Beer Can Boycott ?

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-warren/crown-beer-cans_b_6507032.html?utm_hp_ref=canada&ir=Canada&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

Crown Metal Packaging employees in Toronto, who make cans for all the major beer companies and many craft brewers, have entered the 17th month of a forced strike.

These 120 workers have endured a level of hardship and malice from their employer that they could not have anticipated nearly two years ago as they prepared to negotiate a new collective agreement.

U.S.-based Crown had just given its Toronto employees a corporate award for operating the most productive and safest plant in its North American manufacturing empire. Crown almost doubled its profits in 2012, results for which the corporation's CEO enjoyed a $12-million annual compensation package -- getting paid more for two days' work than his highly productive Toronto employees were earning over an entire year.

So who here will be boycotting beer sold in cans now ?

Ghosthacked ?

[Big Guy]

All beer I buy is in cans. The tabs go into a jar for various charitable organizations, the cans are rinsed and crushed to take up little room and the product is temporarily enjoyed and processed accordingly. The crushed cans are periodically sold back to the Beer Store for 10 cents apiece and the money re invested in filled cans.

Boycott? Never !!!!!

[Boges]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-warren/crown-beer-cans_b_6507032.html?utm_hp_ref=canada&ir=Canada&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

So who here will be boycotting beer sold in cans now ?

Ghosthacked ?

I hear these ads. Talk about a Union trying to cut off its nose to spite its face.

If you buy beer in a case you're usually buying bottles. If you like to go to the LCBO and buy tallboys (like I've taken to recently because the Beer Store Sucks) then you buy cans.

I don't give two flips about these guys issue. Soft drinks are served in similar cans. Are we to believe beer is packaged in different types of cans than Pepsi?

Edited January 22, 2015 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

Are we to believe beer packaged in different types of cans than Pepsi?

I don't get it - are they asking us to believe that ?

[GostHacked]

I don't get it - are they asking us to believe that ?

It's the same can (355 ML).

[TimG]

So who here will be boycotting beer sold in cans now ?

I think it is unreasonable to form an opinion after only hearing one side of the dispute. i.e. why does the company believe that market dynamics justify moving to a lower paid work force? how much of the productivity gains were the result of unionized employees and how much was the result of investment in automation?

The fact that the plant has been on strike for 17 months suggests the demand for the product produced is easily met from other (presumably lower cost) producers. This fact undermines the workers argument that their productivity is a uniquely beneficial to the company.

Edited January 22, 2015 by TimG

[Shady]

Why would we boycott cans? I have no idea what the unions demands are.

[jacee]

- CEO ... getting paid more for two days' work than his highly productive Toronto employees were earning over an entire year.

- Crown demanded massive, take-it-or-leave-it concessions, including up to 42-per-cent wage cuts for a new generation of workers.

- Crown has attempted to break the strike by recruiting replacement workers

- replacing many of them even if a settlement is negotiated.In other words, many of the workers would have to agree to give away their jobs as a condition to settle the labour dispute.

Hmmm ... I wonder how their profits are now!

Boycott beer cans!!!

.

Edited January 22, 2015 by jacee

[Michael Hardner]

The fact that the plant has been on strike for 17 months suggests the demand for the product produced is easily met from other (presumably lower cost) producers.

I guess the other side would be the market forces at play, but we already know that response right ?

Anybody here going to participate in the boycott ?

[Michael Hardner]

CEO ... getting paid more for two days' work than his highly productive Toronto employees were earning over an entire year.

There's a fallacy at play that pay is "fair". Right-wing people will often use it when they're bringing up public servants, comparing them to a mythical private sector worker who is paid less. Left-wing people bring it up when discussing CEOs who earn the average worker's wage in a few minutes rather than weeks or months.

[GostHacked]

Also what is the point of calling me out specifically via the boycott question? I thought that was not allowed here?

[Boges]

There's a fallacy at play that pay is "fair". Right-wing people will often use it when they're bringing up public servants, comparing them to a mythical private sector worker who is paid less. Left-wing people bring it up when discussing CEOs who earn the average worker's wage in a few minutes rather than weeks or months.

This is true, When people bring up LCBO employees who stock shelves for $20/hour or teachers who make $90,000/year to work for 9 months a year, the term jealousy is thrown out.

But CEOs are always used as examples as why public service wages aren't too high. As if a companies CEO is any way comparable to the private sector worker.

