Israel's war crimes in Gaza

[dre]

I agree, it is a little silly to wonder why, because why is obvious. The UN General Assembly and the Human Rights Council are both bodies dominated by large numbers of Muslim and third world nations, who all implicitly hate Israel, and the one thing their majority can agree on most of the time is that Israel is evil and to issue yet another condemnation. The security council, the one UN organ not dominated by Muslim and third world nations, does not excessively focus on Israel, and that should also tell you something.

Almost no country on earth approves of Israels behavior. Its not just muslim countries or African countries. The problem with your thesis here about "hordes of muslim and third world nations in the UNGA and UNHRC", is that its just demonstrably bogus.

226 of those resolutions have come from the UNSC. And while there is sometimes a small member of non-permanent Muslim or African countres on the UNSC most of these resolutions have been supported mostly by non muslim, and more industrialized nations.

You can keep telling yourself its some big anti-jewish conspiracy if you like.. have fun with that.

Incorrect. The UN tried to partition it. The partition plan was rejected by the Arabs, who invaded the fledgling state of Israel. In Israel's war of independence they stopped the aggressors and officially formed the state, with borders very different from those proposed in the partition plan. People keep saying the UN "created Israel", but it's just objectively wrong if you look at the historical facts. Israel was formed in the same way as almost every other state on this planet: through warfare.

You didnt address my point... Its gone on for 70 years... Thats a long time for resolutions to pile up.

[Bonam]

Almost no country on earth approves of Israels behavior. Its not just muslim countries or African countries. The problem with your thesis here about "hordes of muslim and third world nations in the UNGA and UNHRC", is that its just demonstrably bogus.

226 of those resolutions have come from the UNSC. And while there is sometimes a small member of non-permanent Muslim or African countres on the UNSC most of these resolutions have been supported mostly by non muslim, and more industrialized nations.

If you look at UNSC resolutions, they are a lot closer to what I might call balanced. There are some resolutions regarding Israel, as one might expect, but there are also plenty of resolutions regarding situations in other areas. Don't take my word for it, go look through the resolutions here, say for the last 5 years:

http://www.un.org/en/sc/documents/resolutions/

In comparison, if you look at the resolutions coming out of the UNHRC the skew there is clear, with Israel being almost the only topic of discussion (this skewness is also prevalent if you look at the UNGA)

You didnt address my point... Its gone on for 70 years... Thats a long time for resolutions to pile up.

You don't have to add up the total for 70 years. Look at any one given year. Consider for example 2013: 21 resolutions by the UNGA against Israel, 4 against other countries everywhere else in the world.

Considering all the stuff that went on in 2013 in the Middle East, Asia, and Africa, I really don't know what to tell you if you think that condemning Israel 5 times more often than all other countries in the world combined in that year is fair and balanced.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Bonam

[GostHacked]

Israel's lap dog, the USA, has always been there to help with vetoing the resolutions.

[Rue]

Almost no country on earth approves of Israels behavior.

You can keep telling yourself its some big anti-jewish conspiracy if you like.. have fun with that.

So if its Israel state policies you disagree with why do you slur all people living in Israel in the first sentence and why are you projecting on to Bonam he references Jews as you do when allegedly discussing Israeli state policies?

If you are criticizing Israeli state policies why are you raising a ridiculous reference to an anti Jewish conspiracy?

Aren't you the same person who denies people come on this board and under the pretext of criticizing Israeli state policies attack Jews? So why do it?

What the hell does anti Jewish conspiracy mean? Do you even know?

Why do you think Bonam does not know the difference between a Jew and Israeli state policies and interchanges the two words...why because you do?

Why do you project your need to attack Jews when discussing Israeli government policies onto Bonam?

If you are questioning Israeli state policie stop slurring Jews and Israelis.

You are again engage in the very exercise you deny takes place on this forum.

Yah I know Jews.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Rue

[dre]

So if its Israel state policies you disagree with why do you slur all people living in Israel in the first sentence and why are you projecting on to Bonam he references Jews as you do when allegedly discussing Israeli state policies?

