jacee Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 That means only 750 million DO support it. And lets not forget Taqiyya. Of the 950 million, are 100% telling the truth? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya 950m = 72% of the 1.3b Muslims in the world. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 We do need to work with peaceful Muslisms who want to reinvent the faith and the culture. Okay, but peaceful westerners also need to get in the face of the extremists from our culture that are attacking and molesting Muslim countries. And Muslims need to see us doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Okay, but peaceful westerners also need to get in the face of the extremists from our culture that are attacking and molesting Muslim countries. And Muslims need to see us doing it.So true./canadas-african-adventure-takes-a-colonial-turn Then came the trouble. The taking of resources is a rough business . ... As a result, Canadian companies cant seem to keep out of trouble in Africa.This week, we learned that a Calgary oil company, Griffiths Energy International Inc., had paid a $2-million bribe in a resource deal with the government of Chad. Two weeks earlier, a detailed report from Human Rights Watch revealed that a mine in Eritrea owned by Canadian mining company Nevsun Resources had been built in part by unpaid forced labourers provided by the Eritrean government. And Quebec engineering firm SNC-Lavalin, one of the largest contractors in the world, faces continuing criticism for the huge sums it paid to Moammar Gadhafi and his family in exchange for contracts worth billions, including the construction of a prison. And thats just January [2013]: There have been scores of other humanitarian, political and ecological storms kicked up by Canadian companies in Africa. Edited January 25, 2015 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 950m = 72% of the 1.3b Muslims in the world. . Sorry Jacee, where are you getting your stats? 1.6 billion http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/06/07/worlds-muslim-population-more-widespread-than-you-might-think/ 1.8 billion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations 2.08 billion (I don't find this credible, but thought I would throw it in for context) http://www.muslimpopulation.com/World/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 From the poll posted earlier that cited the 72% opposed to violent jihad. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) From the poll posted earlier that cited the 72% opposed to violent jihad, So, they don't even know the base line number of Muslims in the world, yet they can accurately determine how many Muslim extremists there may be? Anyways, I won't quibble about numbers. 1.3 billion, 2.08 billion. Doesn't matter. Best guess, using the lowest number of Muslims, equates to 350 million Muslims support violent jihad. As of July 4, 2014, there were 318,881,992 people living in the United States. By your very conservative estimates, there are 31,118,008 more radical Muslims in the world than there are in the United States, the third most populous country in the world. Does this mean they will all turn to violent jihad? Of course not. In the case of war, not all 318,881,992 Americans would go to war either. Edited January 25, 2015 by drummindiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 So, they don't even know the base line number of Muslims in the world, yet they can accurately determine how many Muslim extremists there may be? Sorry, not a poll I would place great faith in. Ya it could be 70% or 74%. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Ya it could be 70% or 74%. . I reread the poll and edited my post accordingly. btw, the poll from Pew stated 1.3? The link from Pew I posted stated 1.6. Obviously one link is more current. Edited January 25, 2015 by drummindiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 I have a couple of Kurds as work-mates and although they are nominally muslims they really don't give two hoots about religion. They don't observe ramadan, they don't observe any praying times nor are they away half a day every Friday. The point I'm trying to make that every sensible person knows that ordinary muslims have nothing to do with islamic terrorism. Hence the irritation about whinging about islamophobia at every turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 I reread the poll and edited my post accordingly. btw, the poll from Pew stated 1.3? The link from Pew I posted stated 1.6. Obviously one link is more current. And I trust you grasped the sarcasm in mine. 72% regardless . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 There has been enough trouble in the past centuries because of one desert religion. Fortunately most of the followers of that said religion have turned secular and don't care about the religion at all. The least thing we need is another desert religion and hopefulness that most of its followers become secular too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 If the rhetorical isolated incidences like the one you illustrated are all that were happening in the world we would not be having this debate. That is obviously not the case. Scroll down for the numbers http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks Interesting seeing just the list of Islamic terrorist acts committed in the last 30 days alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 We won't be able to if we marginalize and alienate