I'm sure these workers are being given the raw deal, but they make freakin' cans! It's not like they're making Fighter Jets or Honda Civics.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Boges

[TimG]

Right-wing people will often use it when they're bringing up public servants, comparing them to a mythical private sector worker who is paid less. Left-wing people bring it up when discussing CEOs who earn the average worker's wage in a few minutes rather than weeks or months.

The two examples are apples and oranges. CEO pay is purely market driven and even though I think it is excessive no company is forced to pay those rates. Public servant pay is not market driven but based entirely on the "we should make more than last year" mentality that is not connected to any increase in productivity. Edited January 22, 2015 by TimG

[GostHacked]

This is true, When people bring up LCBO employees who stock shelves for $20/hour or teachers who make $90,000/year to work for 9 months a year, the term jealousy is thrown out.

But CEOs are always used as examples as why public service wages aren't too high. As if a companies CEO is any way comparable to the private sector worker.

I'm sure these workers are being given the raw deal, but they make freakin' cans! It's not like they're making Fighter Jets or Honda Civics.

Pay what the job is worth. I don't expect to make 20/h working at McDonald's. Pay grade depends on skill level required for the job. Regardless CEO's wages and bonuses are way to damn high. But blame shareholders for wanting a profit. LCBO may require a bit more than minimum wage, but not 20/h.

[Boges]

Pay what the job is worth. I don't expect to make 20/h working at McDonald's. Pay grade depends on skill level required for the job. Regardless CEO's wages and bonuses are way to damn high. But blame shareholders for wanting a profit. LCBO may require a bit more than minimum wage, but not 20/h.

Yeah but public servants aren't paid what they're worth. The Unions bribe politicians for their support.

[eyeball]

There's a fallacy at play that pay is "fair". Right-wing people will often use it when they're bringing up public servants, comparing them to a mythical private sector worker who is paid less. Left-wing people bring it up when discussing CEOs who earn the average worker's wage in a few minutes rather than weeks or months.

I think in cases like this unions should go on strike to demand a higher tax rate on employers. Unions would probably pick up a lot of public support....from un-conservatives at least.

[Michael Hardner]

Public servant pay is not market driven ..

Of course it's market driven. The union just has monopoly on supply.

[Michael Hardner]

Also what is the point of calling me out specifically via the boycott question? I thought that was not allowed here?

I'm just wondering where you would stand ? You're usually outraged when powerful people get perks, and take advantages... but I'm not exactly sure what your take would be is all...

[TimG]

Of course it's market driven. The union just has monopoly on supply.

If there is a monopoly there is no market since the word implies competition. Edited January 22, 2015 by TimG

[GostHacked]

I'm just wondering where you would stand ? You're usually outraged when powerful people get perks, and take advantages... but I'm not exactly sure what your take would be is all...

I don't understand the need to pay CEOs millions. The company is owned by shareholders and not one person. I could understand and justify making that money if there was one true owner where all the profits would go to him. But you hope to minimize risk out by incorporating your business and then hoping you get noticed to be traded on the stock market. Then you can still make millions and exit stage left and not be accountable for the company's financial situation. In the end, I really don't know.

The kicker is where the CEO gets paid no matter if the company tanks or thrives. The wage reflects the skills/working conditions. I would guess much of the operations are automated. And you have some varying level of skills needed to make the plant run properly. Inflation is outpacing the raises. Does not affect the CEO's wage.

I would really love to follow a CEO around for a year to know what they really do. See if their pay grade justifies their skill level.

[Michael Hardner]

If there is a monopoly there is no market since the word implies competition.

Microeconomics 101 -

http://www.peoi.org/Courses/Coursesen/mic/fram5.html

PURE MONOPOLY

Pure monopoly is a type of market characterized by

- a single seller or producer,

etc

[TimG]

Microeconomics 101

Pointless semantics. I use the word market to mean a "free market" with multiple willing buyers and sellers. You should have understood that from the context. Edited January 22, 2015 by TimG

[Michael Hardner]

Pointless semantics. I use the word market to mean a "free market" with multiple willing buyers and sellers. You should have understood that from the context.

I didn't understand it. It's a market, just as Canadian banking, Canadian telco and Canadian cannibis are markets.

[Boges]

But not a "free" market.

Banking is regulated but I still choose which back to do business with.

I can choose where to buy my liquor or where I want to access public education or health care.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

I can choose where to buy my liquor ...

Where do YOU live ? Sounds like paradise. I live in Ontario.