If you are criticizing Israeli state policies why are you raising a ridiculous reference to an anti Jewish conspiracy?

Aren't you the same person who denies people come on this board and under the pretext of criticizing Israeli state policies attack Jews? So why do it?

What the hell does anti Jewish conspiracy mean? Do you even know?

Why do you think Bonam does not know the difference between a Jew and Israeli state policies and interchanges the two words...why because you do?

Why do you project your need to attack Jews when discussing Israeli government policies onto Bonam?

If you are questioning Israeli state policie stop slurring Jews and Israelis.

You are again engage in the very exercise you deny takes place on this forum.

Yah I know Jews.

Rue! Wheres your paragraphs! You were doing so well. Use your big boy writing again!

If you are questioning Israeli state policie stop slurring Jews and Israelis.

I didnt. I slurred the region... Im not a fan of the middle east, sue me. And I slurred the people killing eachother on both sides. Stop jumping up and down screaming IM A VICTIM!!!! IM A VICTIM!!! for at least long enough to read the posts.

Edited February 3, 2015 by dre

[jacee]

Jacee once again you come on this forum calling names. This alleged hero worshipping of Israel you did prior to 2008, is that a fact or is it part of the subjective fantasy that suspends any acknowledgement of anything other than demon Israel to blame for the Middle East conflicts?

Family members fought that war against bigotry and genocide. I guess we all naively hoped that Israel would be a happy-ever-after story for holocaust survivors.

Nobody anticipated that Israel would become a perpetrator of genocide against Arabs who lived there too.

Brutality is brutality, and sympathy doesn't last through that.

Why would you even refer to a subjective bias you had prior to 2008 to justify another bias after 2008? All you did as once again explain how you structure your opinions into subjective biases and now as you have said, swing from one subjective generalization to another.

Don't we all? lol

Its what you do. Come on the board and admit blatantly you think in subjective generalizations. You don't take the time to rephrase political issues into complex cause and effect events, no just bad and good guys and as long as you have a bad guy, presto its all easy, just trot out the name calling-badbad bad Israel. Bad bad poo pooo kaka Israel. Yes that's the way to debate. Name calling. That shares solutions that will bring about peace. Thanks.

"poopookaka" ... now that really contributes to raising the level of discussion.

By the way you need to go look at the latest decision the ICC rendered on the civil war in Yugoslavia and the parties that engaged in war crimes there.

Go on. Go find out what the ICC did. You live in a dream land oblivious to how that court works and why it just rendered the decision it did.

In your world, the ICC will come like a knight on a white horse and slew the world of the poo poo kaka kaka Israel.

Dream on.

It's all a process.

.

[Rue]

Rue! Wheres your paragraphs! You were doing so well. Use your big boy writing again!

I didnt. I slurred the region... Im not a fan of the middle east, sue me. And I slurred the people killing eachother on both sides. Stop jumping up and down screaming IM A VICTIM!!!! IM A VICTIM!!! for at least long enough to read the posts.

The attempt to insult and bait by calling me names and falsely accuse me of claiming I am a victim of your words speaks for itself.

So does the fact you then in your second response you first try to sugest Jews are a region then claim to have slurred the people killing each other on both sides when you in fact only singled out Jews and Israelis.

Your responses clearly demonstrate a total lack of credibility as well as your decision to use this forum and such threads to try name call, bait, make false accusations and slur both Jews and Israelis using the pretext of a discussion on Israeli state policies to do so.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Rue

[dre]

The attempt to insult and bait by calling me names.The attempt to insult and bait by calling me names.

Theres that victim card again! What name did I call you Rue? Please do tell (good luck with that)

So does the fact you then in your second response you first try to sugest Jews are a region

I never said anything remotely like that. No exactly hooked on phonix eh?

when you in fact only singled out Jews and Israelis.