them with broadbrush stereotypes. But they are already alienated by their religion and those in the West marginalize themselves deliberately by their clothing and behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Okay, but peaceful westerners also need to get in the face of the extremists from our culture that are attacking and molesting Muslim countries. And Muslims need to see us doing it. We're not attacking and molesting Muslim countries. Mostly Muslims are doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Ya it could be 70% or 74%. . You are also not understanding what 'opposed' means. Vast numbers of the Muslims who say they are opposed to violent jihad are in favour of many of the goals of violent jihad. And their opposition doesn't amount to much in the way of actual effort to restrain their coreligionists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 What may be worse though are Ben Affleck types who would call anyone who denounces the violence, homophobia and misogyny committed by many Islamic cultures as racist. WTF? It's a very subtle shift between criticizing acts in the name of a religion, criticizing the religion, criticizing all adherents... And again, it has been said on these boards that until we accept these types of criticisms then "nothing can be done" about ISIS or somesuch. I don't get that. Arguing the finer points of cultural comment is just a sideshow for smart people to distract themselves... unless somebody can point out something real that will come out of this. Those who would turn a relativist eye on that kind of behaviour and excuse it are unintentionally evil. And ... what can/should/will be done about that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 And I trust you grasped the sarcasm in mine. 72% regardless . lol Of course I did. Surely you can see that 70-74% of a religion not supporting killing your ass is not acceptable? Or enacting Sharia law for us all to live by? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) We won't be able to if we marginalize and alienate them with broadbrush stereotypes. But they are already alienated by their religion and those in the West marginalize themselves deliberately by their clothing and behaviour. They are not alienated. They refuse to assimilate (in many-not all-cases). Many countries welcome them in as citizens to have them refuse to even acknowledge our heritage and customs, yet demand we acknowledge theirs. Edited January 25, 2015 by drummindiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 They are not alienated. They refuse to assimilate (in many-not all-cases). More mouse words... "many cases"... how many ? What are the numbers ? What are the principles and what is the objective of these lines of discussion ? From what I can see it's mostly to point out that we're better than them, and a general emotive group-hug about how superior we are. If we acknowledge that Islamist terrorism comes from Islam, as I have done, then what then ? Do we get to move on from this stuff at some point ? And if so, to where ? Many countries welcome them in as citizens to have them refuse to even acknowledge our heritage and customs, yet demand we acknowledge theirs."Many"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 More mouse words... "many cases"... how many ? What are the numbers ? What are the principles and what is the objective of these lines of discussion ? From what I can see it's mostly to point out that we're better than them, and a general emotive group-hug about how superior we are. If we acknowledge that Islamist terrorism comes from Islam, as I have done, then what then ? Do we get to move on from this stuff at some point ? And if so, to where ? "Many"... Come on Michael. You have google. You really want me to get the links to tell you how France, England, Canada, US, "many" other countries have large numbers of Muslim immigrants who don't assimilate? Not only don't assimilate, but create No-Go zones for natives of that country? What is the objective of this line of discussion? Really? Some places we are not allowed to criticize, let alone talk about this, and I'm not talking Muslim majority countries. Yes, these two are extreme, but what about freedom of speech? http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-23064355 We are not even allowed to be in "Muslim" areas in some of these countries. Sweden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziOuNKymDnQ Belgium https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDKk15KcqNk UK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VQk_VklYUc France https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIy8snQrpYU Germany https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csOvTKkMBtM Denmark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwz9Wl3Bsu0 Holland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sJ7eMUBBzc Australia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN6uGE-Ej58 How about Dearborn Michigan, USA? