Israel's war crimes in Gaza

[Rue]

"people like me who defend Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, "

People like you ... And the rest of us.

To repeat again ... and again and again ...

Israel can be whatever kind of state it wants to be. Nobody else's business.

Yes and you can repeat your worn semantic game of evading stating IT IS YOUR BELIEF NOT ISRAELS that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state. The question is not what Israel can be, its whether you are capable of accepting them as a Jewish state. You clearly can not otherwise you would not have repeated this ridiculous and pointless game of semantics to the extent you have of avoiding stating your OWN OPINION.

Your deflection from stating your own opinion is spent. Move on.

Repeat it all you want.

[Rue]

Rue, for the last time - I do not know you and from what I read of your postings, I do not wish to know you. What I have posted above was directed to other posters on this board who may not have many Jewish friends and mistakenly assume that you speak for more people than yourself. You do not.

My Jewish friends certainly do not share your views and when I have shown some of your postings to them, they have said some not very nice things about how you come across and how to interact with others through your posts. You certainly have the right to post them (within the parameters of the rules of this forum) and others have the right to read them - or not.

As to tactics - I have none because I need none. I am not in a battle or confrontation. To have a telephone disagreement one of the two has to pick up the phone. I am not taking your calls. You obviously have some strong views about Israel and good for you - they are your views and your views only.

As you have noticed, I am not commenting on your opinions - I am commenting on the fact that others should not feel that other Jews share your opinion.

I have never stated once you knew me or wish to know me. That is your projection.

Your next comment that your good Jew bad Jew tactic was NOT directed at me in fact was contradicted by you when you stated right after you denied it was directed at me that in fact it was and you are intending to lecture others on the board that not all Jews are like me in opinion. You could barely go four words without contradicting yourself and not only that pose as some presumptious enough to belief the people on this board are all morons and belief I speak to them. Thank God they have you to set them straight that I am a bad Jew and there are good Jews and those good Jews dont think like me. Thank the Lord you have come on this board as the Messiah come to protect the masses from this bad Jew and to educate the world on what a good Jew would be.

Your need to respond yet a third time and lecture me and others as to what a good Jew is (one who disagrees with me) and who a bad Jew is (me) is precisely what I challenged and challenge.

Never once have I claimed to speak for anyone but myself.

Your need to take my ethnicity and throw it out as an example of a bad Jew is blatant and its a classic example of a personal attack against me and using the Jew card to do it.

Your pathetic tactic is to pull the "some of my best friends are anti Zionist Jew and therefore good Jews card to engage in a personal attack against me is pathetic.

You hide behind alleged anti Zionist Jews you create to personally attack me and you throw in the Jew as part of the attack.

My ethnicity is no more relevant to my opinions than yours is. The fact you keep trying to negate me not just as a person, but as a Jew speaks for itself.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Rue

[Rue]

It's time for a one state solution. Back to when Muslims, Christians and Jews all lived

Say now never heard that before. Yes the good old days when Jews and Christians knew their place as second class khafir and dhimmi.

Uh hello everyone knows you wish to rid the world of Israelis and for that matter Jews who wont live in Musim states as dhimmi. Got it.

Move on.

[jacee]

Yes and you can repeat your worn semantic game of evading stating IT IS YOUR BELIEF NOT ISRAELS that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state. The question is not what Israel can be, its whether you are capable of accepting them as a Jewish state. You clearly can not otherwise you would not have repeated this ridiculous and pointless game of semantics to the extent you have of avoiding stating your OWN OPINION.

Your deflection from stating your own opinion is spent. Move on.

Repeat it all you want.

My opinion isn't relevant to Israel's choices.

How ridiculous.

.

[Hudson Jones]

Say now never heard that before. Yes the good old days when Jews and Christians knew their place as second class khafir and dhimmi.

Say now, aren't you so quick to shove your victim card in people's faces with your "victims 4EVA!" response. It's cute to see your sensitivity towards human suffering, only when the suffering is being endured by Jews, but when the Jews are doing it to another group of people, there is a new set of rules! it's A-OK!

I understand you prefer the status quo, which is treating the Arabs in Israel as second class citizens and those in the occupied territories even worse, but this is not sustainable.