In your whimsical magical little imaginary world I might have done that... But in this one I did nothing of the sort.

make false accusations and slur both Jews and Israelis using the pretext of a discussion on Israeli state policies to do so.

Nice! And here we have the oft played "anti-semite" card! . Problem is I didnt slur jews in any way shape or form. Go ahead... quote where I did (good luck with that)

On the bright side!!! That post had paragraphs again! Nice job little buddy (pats head)

Edited February 4, 2015 by dre

[Rue]

1- I guess we all naively hoped that Israel would be a happy-ever-after story for holocaust survivors.

2-Nobody anticipated that Israel would become a perpetrator of genocide against Arabs who lived there too.

In response to 1, you use the word "we". The use of the word "we" I would argue shows you need to inflate yourself into a plural when responding.

That I would argue is a primal defence response as identfied by Jane Goodall in her study of apes and chimps and has been noted in baboons, humans and other primates who inflate and puff up to make themselves look bigger when they feel threatened.

In this case might I suggest you stop inflating yourself from I to we. You speak only for yourself and I am not threatening you simply because I dismiss your comments.

The holocaust survivors I know and lived with in Israel never expected a happy ever after story.

You need to take the time to stop sometimes Jacee and give it a bit of thought before you respond.

You are talking about people who were tortured and treated in every hellish way possible, tatooed, have no idea why it is they escaped death and then after surviving hell and feeling guilty for so doing, full of teror and trauma, injured, maimed, then found themselves again imprisoned,s pit at, shot at, murdered, while desperately trying to get to Palestine and then once there subject to continuous attacks from Arabs and the British.

What would possess you to think anyone who survived the holocaust and then ran that gauntlet was dream of happily ever after? Are you truly that ignorant of what holocaust survivors went through ir is that deliberate hatefullness you express?

Again I ask, what fantasy world do you live un where you project on those who went to Israel and survided the holocaust this childish romantic notion that they were looking for happily ever after? Look how you projected that assumption. Read your words back. You presume to know and speak on behalf of holocaust survivors. Hellow You are not a we, you do not speak for holocaust survivors or anyone but yourself.

No holocaust survivor dreamed if happily ever after. Go speak to just one. Can you do that or will you choose to remain so ignorant?

There's is a story of survival-a story of people who chose life to prevent others from suffering as they did. That isn't happily ever after. That is someone, a person, living already with a dead soul, a mind that can not dream sweet things but it is a mind that swore to live long enough to have children to bare witness so tht such things would not happen again.

You are someone I wish I could take to concentration camp, then speak to the survivors,see their mutilated bodies and tatoos, then find out what they faced in the camps and how they felt and what they faced when they got out and when they went to Israel.

You know nothing of what they went through. You do not know what it means to have to pick up a gun after all that and again defend your right to live over and over.

You demonize these holocaust survivors for choosing to live as Israelis.

Your hatred is no better than those who demonize Palestinians who want a country.

You accuse me of blaming Gaza citizens of their plight which I have never done, and now you do the exact same thing with not just Israelis but holocaust survivors.

Of all the people on this forum, I do care what you think. I think you are still far too young to be so hateful. I expect it from the others, not you.

You can personally attack me all you want but I have held a gun, I have witnessed death, I have witnessed terrorism. It did not make me a demon anymore then it made my relatives demons for surviving the terrors they went through. We are not demons. We are humans who said we will survive nto because we hate gentiles or Arabs or Muslims but because we bare witness to those gentiles, Arabs and Muslims and fellow Jews who just like us believe terror is not the way, mutual respect and peace is.

You think I am a monster for choosing life as a free man? Lol. Could be.

As for your second comment in 2, you use holocaust inversion and so of course accuse all the people of Israel of engaging in genocide.

[Rue]

1-Theres that victim card again! What name did I call you Rue? Please do tell (good luck with that)

2- Problem is I didnt slur jews in any way shape or form. Go ahead... quote where I did (good luck with that)

On the bright side!!! That post had paragraphs again! Nice job little buddy (pats head)

1-You want to continue with the little buddy and big boy references go ahead. I am sure its fun for you Lol, its interesting how quick you deny your childish comments then spit them out again. A goo goo gaga back to you I suppose is what you now want. There you have it.

