinion I might be able to answer your question. So you consider bomb makers to be terrorist leaders? Give me a name or two. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 It begs the question, why does Israel always have to defend itself? Defend itself from what, who and why? Jew hating Arabs. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 You made the statement that Israel has been assassinating Arab leaders. I ask you who and you won't say? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinationsI guess we can start there.
Argus Posted February 19, 2016 Report Posted February 19, 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinationsI guess we can start there. No, let's start with the Arab leaders assassinated. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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