[jbg]

_{Last night I had an interesting discussion * with a few friends* and veterans*, two* of which are of the Muslim faith. Neither of the Muslims* is a Palestinian terrorist and are quite rational and logical. As the conversation turned to the Middle East, the idea of a "measured", "equal" or "disproportionate" response was brought up.}

Great parody.

[jbg]

I do not know who is using the label "Rue" on this board - and I really do not want to know. He/she is expressing his/her opinion and purporting to be a Jew. I do not know if he/she is or not. Whatever, that individual does not speak for anybody else than that individual. Rue may be a Jew or may not, he/she could be a 15 yr old in a basement in Brooklyn or a Rabbi in Vancouver or a Zionist in Israel. I do not know and I do not care. He/she is an anonymous poster on an anonymous board. He/she has the right to express his/her point of view.

I do have a couple of friends who are Jews, I know them, their background, their education and their credibility. If I was seeking a Jewish reaction to issues that are brought up on this board then I ask them - and evaluate their opinions accordingly.

I am Jewish. Based on my familiarity with Jewish issues he reflects the views of many, though not all Jews.

I haven't met him personally but I have visited his website. I know him to be Jewish.

[jacee]

Uh hello everyone knows you wish to rid the world of Israelis and for that matter Jews who wont live in Musim states as dhimmi

Oh fercrissakes rue.

You want me to yell

YES!! GET RID OF ALL THE JEWS!!

MAYBE THEN RUE WILL SHUT UP HIS INFERNAL PATHETIC WHINING!!! ... ?

But of course that's just what your sorry perennial victim ass wants.

I say again: You are not all Jews. You are only one sad example, and you do not represent your people well because you claim a reaction to you is a reaction to all Jews ... and you irritate and incite disgust.

So ... I'm putting you on ignore because you represent no one but yourself, and so I won't have to scroll and scroll and scroll past your posts.

.

[dre]

Jewish state. The question is not what Israel can be, its whether you are capable of accepting them as a Jewish state.

This question is not relevant. What matters is whether or not people accept the right of Israelis to have a state, and to excersize sovereignty over their internationally recognized territory. The religious character of that state is nobodies business but Israelis. Theres no need for anyone else to make any statements regarding this.

[Big Guy]

To jbg - I guess I am supposed to believe you that you are a Jew and you can vouch for Rue that he is also a Jew. I really do not care and it makes no difference to me. I am glad that you have many Jewish friends who share the same views this Rue avatar posts here. I guess we move in very different circles since none of the Jewish friends that I have share the same views as the person using the Rue avatar.

You say that this "Rue" has his own website. Perhaps you or he could post it here so that those interested in his views could go right to the source instead of having to read his opinions here.

That might allow you and those of his ilk to be more comfortable of your position.

[jbg]

ass wants.

I say again: You are not all Jews. You are only one sad example, and you do not represent your people well because you claim a reaction to you is a reaction to all Jews ... and you irritate and incite disgust.

So ... I'm putting you on ignore because you represent no one but yourself, and so I won't have to scroll and scroll and scroll past your posts.

You are ducking the issue; the right of the Jews to have a Jewish state. For Chrissakes, why are the Palestinians or the Poles for that matter entitled to national self-determination but not the Jews?

[jbg]

You say that this "Rue" has his own website. Perhaps you or he could post it here so that those interested in his views could go right to the source instead of having to read his opinions here.

That might allow you and those of his ilk to be more comfortable of your position.

It's a professional website. We are both in the same profession. And no I will not out him or any person whose real name I learn. Even ones who I fight with.

That is simply not a decent way to behave.

[jacee]

You are ducking the issue; the right of the Jews to have a Jewish state. For Chrissakes, why are the Palestinians or the Poles for that matter entitled to national self-determination but not the Jews?

Israel is not a Jewish state unless I say so?

This is beyond ridiculous.

.

[marcus]

You are ducking the issue; the right of the Jews to have a Jewish state. For Chrissakes, why are the Palestinians or the Poles for that matter entitled to national self-determination but not the Jews?