In regards to 2, deny all you want. Your projection as to Bonam's words with the words; "You can keep telling yourself its some big anti-jewish conspiracy if you like.. have fun with that." speaks for itself.

As for this latest denial that you continue to repeat " I slurred the region". You may have as well but you slurred Jews. In response to Bonam questioning the UN's impartiality on the sheer volume and content of its resolutions against Israel you decided to turn that into a Jew bait with the comment back to Bonam

" You can keep telling yourself its some big anti Jewish conspiracy if you like....have fun with that."

Bonam never stated or suggested any anti Jewish conspiracy you did. You threw it in and projected it on him. Its what I have come to expect from you, a couched Jew baiting reference that you then deny.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Rue

[dre]

1-You want to continue with the little buddy and big boy references go ahead. I am sure its fun for you Lol, its interesting how quick you deny your childish comments then spit them out again. A goo goo gaga back to you I suppose is what you now want. There you have it.

In regards to 2, deny all you want. Your projection as to Bonam's words with the words; "You can keep telling yourself its some big anti-jewish conspiracy if you like.. have fun with that." speaks for itself.

As for this latest denial that you continue to repeat " I slurred the region". You may have as well but you slurred Jews. In response to Bonam questioning the UN's impartiality on the sheer volume and content of its resolutions against Israel you decided to turn that into a Jew bait with the comment back to Bonam

" You can keep telling yourself its some big anti Jewish conspiracy if you like....have fun with that."

Bonam never stated or suggested any anti Jewish conspiracy you did. You threw it in and projected it on him. Its what I have come to expect from you, a couched Jew baiting reference that you then deny.

So to so sum things up... You have nothing to back up either your accusations of name-calling or your accusation that I made slurs against jews. Huge suprise!

[jacee]

In response to 1, you use the word "we". The use of the word "we" I would argue shows you need to inflate yourself into a plural when responding.

That I would argue is a primal defence response as identfied by Jane Goodall in her study of apes and chimps and has been noted in baboons, humans and other primates who inflate and puff up to make themselves look bigger when they feel threatened.

In this case might I suggest you stop inflating yourself from I to we. You speak only for yourself and I am not threatening you simply because I dismiss your comments.

The holocaust survivors I know and lived with in Israel never expected a happy ever after story.

You need to take the time to stop sometimes Jacee and give it a bit of thought before you respond.

You are talking about people who were tortured and treated in every hellish way possible, tatooed, have no idea why it is they escaped death and then after surviving hell and feeling guilty for so doing, full of teror and trauma, injured, maimed, then found themselves again imprisoned,s pit at, shot at, murdered, while desperately trying to get to Palestine and then once there subject to continuous attacks from Arabs and the British.

What would possess you to think anyone who survived the holocaust and then ran that gauntlet was dream of happily ever after? Are you truly that ignorant of what holocaust survivors went through ir is that deliberate hatefullness you express?

Again I ask, what fantasy world do you live un where you project on those who went to Israel and survided the holocaust this childish romantic notion that they were looking for happily ever after? Look how you projected that assumption. Read your words back. You presume to know and speak on behalf of holocaust survivors. Hellow You are not a we, you do not speak for holocaust survivors or anyone but yourself.

No holocaust survivor dreamed if happily ever after. Go speak to just one. Can you do that or will you choose to remain so ignorant?

There's is a story of survival-a story of people who chose life to prevent others from suffering as they did. That isn't happily ever after. That is someone, a person, living already with a dead soul, a mind that can not dream sweet things but it is a mind that swore to live long enough to have children to bare witness so tht such things would not happen again.

You are someone I wish I could take to concentration camp, then speak to the survivors,see their mutilated bodies and tatoos, then find out what they faced in the camps and how they felt and what they faced when they got out and when they went to Israel.

