Hudson Jones Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Throughout the recent years, report after report from human rights organizations and fact finding misssions have pointed to Israel's continuous violations of international law and human rights. Many of the accusations amount to war crimes. This is exactly why Palestinians need to be part of ICC, so that they can have a chance to have those involved in these crimes to be prosecuted and punished. After the most recent attack on Gaza, Israel denied entry to Gaza, numerous human rights fact-finding missions, but it did allow in a team of medical experts. What they uncovered is shocking. Using human shields, attacking medical teams and hospitals, shooting at civilians waving white flags. A new report by Physicians for Human Rights authored by a team of international medical experts documents shocking testimonies of victims and presents new evidence from Operation Protective Edge in Gaza. ... The team of medical experts that authored the report visited Gaza three times as a delegation of Physicians for Human Rights (PHR). They collected testimonies from dozens of wounded and from medical teams, documented the army’s terrifying actions during the war. At least 15 people testified about and described incidents in which the army bombed a target, and then — after a short pause or immediately after — bombed it again. The result was especially deadly: family members, neighbors, passersby and/or medical and emergency teams that arrived to help the wounded and extract bodies from the rubble, were bombed themselves, were killed or wounded. ... The Red Crescent described the “double tap” practice as one of the central factors behind the deaths and injuries of their medical teams. A total of 23 medical personnel, 16 of them on duty, were killed during the war; another 83 were wounded. According to the team of experts, 45 ambulances were damaged by army attacks, including an ambulance station, 17 hospitals and 56 clinics that were entirely destroyed or damaged. And all that was after the UN transmitted to Israel the precise coordinates of every medical facility in the Gaza Strip. All this talk about human shields - Guess who was practicing it: In another incident a few days later, Israeli soldiers took over a home in the neighborhood and killed the father of the household, according to other family members. Next, they say, the soldiers made the other male family members stand in front of the windows; the soldiers stood behind, rested their weapons on their shoulders and shot outside — using them as human shields. Here is the full report. When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
eyeball Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Why would you say that? It's patently obvious combatants on virtually every front in the ME and surrounding region are succumbing to bloodthirstyness. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Actually, Israel has shown great restraint and patience given its military capabilities. They could have flattened Gaza decades ago. Economics trumps Virtue.
Big Guy Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 I do not think that there is a great disagreement of what Hamas did and what Israel did. It is well documented how many rockets, how they were targeted, how powerful they were as they were sent into Israel and how many Israeli civilians were killed or maimed. It is well documented how much firepower was applied against Hamas, what was targeted and how many Palestinians were killed and maimed. The question seems to be was the retaliation "appropriate", was there some kind of set of rules that was supposed to govern this conflict and did either party contravene those rules. If there is to be a judgement then some impartial body has to be entrusted to evaluate the facts and lay blame if rules were violated and appropriate penalties be applied to those who broke the rules. The only world body available at this time is the ICC. I do not know of another world body which is in a position to investigate and judge fro a global perspective. I look forward to their deliberations, conclusions and recommendations. Since "might is right" is still the current reality in the world, I doubt if any judgement and/or penalty which assigns blame to either Israel of the USA will ever be applied. Any judgement or penalty which assigns blame to either Hamas or the Palestinians will be facilitated by Israel and the USA. Let the process begin. Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Guest Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Does "appropriate response" mean you have to wait to be killed before you can kill?
Big Guy Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 There are "measured responses" and "appropriate responses" and indiscriminate killing and a massacre and genocide and "shooting fish in a barrel" and "necessary defensive measures" and "provoked defensive attacks" and ... The combatants can call it what they want as can individuals who take sides. That is why objective world courts have been created. Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Guest Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Quite. I was just wondering though, are you allowed to kill someone who is trying to kill you, even though up that point he's been pretty useless at it? Must you wait for him to improve?