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVvgrEm4FE4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkfVAeG3rn4 Canada https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jMIAG1yL_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPbQsUc0PXc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1H7WPBck6E You continually espouse ideas that I personally have never uttered, nor seen. "From what I can see it's mostly to point out that we're better than them, and a general emotive group-hug about how superior we are. If we acknowledge that Islamist terrorism comes from Islam, as I have done, then what then ?" If you can show me one reference where I or anybody has stated anything of the sort I will write a full apology. You just continue on with your Affleckesque defence. Can you refute anything I've posted? What can we do? How about lose the PC stigma of saying we disagree about anything or anybody. It's not bigotry to disagree with what's going on in "many" countries. It's reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Come on Michael. You have google. You really want me to get the links to tell you how France, England, Canada, US, "many" other countries have large numbers of Muslim immigrants who don't assimilate? 1. I don't have to back up your points. 2. You responded with another non-quantifiable number... ie. "large". I will address that below. Not only don't assimilate, but create No-Go zones for natives of that country? Weren't those debunked this week with a FOX apology ? What is the objective of this line of discussion? Really? Some places we are not allowed to criticize, let alone talk about this, and I'm not talking Muslim majority countries. That's a non-answer. We are not even allowed to be in "Muslim" areas in some of these countries. I don't accept YouTube videos as evidence because: 1) They seem to not be able to make their points without dramatic effects to emotionalize the issues 2) It takes far far far too long to make a point, and they tend to not have cites Also - didn't you already post some videos about the USA and they were shown to be put together by the "racial purity" type of person ? I like mainstream sources, and there are plenty of those but again I'll address the overall points below. You continually espouse ideas that I personally have never uttered, nor seen. ? If you say that I espouse these ideas, then you have seen them no ? If you can show me one reference where I or anybody has stated anything of the sort I will write a full apology. Yes, this entire line of pointing out flaws in other cultures is that sort of thing. Can you refute anything I've posted? Yes I can. Scary videos, replete with emotional dark music, gravelly voiced narrators put together by racists aren't evidence of anything. And, anyway, my point is NOT that Islam has nothing to do with Islamic terrorism but that there's no stated end point to this line of criticism. What can we do? How about lose the PC stigma of saying we disagree about anything or anybody. It's not bigotry to disagree with what's going on in "many" countries. It's reality. Right, and we have pretty much all done that here. So can we move on ? If not, why not. Again - do we get to move on from this stuff at some point ? And if so, to where ? If I acknowledge these points, then why do people have to keep repeating them ? It just seems to me that we're at the end of the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 1. I don't have to back up your points. 2. You responded with another non-quantifiable number... ie. "large". I will address that below. Weren't those debunked this week with a FOX apology ? That's a non-answer. I don't accept YouTube videos as evidence because: 1) They seem to not be able to make their points without dramatic effects to emotionalize the issues 2) It takes far far far too long to make a point, and they tend to not have cites Also - didn't you already post some videos about the USA and they were shown to be put together by the "racial purity" type of person ? I like mainstream sources, and there are plenty of those but again I'll address the overall points below. ? If you say that I espouse these ideas, then you have seen them no ? Yes, this entire line of pointing out flaws in other cultures is that sort of thing. Yes I can. Scary videos, replete with emotional dark music, gravelly voiced narrators put together by racists aren't evidence of anything. And, anyway, my point is NOT that Islam has nothing to do with Islamic terrorism but that there's no stated end point to this line of criticism. Right, and we have pretty much all done that here. So can we move on ? If not, why not. Again - do we get to move on from this stuff at some point ? And if so, to where ? If I acknowledge these points, then why do people have to keep repeating them ? It just seems to me that we're at the end of the discussion. That is the most complete line of bullsh*t I have read on this forum period. You don't accept video evidence as evidence? Really? Because Youtube airs them? That is the most asinine argument yet. You base this assertion as infallible due to one marginal video. Really? Let it go Michael, let it go. "? If you say that I espouse these ideas, then you have seen them no ? "From what I can see it's mostly to point out that we're better than them, and a general emotive group-hug about how superior we are. If we acknowledge that Islamist terrorism comes from Islam, as I have done, then what then ?" You are the only person articulating this ridiculous assertion that anybody has said we are better than anybody. You claim others do it. I challenged you to prove it. You obviously can't back up this claim, nor any other claim you make. Because you don't like evidence, or the evidence isn't good enough, or not from the right source, or is beneath your intelligence level, or whatever. "Yes, this entire line of pointing out flaws in other cultures is that sort of thing." Again, bullsh*t. I point out flaws where I see them. If Islam is full of character flaws, I'll