Islamophobia

[Mighty AC]

And 950 Million Muslims DO NOT Support Violent Jihad

The survey found the global median for Muslims opposed to violence in the name of Islam was 72 percent.

spin spin spin ...

And the very sad thing is that the more North American Muslims are vilified for what others have done, the more young North American Muslims, marginalized and vilified here in theirown countries, will be vulnerable to fringe fanatics' persuasion to violence.

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On a global basis, 28% of Muslims supporting violence in the name of Islam is huge! Strong majorities in most of the world support Sharia, along with the associated violence/misogyny and often death for apostates, as the official legal code. A majority of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan support honour killings for women that shame their families.

It is a shame that some vilify peaceful Muslims for the actions and opinions of others, but it is also unfortunate that many act as apologetics for the evil that is being done. Not all Catholics are raping children but that should not stop us from calling out the religion and demanding justice and change. Islam is chock-full of bad, violent ideas that are still being practiced; thus we need to demand justice and change. There is no room for ancient mythologies that conflict with modern, humane, moral behaviour.

[Michael Hardner]

It is a shame that some vilify peaceful Muslims for the actions and opinions of others, but it is also unfortunate that many act as apologetics for the evil that is being done.

Some on here have said that ISIS will continue until we "admit" that Islam is "part of the problem" "related to the problem"... or some wording. I don't understand how that works.

When it comes to blaming other groups for violence within their ranks, it's pretty difficult to get a criteria as I have said. Because once we have a number, a standard, a principle - it's pretty easy to point it back at ourselves. I always look to improve myself first, rather than point the finger.

[Michael Hardner]

You don't need numbers. You just need to know who you are talking about, and who you most definitely are not talking about.

Well, we're not talking about ISIS Mormons are we ? Does anybody doubt where this is happening, where it's coming from ? Aside from educating the most geographically numb among us, how does it help ?

One way it might help is to blame others and have something to talk about...

[Guest]

Well, we're not talking about ISIS Mormons are we ? Does anybody doubt where this is happening, where it's coming from ? Aside from educating the most geographically numb among us, how does it help ?

One way it might help is to blame others and have something to talk about...

I'm not sure I understand your post.

Actually, I'm pretty certain I don't. Sorry. I haven't been up long.

[Mighty AC]

Some on here have said that ISIS will continue until we "admit" that Islam is "part of the problem" "related to the problem"... or some wording. I don't understand how that works.

That's a little like saying the KKK or the idiot Phelps clan will continue until we admit Christianity is the problem. Religion is part of the justification and can't be ignored but, in these extreme cases, it takes a back seat to zealotry and hate.

However, we also can't ignore the fact that hundreds of millions of regular, rank and file, Muslims think violence is justified when Muhammad is insulted or a woman doesn't know her place. We do have to admit the religious root of some of these violent issues, call it out and demand change. Those that seek to prevent condemnation of bad ideas and immoral practices due to some misguided sense of racism are part of the problem.

[Big Guy]

To Mighty AC - Could you please share a reputable source for the study that created the figures that show that hundreds of millions of regular, rank and file, Muslims think violence is justified when Mohammed is insulted or a woman doesn't know her place. I find that figure surprising and would appreciate the reputable source.

[Michael Hardner]

That's a little like saying the KKK or the idiot Phelps clan will continue until we admit Christianity is the problem. Religion is part of the justification and can't be ignored but, in these extreme cases, it takes a back seat to zealotry and hate.

Right. It sounds like you agree with me that "admitting" that doesn't really help in any real way.

We do have to admit the religious root of some of these violent issues, call it out and demand change.

I think we have done that.

[Mighty AC]

To Mighty AC - Could you please share a reputable source for the study that created the figures that show that hundreds of millions of regular, rank and file, Muslims think violence is justified when Mohammed is insulted or a woman doesn't know her place. I find that figure surprising and would appreciate the reputable source.

Here is the link I posted to commentary on a Pew Research report: http://moralcompassblog.com/2013/05/03/pew/

Here is the direct link to the full report: http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

[Mighty AC]

Right. It sounds like you agree with me that "admitting" that doesn't really help in any real way.

It's important not to ignore zealotry, fundamentalism and hate, but acknowledging the religious root is also important. People are far more certain of their actions and beliefs, thus harder to change, when backed or commanded by a magical, supreme leader.