Big Guy Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Interesting question. You may have a point if you end up killing only the guy who has been trying to kill you. But when you take out his family and his neighbors some may think that is not an appropriate response. But that is what courts are for. Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
eyeball Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Quite. I was just wondering though, are you allowed to kill someone who is trying to kill you, even though up that point he's been pretty useless at it? Must you wait for him to improve? I don't know, if you insist that your enemy should only fight you with conventional weapons on a conventional battlefield, shouldn't you wait until he can? Edited January 24, 2015 by eyeball A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 ...I look forward to their deliberations, conclusions and recommendations. Since "might is right" is still the current reality in the world, I doubt if any judgement and/or penalty which assigns blame to either Israel of the USA will ever be applied. Any judgement or penalty which assigns blame to either Hamas or the Palestinians will be facilitated by Israel and the USA. Why would the ICC penalize the United States ? Did the U.S. bomb Gaza ? Wishful thinking run amok... Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 I don't know, if you insist that your enemy should only fight you with conventional weapons on a conventional battlefield, shouldn't you wait until he can? Sure, as long he practices in the other direction.
eyeball Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 That really sums up where things stand right now doesn't it? Sure, they can have a country just somewhere else. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
marcus Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Does "appropriate response" mean you have to wait to be killed before you can kill? A false narrative that Israel and the propaganda machine has been trying to sell and shove down our throats. Fact is that in all three Gaza attacks, Israel was the one who started and provoked the war. Before the Shady's come in here screaming that the kidnappers started it; Hamas had no idea these guys were going to kidnap the teens. Also, in majority of the cases, it has been Israel who has violated the truce and ceasefire that Hamas and the IDF have had. Edited January 24, 2015 by marcus "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Too bad...if Hamas cannot govern Gaza and the criminal murderers who live there, then Israel will. Economics trumps Virtue.
marcus Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Too bad...if Hamas cannot govern Gaza and the criminal murderers who live there, then Israel will. And since Israel cannot govern itself and continuously commits crimes and murdering people, then what? Kind of like those African countries who commit atrocities. What do you say? You're okay with terrorist attacks? How about getting Palestine into ICC? "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 And since Israel cannot govern itself and continuously commits crimes and murdering people, then what? Kind of like those African countries who commit atrocities. What do you say? You're okay with terrorist attacks? How about getting Palestine into ICC? The ICC doesn't mean jack to me....launch rockets...get bombed. It's not complicated. Why has the racist ICC only brought actions against African nations ? Economics trumps Virtue.
jacee Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 The ICC doesn't mean jack to me....launch rockets...get bombed. It's not complicated. Why has the racist ICC only brought actions against African nations ? Because that's where the corporate inspired genocides are occurring now. Something about resources some corporate thugs are after, partnering with genocidal terrorists, displacing and murdering people ... same old same old. .
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Because that's where the corporate inspired genocides are occurring now. Not even close for so called "crimes against humanity, war crimes, and genocide" around the world. Inconsistent application by such a racist court is no surprise. Economics trumps Virtue.
marcus Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Since bush_cheney believes the ICC is not an option, the only option left is terrorist attacks by militant groups and lone wolfs. As according to bush_cheney that seems to be the only thing left that could counter Israel's criminal murderers and their violations of international law. Without the hope of a body representing the international community to stop Israel, you can be sure that the terrorist attacks will go to the next level. Chemical weapons built in basements and released into public places will be the next step of a desperate and hopeless group of people who have been wronged for so long by not only their occupiers, but by the international community. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 .... Chemical weapons built in basements and released into public places will be the next step of a desperate and hopeless group of people who have been wronged for so long by not only their occupiers, but by the international community. Yes...they are so hard done by the "international community" that they and their supporters can easily rationalize and justify terror attacks against anybody...anywhere. So much for "justice"..... Economics trumps Virtue.
jacee Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Not even close for so called "crimes against humanity, war crimes, and genocide" around the world. Inconsistent application by such a racist court is no surprise. Thats quite a claim. Do elucidate. .
Rue Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Yes sir one way to avoid and try focus away from Muslim extremist terrorism in and outside Israel against innocent civilians is to start yet another thread demonizing Israel. Imagine that.
jacee Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 Since bush_cheney believes the ICC is not an option, ... I wouldn't worry too much about what bc thinks. The world goes on ... .
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 I wouldn't worry too much about what bc thinks. The world goes on ... . So does Israel...and American support. Economics trumps Virtue.
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