Keepitsimple Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Has he stuck his foot in his mouth again - or is this what Canada will look like under Justin Trudeau and his Neo-Liberals? No Military action ever again? Will the Backroom Boys be issuing "clarifications" or will they defend his statements? One thing we do know - it won't be Trudeau doing the talking. From Warren Kinsella's column today: Should Canada have participated in the First World War, when we weren’t contributing anything that our Allies didn’t already have?Should we have joined the fight against fascism in the Second World War – because we weren’t certain we would win?Silly questions, yes. But they will likely be asked, just the same, of Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau following a misstep in Southwestern Ontario this week – when he sat down with a London radio host, and expounded on his position on our efforts to combat the genocidal force that is ISIS. Trudeau goes on in a similar fashion, but he doesn’t ever extricate himself from the deep hole into which Lawton nudged him. That is, Canada shouldn’t ever take military action if (1) we aren’t sure we aren’t going to win and (2) if some other nation is already doing the sort of thing that we do.You don’t need to be a military historian to see the problem, here. The conditions Trudeau has imposed would render it impossible for Canada to participate in any military effort, ever. Because most of our allies, militarily, can do what we do. Because we aren’t ever completely certain we are always going to triumph Link: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/22/little-interview-big-problem Edited January 23, 2015 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
Shady Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 I don't think it's as much of a gaffe as it is a window into what he actually believes. I think he spoke the truth. Unfortunately for him. Quote
eyeball Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 It also opens a window on the typical Conservative's mind - they'll happily commit us to war at the drop of a hat for the flimsiest reasons. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Shady Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 It also opens a window on the typical Conservative's mind - they'll happily commit us to war at the drop of a hat for the flimsiest reasons. I'm not sure how him saying that means what you say. Quote
The_Squid Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Comparing the "war" on ISIS in Syria and Iraq to WWI and WWII is simply stupid and absurd. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 It also opens a window on the typical Conservative's mind - they'll happily commit us to war at the drop of a hat for the flimsiest reasons. Not sure what this means....Liberal "minds" sent Canadian Forces to "war" several times. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 I'm not sure how him saying that means what you say.It's the attempt and desire to make a big deal out of this that's most revealing. And it is a fact that Harper would have joyfully followed Bush into Iraq, he probably still chafes at our not going. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
PrimeNumber Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Comparing the "war" on ISIS in Syria and Iraq to WWI and WWII is simply stupid and absurd. This. Completely different conflicts. Go back in time and I support most military action in WWI and WWII, completely different reason for these conflicts to escalate the way they did. Iraq is a knee jerk reaction, to a knee jerk reaction that was unfounded in every way. I can confidently say that without involvement in WWII the world may be a very different place most positively for the worse. Without the original involvement in Iraq the world might easily be a better place especially in that region. Edited January 23, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
eyeball Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Not sure what this means....Liberal "minds" sent Canadian Forces to "war" several times.Yep, there's no shortage of stupid in Ottawa. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Shady Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 It's the attempt and desire to make a big deal out of this that's most revealing. And it is a fact that Harper would have joyfully followed Bush into Iraq, he probably still chafes at our not going. We don't know what Harper would've done. That's your opinion. Regardless, what Justin said, reveals stuff about Justin, nobody else. Quote
Big Guy Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I am not supporting the Liberals or getting into any "My guy is better than your guy" hostility pitching here. There is a history of wars in the past that were fought and won/lost for a variety of reasons. We are in a new era of technology, communications, guerilla warfare, non-nation based adversaries etc. The most modern military commander who has seen lots of war and conflict has published his conditions under which a country should go to war: The Powell Doctrine Colin Powell had fought in, directed successfully and analysed politically a few of the wars in which the USA has been involved. He has a message for others what he finds should be required for a country to go to war; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell_Doctrine The American and Canadian politicians have ignored his doctrine to their and our disadvantage and discredit. I hope that "Gotcha" journalism does not stifle discussion of this doctrine which sounds somewhat similar to what Trudeau has said. BTW When did we ever get into a war