You know nothing of what they went through. You do not know what it means to have to pick up a gun after all that and again defend your right to live over and over.

You demonize these holocaust survivors for choosing to live as Israelis.

Your hatred is no better than those who demonize Palestinians who want a country.

You accuse me of blaming Gaza citizens of their plight which I have never done, and now you do the exact same thing with not just Israelis but holocaust survivors.

Of all the people on this forum, I do care what you think. I think you are still far too young to be so hateful. I expect it from the others, not you.

You can personally attack me all you want but I have held a gun, I have witnessed death, I have witnessed terrorism. It did not make me a demon anymore then it made my relatives demons for surviving the terrors they went through. We are not demons. We are humans who said we will survive nto because we hate gentiles or Arabs or Muslims but because we bare witness to those gentiles, Arabs and Muslims and fellow Jews who just like us believe terror is not the way, mutual respect and peace is.

You think I am a monster for choosing life as a free man? Lol. Could be.

As for your second comment in 2, you use holocaust inversion and so of course accuse all the people of Israel of engaging in genocide.

If Israel doesn't want to be accused and convicted, Israel sshouldn't murder hundreds of children.

Enduring genocide does not give Israelis a free pass to commit genocide.

.

[Hudson Jones]

Typical Zionist apologists - continue with the same misinformation and lies they have been peppering us for decades, trying to suffocate the truth. Their b.s. has very little weight anymore. Their attempt to discredit all of the UN resolutions by falsely saying that they are supported by only Muslim/Arab States is another one of the lies that most do not believe anymore - Not only are these UN resolutions are supported by majority of the countries in the world, but to insinuate that all Arab/Muslim states are not credible, shows the bigotry that consumes Zionists.

The evidence of Israel's crimes and violations of law is indefensible. Not only are there numerous UN resolutions, but there are several independent fact finding missions showing and outlining Israel's violations. There is also the ICJ ruling which outlines Israel's violations of international law when it comes to the occupation, the illegal wall that cuts deep into the Palestinian territory, the illegal settlements and the annexation of East Jerusalem.

[Bonam]

As for your second comment in 2, you use holocaust inversion and so of course accuse all the people of Israel of engaging in genocide.

It's a funny kind of genocide when the population in Gaza and the West Bank keeps increasing at one of the fastest rates of any group on Earth

Edited February 4, 2015 by Bonam

[marcus]

It's a funny kind of genocide when the population in Gaza and the West Bank keeps increasing at one of the fastest rates of any group on Earth

?

I am not sure if your response and behaviour is psychopathic or you're in some major denial. The last time Israel attacked Gaza, they killed over 1400 civilians, with over 500 of them children. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands who have been physically and mentally injured for life. Early reports are indicating, as we see in the original post, that Israel has again, committed war crimes. Just like 2 years before and the 2 years before that.

Is this not enough human suffering for you? Israel is not killing at a high enough rate to bring down the population growth? I am curious as to why you are lacking empathy. Even when the facts and the truth are spoon fed to you, you resist to break away from the conditioning that you grew up with and continue to consume yourself with. Is there any hope for a person like you, or will you stay this way for the rest of your life, until you die and lucky for mankind, as the trend continues, another Liberal Zionist will not replace you.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Michael Hardner
Large Image Removed

[Rue]

To sum up Dre, you responded to a debate point about the UN being bias in its treatment of Israel, by projecting on to Bonam a reference to an anti Jewish conspiracy, then you have tried to deny it and bait me with childish insults.

The more you respond to me Dre, the clearer it is you don't have the balls to back up our anti Jewish reference.

What a surprise.

[Big Guy]

Last night I had an interesting discussion with a few friends and veterans, two of which are of the Jewish faith. Neither of the Jews is a Zionist and are quite rational and logical. As the conversation turned to the Middle East, the idea of a "measured", "equal" or "disproportionate" response was brought up.