Why are you still whining about some form of existence? What's wrong with you?

Why is there always some stupid, baseless argument to go into the "Forever a victim of something" mode, whenever someone points to the obvious? A Palestinian State does not exist. Israel already exists - Mind you, Israel has never defined its borders as it's still hanging onto the dream of "Greater Israel", BUT IT EXISTS.

[jbg]

Israel is not a Jewish state unless I say so?

This is beyond ridiculous.

Not if the negotiating demands of the Arabs are met. They wish to be able to flood Israel with the descendants of Arab refugees so as to swamp Israel's Jewish population.

Why are you still whining about some form of existence? What's wrong with you?

Why is there always some stupid, baseless argument to go into the "Forever a victim of something" mode, whenever someone points to the obvious? A Palestinian State does not exist. Israel already exists - Mind you, Israel has never defined its borders as it's still hanging onto the dream of "Greater Israel", BUT IT EXISTS.

Under whatever handle iteration you choose, you take dead aim at Israel's existence as a Jewish state.

[marcus]

Under whatever handle iteration you choose, you take dead aim at Israel's existence as a Jewish state.

Your words have no meaning and your complaining does not make sense.

Israel already exists. What doesn't exist is a Palestinian State. Israel and people like you are fighting tooth and nail to make sure it never does.

Shame on you and your dishonest and disingenuous display.

[jbg]

Your words have no meaning and your complaining does not make sense.

Israel already exists. What doesn't exist is a Palestinian State. Israel and people like you are fighting tooth and nail to make sure it never does.

Shame on you and your dishonest and disingenuous display.

Shame on you for not admitting what the results of an Arab right of return would be.

[Rue]

Before Jacee responded to me a second time personally attacking and insulting me she stated:

"My opinion is not relevant to Israel's choices. How ridiculous."

Neither I, nor JBG said it was. What we both have stated directly to Jacee is that she claimed we misrepresented her when we said she does not recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

She made her opinion relevant by accusing us of misrepresenting her position.

We both have asked her to correct our misrepresentation by stating she does recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state and she has refused to do so and in fact repeatedly engaged in responses to not say she believes in Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state to the point now where she tacked me and now hides from me by using the tactic of turning me off from response.

It is my contention Jacee can not come on this forum and demonstrated she will never acknowledge she believes Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state. What she does do is insult, engage in personal attacks, engage in raising issues no one raised to avoid proving we misrepresented her.

The issue was quite simple. If we misrepresented her position all she had to do is say,"I recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state." Then I would be glad to acknowledge that. She won't and the latest exchange speaks for itself.

As for the attacks on me personally about being a bad Jew from Bad Guy and now from Jacee and trying to suggest I claim I speak for other Jews in my responses speaks for itself.

At no time have I ever claimed I speak for any Jew but myself. I would go so far as to say I do have things in common with other Jews who believe in the right of Jews to have an Israeli state but I have never suggested I speak for anyone else. I in fact repeatedly have said I do not.

I have had open debates with JBG a fellow Zionist on this forum. The people who believe Jews have a right to exist as a state, as we do have a wie range of opinions and approaches. We do not claim to speak for each other. I sure as hell do though, defend the memory of holocaust survivors or any Israeli's right to exist in a Jewish state.

Now I will not respond to Hudson Jones' response because its an attempt to bait. At no time have I presented myself as a victim or any Jew as a victim.

We are anything but victims. In fact it is because we do not play the role of victims we find the kinds of responses we get from Bug Guy,Jacee, Hudson Jones, raising our Jewishness in a manner to try suggest the Jews that agree with them are good, and the ones like us, i.e., me and JBG are bad and can't possibly be Jews.

Yah we, that is JBG and I get it. Oh we get it. Its called trying to misappropriate our Jewish identity and try tell us what our place is, what a good Jew is and a good Jew must think and be friends with Big Guy, etc.

We are anything but victims. We come on this board and exercise our empowerment, our freedom, or equality through our words and through our support of a Jewish state. It is the very reason we are not victims and will not ever again be second class citizens called dhimmi in the Muslim world or second class in Europe.We have taken our place as a nation among nations and if Hudson Jones can't handle the fact we won't stay down and unequal, too too bad.Lol.