I think we have done that.

Some are certainly calling out many of the violent and immoral aspects of Islam. However, many still condemn this process as being racist or unjustified. Hence my comments.

I think people have to separate some the various actions in play. As a result of violent acts linked to Islam there are certainly innocent, peaceful people that are being unfairly targeted. That is wrong, but it is a separate situation and should not prevent people from condemning the evil aspects of Islam or prejudice. Many Christians are criticizing aspects of Islam while excusing the evil committed by their brethren. Again, this hypocrisy should not dissuade us from demanding change from either religion.

[eyeball]

It's important not to ignore zealotry, fundamentalism and hate, but acknowledging the religious root is also important. People are far more certain of their actions and beliefs, thus harder to change, when backed or commanded by a magical, supreme leader.

When do you think the west will ever get around to acknowledging the roots it has planted in the causes of this conflict? Why don't our actions and beliefs need to change - because they're backed or commanded by some supreme economic or geo-strategic doctrine?

I think it's even more important that we stop ignoring our own peculiar brand of fundamentalism because it's no less hateful as evidenced by the millions upon millions of people who do in fact hate it.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I think it's even more important that we stop ignoring our own peculiar brand of fundamentalism because it's no less hateful as evidenced by the millions upon millions of people who do in fact hate it.

So what ? Let 'em hate it...the whole world doesn't have or need the "please love us" gene.

Most crimes are committed by domestic actors without any peculiar brand of "fundamentalism".

[Mighty AC]

When do you think the west will ever get around to acknowledging the roots it has planted in the causes of this conflict?

Not until we mostly move beyond fossil fuels and no longer have a use for the middle east. A carbon tax could dramatically reduce harmful fossil fuel consumption, lower income taxes and reduce western interference in petro states. Edited January 21, 2015 by Mighty AC

[eyeball]

Not until we mostly move beyond fossil fuels and no longer have a use for the middle east.

How banal. After a century or more of abusing and using the ME it's so long and thanks for all the good times.

A carbon tax could dramatically reduce harmful fossil fuel consumption, lower income taxes and reduce western interference in petro states

Perhaps, but given a carbon tax is as deeply reviled as Islamism I doubt we'll be embracing it any sooner than it takes to drain the last drop of profit that can be extracted from ME fossil fuels.

[Mighty AC]

Perhaps, but given a carbon tax is as deeply reviled as Islamism I doubt we'll be embracing it any sooner than it takes to drain the last drop of profit that can be extracted from ME fossil fuels.

Change is hard, but worth fighting for.

[jacee]

On a global basis, 28% of Muslims supporting violence in the name of Islam is huge! Strong majorities in most of the world support Sharia, along with the associated violence/misogyny and often death for apostates, as the official legal code. A majority of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan support honour killings for women that shame their families.

It is a shame that some vilify peaceful Muslims for the actions and opinions of others,

It's more than a shame. It increases the alienation of peaceful Muslims from our societies and increases the vulnerability of young Muslims to violent sects.

but it is also unfortunate that many act as apologetics for the evil that is being done. Not all Catholics are raping children but that should not stop us from calling out the religion and demanding justice and change. Islam is chock-full of bad, violent ideas that are still being practiced; thus we need to demand justice and change. There is no room for ancient mythologies that conflict with modern, humane, moral behaviour.

We need to partner with peaceful Muslims.

We can't do that if they see themselves as excluded, discriminated against because of the acts of others.

Painting all with one brush is not constructive.

It's important to recognize that western $upport for violent jihad is a significant factor too, using them to achieve corporate goals in other countries.

Just trashing Muslims isn't an answer to anything. The dialogue with peaceful Muslims will have to include looking at our own roles too.

.

Edited January 21, 2015 by jacee

[Big Guy]

AC Thank you for the reference. I was unable to access the first one but the second one was quite informative. It does supply results which do not paint the Muslims in quite the frame that your posts indicate I suggest that your conclusions based on the results are incorrect. Do you have another source that would validate your claims?

[Argus]

A tiny fraction of all Muslims participate in terrorist attacks.

An alarmingly high percentage of Muslims condone violent acts done in the name of Islam.

And a hugely larger number accept and support profoundly ignorant, barbaric social practices which are dictated by the Koran.