As regarding the Hamas shooting of wonky rockets into Israel, it was generally agreed that the Israeli response was way over the top, certainly not measured and certainly disproportionate. It was finally decided that an "equal" response would be more appropriate. It was decided that Israel should develop its own arsenal of wonky rockets and for every one going into Israel from Hamas, Israel would send one into Gaza.

It was pointed out that Gaza is far more densely populated than Israel so a Rocket For Rocket (RFR) policy would result in a lot more casualties in Gaza than in Israel. This RFR policy would negate the need for Israel to periodically invade Gaza and kill a few thousand civilians. With RFR, the two sides could kill one another off in fewer numbers.

Our group intends to share our RFR idea with Netanyahu when he visits Washington for his controversial speech. We have yet to figure out how we can get that important information to Netanyahu and that challenge is the first order of business in our next informal meeting in the members lounge in the Legion.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Big Guy

[Rue]

_{Last night I had an interesting discussion * with a few friends* and veterans*, two* of which are of the Muslim faith. Neither of the Muslims* is a Palestinian terrorist and are quite rational and logical. As the conversation turned to the Middle East, the idea of a "measured", "equal" or "disproportionate" response was brought up.}

_{As regarding the Hamas shooting of rockets into Israel, it was generally agreed that the Israeli response was understandable, certainly measured and certainly proportionate. It was quickly agreed without hestitation hat an "equal" response by Israel would not be more appropriate. It was decided that Israel should not like Hamas use its citizens as shields and delieberately place them in the direct line of fire to die so that their deaths could be broadcast on the news as propaganda. Unlike Hamas it was agreed that Israel should not do what Hamas does using either its citizens as shields to die, or to deliberately target Palestinian civilians with death as Hamas constitution calls for it to do not just with its own citizens and Israelis, but Jews world-wide.}

_{It was pointed out that Israels population is as densely situated as in Gaza as its civilian centres are not spread all over the counrtry but condensed into pockets as they there in Gaza due to the desert and security issues and so that the Hamas policy of shooting rockets at civilians in Israel results in not just casualties but requires the countrys airport and economy shut down as well as sending tpeople to shelters and so the notion that the actual number of people killed in rocket deaths is the only way to measure the damage done would be idiotic not just absurd since it would be but one factor in examining how such rocket fire causes damage to Israel let alone Palestinians.}

_{This Hamas policy based on its constitution calling for the violent take over of Israel and turning it into a Muslim state and that calls for the death of Jews world wide because of the belief that Islamic religion calls for this cleansing of the world of Jews makes it impossible for Israel to live in peace with the civilians of Gaza as it once did before Hamas chose to start their campaign to attack Israel continually shooting rockets into Israel, as well as sending in terrorists and using the money alloted for food and foreign aid for the citizens to build tunnels to try smuggle in terrorists to kill Israeli civilians.}

_{If the Palestinians could find a way to rid themselves of terrorists including Hamas. the two sides (Israel and Palestine) would no longer have to watch each other get killed.}

_{Our group does not intend to share our thoughts with the Muslim Brotherhood, the founder of Hamas, when they visit Washington again because we know they don't give a damn and neither does Obama.}

_{We didnt need to figure out because its made known by them, that the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, Iran, Fatah, the Palestinian Authority, Islamic Jihad, Palestine Intifada, the Popular Front For the Liberation of Palestine, are all dedicated to a Muslim state in Gaza, the West Bank, Jordan and Israel and have made it clear they will never recognize the right of Jews to have a Jewish state, let alone Israel as a Jewish state.}

_{*my story is subject to the same verification test for authencity as Big Guys and I propose we both present or veterans, Muslims and non Zionists at a press conference}

_{also please note: any notion the Muslims were rational because they were NOT terrorists is as coincidental as are the Jews in Big Guys story being rational and logical and not being Zionists}