point them out. If Christian fundamentalists start a wave of terror, I'll point that out. Atheists start attacking ppl because they don't believe, I'll call bulls*t on that also. What else are the purpose of these forums Michael if not to discuss these types of issues? For you to advance your left wing agenda? "Can we move on?" We apparently can't even have an honest discussion, why should we move on? "1. I don't have to back up your points." You don't have to back up my points. I will. It would be nice if you backed up your own. "And, anyway, my point is NOT that Islam has nothing to do with Islamic terrorism but that there's no stated end point to this line of criticism." Isn't that pointing out flaws in someone else's culture? Are you not, with that comment, pointing out flaws in someone elses culture? Just a yes or no please. "If I acknowledge these points, then why do people have to keep repeating them ? It just seems to me that we're at the end of the discussion." Really? The title of this thread is Islamaphobia.: DEFINING "ISLAMOPHOBIA" The term "Islamophobia" was first introduced as a concept in a 1991 Runnymede Trust Report and defined as "unfounded hostility towards Muslims, and therefore fear or dislike of all or most Muslims." The term was coined in the context of Muslims in the UK in particular and Europe in general, and formulated based on the more common "xenophobia" framework. If you don't agree with all tenets of Islam, or all Muslim actions, you are branded Islamaphobic. Which is the same as calling somebody a racist. Or a bigot. Which I am not. So bullsh*t again. Fox apologized as Emerson said Birmingham was a no-go. Not true obviously. There are no-go zones however, and outlets like NBC, New York Times etc have been reporting about them for years. Here are some non-youtbe, links. I'm sure you won't read them anyways, as you refuse any actual proof that contradicts your beliefs. http://business.financialpost.com/2015/01/23/lawrence-solomon-pariss-muslim-no-go-zones-are-no-joke/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1574694/Bishop-warns-of-no-go-zones-for-non-Muslims.html http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/01/21/europes-muslim-no-go-zones-documented-on-video/ http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/01/22/report-uk-no-go-zones-sparking-tension-between-black-and-muslim-communities/ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2541635/Murders-rapes-going-unreported-no-zones-police-minority-communities-launch-justice-systems.html http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2015/01/22/those-mythical-no-go-zones-paris-nbc-and-ny-times-recognized-them-decade http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5128/france-no-go-zones http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2015/01/22/those-mythical-no-go-zones-paris-nbc-and-ny-times-recognized-them-decade http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jan/24/muslim-patrol-gang-arrests-homophobic-video http://www.wnd.com/2015/01/islam-experts-no-go-zones-looming-for-america/ http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2006/11/the-751-no-go-zones-of-france http://www.wnd.com/2015/01/yes-there-are-no-go-zones-in-europe/ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019547/Anjem-Choudary-Islamic-extremists-set-Sharia-law-zones-UK-cities.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty AC Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Okay, but peaceful westerners also need to get in the face of the extremists from our culture that are attacking and molesting Muslim countries. And Muslims need to see us doing it.Agreed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 You don't accept video evidence as evidence? Really? Because Youtube airs them? No, I actually posted why. You are the only person articulating this ridiculous assertion that anybody has said we are better than anybody. Ok. So I guess that means you HAVE seen the assertion now ? I did a quick search and got a quick result, so people on MLW do use that argument: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/19994-face-veils-banned-for-citizenship-oaths/?p=741455 You claim others do it. I challenged you to prove it. I don't think you did. You just said you hadn't seen my assertion before. I backed it up with the link above. . I point out flaws where I see them. If Islam is full of character flaws, I'll point them out. And nothing you said contradicts my assertion that you could be doing it to feel better about our culture. There are lots of flaws in other religions. You could point out those too if you were conducting a fair and even-handed survey of religions, but you're not. Isn't that pointing out flaws in someone else's culture? Are you not, with that comment, pointing out flaws in someone elses culture? Just a yes or no please. No. If you don't agree with all tenets of Islam, or all Muslim actions, you are branded Islamaphobic. That's not what it means by your own definition. You're just bringing noise into the discussion when you define something then write your own definition in right underneath. Thanks for the links, I read a few of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Agreed! Good. So what do you think the best way to do that is? Personally, I think Canada needs to become way more polarized around the issue of our foreign policies in the ME region. The path to enlightenment is painful but we will have to take it sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.