One last thing. Once again in response to me we see this response that the expression of Israel as a Jewish nation is a religious choice, a religious exercise.

No its not. I repeat again to the people who attack Zionism and are too lazy to find out what it means. Creating Israel as a Jewish state, put into application the concept of a Jew as a national identity. It has nothing to do with exercising Jewish religion. This is precisely why the Jewish state allows Christians, Musims, ultra-orthodox Jews who do not believe Israel should be a state, and orthodox Jews, all can opt out of state laws when it comes to family laws. It treats them all the same.

The identity of a Jew, is a national one no different than how Italians who do not live in Italy choose to self identity as Italian or the same with the Irish, Japanese, Belgians, Germans, Chinese, and over 135 other ethnic groups who have laws of return to their ancestral countries no different that Israel is with Jews.

What this is about as can be clearly seen in the responses of Marcus, Jacee and Hudson Jones, is their sheer anger at me for not knowing my place and daring to tell them I know my place and its not as a stateless Jew.

Hudson Jones accuses me of preferring to treat Palestinians as second class citizens and those in the Occupied Territories as worse.

I have never stated that at any time but it is a classic example of Hudson Jones presenting opinions I never stated. In so doing he does what he has always done on this board in response to me and ironically spent over 10 posts accusing me of doing to him.

The difference is, I have quoted each and every word he has written to back up my challenges as to what he actually said. He will not.

I now ask Hudson Jones to provide the words I stated where I called for Palestinians to be treated as second class or badly. He can not produce them because he knows they do not exist and never did.

Its what he does, throw out baseless allegations passing them off as debate.

Throwing out personal attacks, accusations with no basis, is not debating-it shows exactly what I have argued from day one with Hudson Jones-his agenda and the agenda of Marcus and Jacee is to present insults and one sided allegations against Israel, period.

For them I would contend this board is simply a stage that enables them to piss on Israel and they can not stand it when I challenge them to the point they threw the Jew card at me.

That does not victimize me, it simply strips them of any credibility.

Now since Jacee has made it a point to throw the Jewish identity of mine at me, how about she and Marcus, and Hudson Jones, and Big Guy all explain what their religions and ethnicity are and how its relevant to their positions.

They won't. They hold me to a standard they won't hold themselves to just as they demonize Jews for thinking we have a fight to a state, but in the same breath would never criticize Muslim or Christian states.

[jbg]

I now ask Hudson Jones to provide the words I stated where I called for Palestinians to be treated as second class or badly. He can not produce them because he knows they do not exist and never did.

I have stated and will continue to state that when the "Palestinians" place themselves in a position of warfare with the State of Israel, or Jewish or Western interests outside of the State of Israel they will be treated as combatants.

They won't. They hold me to a standard they won't hold themselves to just as they demonize Jews for thinking we have a fight to a state, but in the same breath would never criticize Muslim or Christian states.

That is one of the reasons that many Jews believe (I am one of them but cannot speak for Rue) that anti-Israeli positions are often disguises for anti-Judaism.

[GostHacked]

Shame on you for not admitting what the results of an Arab right of return would be.

We already see what results from Jewish right of return.

I cannot understand why so many people hate us Jews. It doesn't make any sense to me. To be Jewish is a beautiful thing yet so many here wish to twist and distort that beauty into something I cannot recognize.

How many of us here hate Jews?

[jbg]

We already see what results from Jewish right of return.

We have a Jewish state where the desert blooms and is a hi-tech center. Do you use a cellphone?

[GostHacked]

We have a Jewish state where the desert blooms and is a hi-tech center. Do you use a cellphone?

What is the relevance to the right of return for Jews?

[jbg]

What is the relevance to the right of return for Jews?

You wouldn't have that without a Jewish right of return.

[marcus]

You wouldn't have that without a Jewish right of return.

You are saying that cellphones could not be made if Europeans Jews did not colonize Palestine?

[Rue]

I am not sure Capt. Canada Ghost is capable of understanding your last comment. Its like trying to explain hunger to a fat man. Until you strip him of the very things he takes for granted, he won't get it.