_{A Rue Poem by Ben Gurion}

_{The world is rational when I decide it is you know}

_{cuz Judy Garland will tell me so}

_{those flying monkeys have sure caused a situation}

_{but they sure aint entitled to their own nation}

_{as for the Wicked Witch of the West}

_{she was an evil Zionest}

_{and one last thing about that Cowardly Lion}

_{it figures he is the symbol of Zion}

_{and now I lay me down to sleep}

_{and hope that Rue that Zionist creep}

_{stops writing poems that call into question}

_{the wisdom of my anti Zionist confession}

Edited February 12, 2015 by Rue

[jacee]

Funny Rue. haha. :/

Last night I had an interesting discussion with a few friends and veterans, two of which are of the Jewish faith. Neither of the Jews is a Zionist and are quite rational and logical. As the conversation turned to the Middle East, the idea of a "measured", "equal" or "disproportionate" response was brought up.

As regarding the Hamas shooting of wonky rockets into Israel, it was generally agreed that the Israeli response was way over the top, certainly not measured and certainly disproportionate. It was finally decided that an "equal" response would be more appropriate. It was decided that Israel should develop its own arsenal of wonky rockets and for every one going into Israel from Hamas, Israel would send one into Gaza.

It was pointed out that Gaza is far more densely populated than Israel so a Rocket For Rocket (RFR) policy would result in a lot more casualties in Gaza than in Israel. This RFR policy would negate the need for Israel to periodically invade Gaza and kill a few thousand civilians. With RFR, the two sides could kill one another off in fewer numbers.

Our group intends to share our RFR idea with Netanyahu when he visits Washington for his controversial speech. We have yet to figure out how we can get that important information to Netanyahu and that challenge is the first order of business in our next informal meeting in the members lounge in the Legion.

I know many Canadian Jews are opposed to Israel's disproportionate responses against Gaza.

They picketed and occupied the Israeli consulate in Toronto in 2008 and protested in Montreal last summer.

http://montreal.mediacoop.ca/newsrelease/31370

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/jews-stage-massive-anti-war-protests-tel-aviv-new-york-elsewhere.html

Edited February 12, 2015 by jacee

[Big Guy]

I do not know who is using the label "Rue" on this board - and I really do not want to know. He/she is expressing his/her opinion and purporting to be a Jew. I do not know if he/she is or not. Whatever, that individual does not speak for anybody else than that individual. Rue may be a Jew or may not, he/she could be a 15 yr old in a basement in Brooklyn or a Rabbi in Vancouver or a Zionist in Israel. I do not know and I do not care. He/she is an anonymous poster on an anonymous board. He/she has the right to express his/her point of view.

I do have a couple of friends who are Jews, I know them, their background, their education and their credibility. If I was seeking a Jewish reaction to issues that are brought up on this board then I ask them - and evaluate their opinions accordingly.

Do not make the mistake that someone who has extensive knowledge of and credibility of opinion on Jewish issues would be posting anonymously on an anonymous board and pretending to represent the Jewish point of view. My Jewish friends do not share the same views as this Rue avatar, self appointed spokesman for Israeli Jews. This Rue speaks for Rue and certainly NOT for my Jewish friends.

That is why I generally do not comment on this posters opinions because I have read his/her early opinions, reactions to other posters criticisms and feel he/she has nothing new and/or valid to offer. Therefore, I really do not care what he/she thinks.

My friends who are Jewish are also more articulate, courteous, friendly and accurate than the Rue avatar and do not exhibit any potential psychological issues. I trust their opinion, I have no use for him/her using the Rue avatar.

[marcus]

_{ThisHamas policy based on its constitution calling for the violent take over of Israel and turning it into a Muslim state and the death of Jews world wide because of the belief that Islamic religion calls for this cleansing of the world of Jews makes it impossible for Israel to live in peace with the civilians of Gaza as it once did before Hamas chose to start their campaign to attack Israel continually shooting rockets into Israel, as well as sending in terrorists and using the money alloted for food and foreign aid for the citizens to build tunnels to try smuggle in terrorists to kill Israeli civilians.}

_{If the Palestinians could find a way to rid themselves of terrorists including Hamas. the two sides (Israel and Palestine) would no longer have to watch each other get killed.}

There is a solution to all of this:

It's time for a one state solution. Back to when Muslims, Christians and Jews all lived together. The failed experiment of Israel is not sustainable. The world has had enough of death and destruction and the b.s. narrative that the Zionists want to bully onto the world. The Zionists are beginning to understand this and the governments around the world can feel the pressure from the people around the world.