that we didn't think we could win? Why would any sane nation get involved in a war they did not think it could win? Edited January 23, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Derek 2.0 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Regardless, what Justin said, reveals stuff about Justin, nobody else. What it reveals more so to me, is that Trudeau’s opinion could be interpreted as saying he views our forces deployed in the Middle East as not contributing to the coalition and that he feels our efforts against ISIS will fail…….fore by deduction of the “Trudeau doctrine”, the Canadian Forces contribution could have been mimicked by others, likewise there is no 100% guarantee of success…….. I doubt any Prime Minister or leader of the Official Opposition, in all of Canadian history, has made such disparaging remarks well Canadian Forces were deployed overseas……of that I’m astounded. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Colin Powell had fought in, directed successfully and analysed politically a few of the wars in which the USA has been involved. He has a message for others what he finds should be required for a country to go to war; Non starter...this Colin Powell pitch has been tried before and again it is meaningless for Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 We don't know what Harper would've done. That's your opinion. Regardless, what Justin said, reveals stuff about Justin, nobody else. Yes we do know what Harper would have done, or at least we know what he said he wanted to do. However once again you could be right, you know the old one about how do you know when Harper is lieing? His lips are moving. Quote
PrimeNumber Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 I'm surprised anyone in the country even thinks there is any probability of success in any combat mission in the middle east, given the track records of everyone else who has tried and failed. The middle east is like the Hydra. Chop off one head and two more pop up. It's insane to just keep throwing money and bodies at a conflict with such little chance of success. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Relax...it's just populist BS to win votes for the next election. A PM Trudeau would be hard pressed to ignore Canadian obligations to NATO. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Derek 2.0 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Relax...it's just populist BS to win votes for the next election. A PM Trudeau would be hard pressed to ignore Canadian obligations to NATO. His father had no problem doing so, so much so, was threatened with economic sanctions by several European NATO members in the mid to late 70s for his Government's reduction in commitments and the dismal state of the Canadian Forces. Quote
eyeball Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 I can confidently say that without involvement in WWII the world may be a very different place most positively for the worse.Probably, but I can't say the same about our involvement in WW1. WW1 was just a squabble between the Goddamned rich and the Goddamned powerful in which ordinary people got sucked into fighting for them. WW1 was a perfect example of where Canada should have only provided aid to innocent bystanders and otherwise minded itrs own business. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 If Europeans had been left to their own devices during WW1 WW2 probably never would have happened. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
PrimeNumber Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 just a squabble between the Goddamned rich and the Goddamned powerful in which ordinary people got sucked into fighting for them. I think you've just summed up every War for the entirety of the Human Race. Except WWII. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
eyeball Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 It's all been one big never-ending war, but we think and talk about it like hummingbirds on crack. Now every mission or installment is a brand new War on This, That and the Next Thing. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Don't forget the Great Turbot War....leave those Canadian fish alone ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 It's the attempt and desire to make a big deal out of this that's most revealing. And it is a fact that Harper would have joyfully followed Bush into Iraq, he probably still chafes at our not going. I really don't get why you lefties continue to dwell on this considering the Liberals put us in Afghanistan, which arguable was way worse and longer lasting (and most pointless) than if we'd gone to Iraq. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 I'm surprised anyone in the country even thinks there is any probability of success in any combat mission in the middle east, given the track records of everyone else who has tried and failed. That depends on how you define success. If it means turning the place into a giant sucking vacuum cleaner where all the crazy Islamists go to die, then that's success, as far as I'm concerned. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted January 23, 2015 Report Posted January 23, 2015 Recall the question Jodi Foster's character intended to ask of the advanced aliens in the movie Contact, "How did you do it, how did your species survive it's adolescence with out destroying yourselves"? The only answe I can imagine is that they managed to govern themselves in a manner in which the government was under the control of ordinary aliens instead of the rich ones. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
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