[Argus]

What makes you believe that we can blame the teachings of Islam for hate, violence and chaos?

A penniless, male, angry, Arab, Muslim, who has lost his home and members of his family to Western forces kills an American and he does so because he is a Muslim?

Or a well off doctor who has lost no family members to western forces tries to blow up an airport in Britain, or a sucesfull US army doctor and psychiatrist guns down his fellow citizens, or citizens of Saudi Arabia, among the most well-healed and protected in the Muslim world fly airplanes into buildings in the US, or ignorant Canadian born fan-boys murder people and plot to blow up trains and parliament....

[Argus]

We have 8 million Muslims in North America - 1 million in Canada and 7 million in the USA. If Islam teaches hate and violence, why are the vast majority of North American Muslims not rioting?

In part because they're too spread out amongst the rest of us. When you make up less than 1% of the population there are limits to how far you can push your views. If one examines other countries where they make up substantially larger percentages of the population one can see the riots and violence fairly easily.

[Argus]

Where is the outcry in Canada when we have

every six days a woman in Canada is killed by her intimate partner.

Spousal and domestic violence is way higher in other countries, particularly in observant Muslim countries where the courts have decreed that, as per the Koran, it's fine to beat your wife if she disobeys you.

As of 2010, there were 582 known cases of missing or murdered Aboriginal women in Canada.

So what? This is such a faddish complaint given the RCMP have already released statistics that show that the rate of homicide against native women is no higher than among white women and that the solution rate to these crimes is just about the same (and quite high).

Edited January 22, 2015 by Argus

[Mighty AC]

AC Thank you for the reference. I was unable to access the first one but the second one was quite informative. It does supply results which do not paint the Muslims in quite the frame that your posts indicate I suggest that your conclusions based on the results are incorrect. Do you have another source that would validate your claims?

Odd that the first link didn't work. Here it is again: http://moralcompassblog.com/2013/05/03/pew/

Though the numbers often show majorities of Muslims in various nations oppose violence there is still significant support for it. 350 million Muslims support violence in defense of Islam. Though it may sound positive that a significant percentage of the Muslim population never supports suicide bombing, 42% think it is at least occasionally justified. http://thespeaker.co/42-percent-muslims-polled-pew-research-think-suicide-bombing-violence-civilians-least-occasionally-justified/

A far greater percentage of the Muslim population support sharia, spousal abuse, and death for cheaters and those that leave the faith. Check out pages 54-55 of the Pew report for some sickening stats.

In 10 of 20 countries where there are adequate samples for analysis, at least half of Muslims who favor making sharia the law of the land also favor stoning unfaithful spouses. Some of the highest support for stoning is found in South Asia and the Middle East-North Africa region. In Pakistan (89%) and Afghanistan (85%), more than eight-in-ten Muslims who want Islamic law as their country’s official law say adulterers should be stoned, while nearly as many say the same in the Palestinian territories (84%) and Egypt (81%). A majority also support stoning as a penalty for the unfaithful in Jordan (67%) and Iraq (58%).

Taking the life of those who abandon Islam is most widely supported in Egypt (86%) and Jordan (82%). Roughly two-thirds who want sharia to be the law of the land also back this penalty in the Palestinian territories (66%). In the other countries surveyed in the Middle East-North Africa region, fewer than half take this view. In the South Asian countries of Afghanistan and Pakistan, strong majorities of those who favor making Islamic law the official law of the land also approve of executing apostates (79% and 76%, respectively).

[Michael Hardner]

I applaud the token effort to understand what is happening in another culture, even when it's based in a desire to lay blame ... from the outset.

[eyeball]

And a hugely larger number accept and support profoundly ignorant, barbaric social practices which are dictated by the Koran.

Look at how many of us support diddling the region these folks live in. We've been happily electing perverted murderers to run our programs over there for decades.

Je suis diddlèrs.

[Mighty AC]

Look at how many of us support diddling the region these folks live in. We've been happily electing perverted murderers to run our programs over there for decades.

Start demanding a carbon tax. It's the quickest way out.

[eyeball]

I'm demanding it anyway but I don't believe it. There's dominoes to keep upright, the War on Drugs, maintaining Israel and the dictatorships surrounding it.

We'll probably need cheap sand for paving the free world with solar panels.