If Jews who didn’t live through the Holocaust still feel the pain of it, then take that up with the Germans. Demand a sizeable plot of land in Germany – and good luck to you.

"Israelis" who don’t want to share Palestine as equal citizens with the indigenous Palestinian population – the ones who don’t want to relinquish that which they demanded Palestinians relinquish 64 years ago – can take their second passports and go back home.

[Rue]

Big Guy your device of presenting non Zionist Jews to back your opinions speaks loudly. Its about as meaningful as my coming on this board and stating I have Muslim friends who support Israel and are against terrorism.

The fact you claim these people are Jews but anti Zionist not once but now twice, shows you are propping them in an exercise known as good Jew bad jew.

Its a stale tactic. A good Jew, a rational Jew is anti Zionist, people like me who defend Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, well we are irrational and as Jacee has claimed actually motivated to make Israel look bad right?

The tactic is over. Its stale, its lazy, its clumsy.

You want to come on this board and engage in anti Zionist rhetoric that is your right. Come on this board and use the good jew bad Jew tactic which has been used on this board so many times in the past I challenge it as meaningless.

Its as meaningless as me quoting anti terrorist pro Israel Muslims. Linking their ethnicity to their opinion as you have done is transparent.

Move on. Go use that some of my best friends are non Zionist Jews shtick on someone else. I find it a pathetic tactic.

Oh I get it. Tell me if someone came on this board and said they were Muslim and from Syria or the West Bank, and engage in the opinions you did, do you think people would say, well they think that way because they are Muslims? Well? You are the one who seems to think it is important to point out someone's religion when they express their opinion as if its relevant to the discussions on settling the Middle East conflict, so finish it.

Finish it. Since you need to point out that these people who agree with you are Jews, you obviously think linking one's religion to their opinion is important to know, so?

Oh come on now, finish it. Is it relevant that someone is Muslim when they have a political opinion on the Middle East, or is it just when its Jews, it makes a difference. How about Christians or Buddists or Hindus or Satanists or Wiccans, you have any of them as friends who express opinions on the Middle East and do you point out their religion?

Move on. The tactic is tired.

[Big Guy]

Rue, for the last time - I do not know you and from what I read of your postings, I do not wish to know you. What I have posted above was directed to other posters on this board who may not have many Jewish friends and mistakenly assume that you speak for more people than yourself. You do not.

My Jewish friends certainly do not share your views and when I have shown some of your postings to them, they have said some not very nice things about how you come across and how to interact with others through your posts. You certainly have the right to post them (within the parameters of the rules of this forum) and others have the right to read them - or not.

As to tactics - I have none because I need none. I am not in a battle or confrontation. To have a telephone disagreement one of the two has to pick up the phone. I am not taking your calls. You obviously have some strong views about Israel and good for you - they are your views and your views only.

As you have noticed, I am not commenting on your opinions - I am commenting on the fact that others should not feel that other Jews share your opinion.

[Big Guy]

The Israeli Supreme Court has absolved the Israeli army from the killing of Rachel Corrie during her protest against building of new settlements in Israel. Rachel was run over by a bulldozer operated by an Israeli soldier. The Supreme Court ruled it an "accident".

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/02/slain-activist-family-blasts-israeli-court-ruling-150213080936552.html

Rachel was an American citizen and there has yet to be a comment from the White House. It will be interesting if/when Rachel's case will looked at in the upcoming investigation by the International Criminal Court of Israeli war crimes in Gaza.

[jacee]

"people like me who defend Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, "

People like you ... And the rest of us.

To repeat again ... and again and again ...

Israel can be whatever kind of state it wants to be. Nobody else's business.