bush_cheney2004 Posted December 31, 2014 Report Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Rep. Michele Bachmann was roundly criticized in 2011 when campaigning about $2.00/gallon gasoline for American consumers (and all those Canadian cross border shoppers). Some said the only way it could happen is if the entire U.S. economy collapsed. So who's crazy now? In 2011, the MSM mercilessly mocked Michele Bachmann for saying that if she became president, gas prices would fall to under $2/gallon. Typical was Time magazine, which called her prediction "fantasy." Time mocked Bachmann's drill, baby, drill policy, sniffing that if implemented, "prices at the pump might drop a whole 3 cents a gallon." But on CBS This Morning, there was top oil analyst Tom Kloza, saying that by Christmas, gas prices would be in the range of . . . $1.99-2.29 [i saw $2.18 here in Texas yesterday]. So who's crazy now, and where does Bachmann go to get her apology from the MSM that so mercilessly mocked her? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ...So Bachmann has promised to bring gasoline below $2 a gallon — a 56% decrease from the current average price of $3.58 a gallon.... The U.S. — and the world — was in the depths of the worst recession since the 1930s, depressing demand for everything from data centers to electricity to driving. It’s Econ 101: precipitous falls in demand usually trigger precipitous falls in price, which is what happened to gas prices, dropping from a high of $4.05 a gallon in mid-July 2008 to a low of $1.69 a gallon at the end of December that year. If you see sub-$2-a-gallon gas again, I strongly suggest that you stock up on bottled water and canned tuna, because the economic end times may be at hand. http://science.time.com/2011/08/18/why-michele-bachmanns-2-a-gallon-gas-promise-is-a-fantasy/ Unleaded regular gasoline is retailing for $1.97 US at my local retailers....less in some other states. The U.S. economy has not collapsed....anything but. Thanks Michele. Drill baby, drill. Edited December 31, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 31, 2014 Report Posted December 31, 2014 Bachman, are you kidding? Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 Michele Bachman Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Smallc Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 Well, she was right at least this once. Quote
BubberMiley Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 Wow. A whole thread based on a failure to understand the difference between a promise and a prediction. Seeing as her promise came true, I guess she's been president the last two years. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
kimmy Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 Gas prices have hit $2 a gallon. I remember the 2012 nomination campaign where Newt Gingrich had his adult daughters dressed in t-shirts that said $2 in gigantic letters on the front, along with a picture of a gas pump. One of those rare laugh-out-loud moments which didn't come along much after Rick Perry dropped out. So is this a vindication of Obama's energy policy? Or is it evidence that (as Republicans insisted all along, at least while Bush was in office) that the price of gas is beyond the President's control? It's the latter. Cheap gas isn't a result of anything Obama did, and it isn't a promise Michele Bachmann or Newt Gingrich could have delivered, either. Americans have $2 gas, and Michele Bachmann is gone from politics in a month. Sounds like a win-win to me. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
WestCoastRunner Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 Americans have $2 gas, and Michele Bachmann is gone from politics in a month. Sounds like a win-win to me. -k It's a win! Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Posted January 1, 2015 ...It's the latter. Cheap gas isn't a result of anything Obama did, and it isn't a promise Michele Bachmann or Newt Gingrich could have delivered, either. But it is a direct result of more energy development, i.e. her (and others) slogan..."Drill, Baby Drill". Rep. Bachmann can leave office next month with a big smile on her face. The U.S. economy has not tanked because of cheaper oil. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Posted January 1, 2015 Another learned swipe at Bachmann in 2011....now demonstrably false: Bachmann’s claim is highly unrealistic. To reduce demand, the most important policy is stronger car and truck fuel efficiency standards — precisely what the Obama Administration has been doing. Her options for increasing gasoline or gas substitute supplies either require her to convince OPEC and other others to do what they’ve never been willing to do, or to adopt government policies that expand gasoline substitutes — again Obama policies. The one thing all oil experts would agree on is that no President could reduce prices to these levels simply by attempting to increase U.S. oil production. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 But it is a direct result of more energy development, i.e. her (and others) slogan..."Drill, Baby Drill". Rep. Bachmann can leave office next month with a big smile on her face. The U.S. economy has not tanked because of cheaper oil. Exactly. It's a product of more American energy, as well as Canadian, etc. Shale gas, and shale oil, as well as traditional natural gas and oil exploration. Everything the environmentalist extremists have worked hard against. Lower energy prices will also have a significant positive impact on the economy. Quote
Bonam Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 It seems inherently obvious that increasing supply while demand stays roughly constant will reduce prices. Econ 101 here. Not sure why this should come as a surprise to anyone. That being said, low oil prices are unlikely to last, as it's much more profitable for oil producers to sell 90% as much oil at double the price. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Posted January 1, 2015 Why wouldn't Econ 101 concepts apply when more production was advocated by Bachmann, Palin, and others ("Drill, Baby Drill") ? They were met with mocking derision at the time (2011). $2.00 gas is now a reality in the U.S. As for oil prices and producers, I plan to load up on Conoco-Phillips (lowest cost producer) and get the dividends too. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 I think you have missed the point yet again. Environmentalists don't want cheap gas, that just allows people to burn more of it. Boom and bust energy prices just destabilize the economy. Developing renewables makes the air you suck up every breath much healthier and the economy a bit more predictable. Quote
sharkman Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Why wouldn't Econ 101 concepts apply when more production was advocated by Bachmann, Palin, and others ("Drill, Baby Drill") ? They were met with mocking derision at the time (2011). $2.00 gas is now a reality in the U.S. As for oil prices and producers, I plan to load up on Conoco-Phillips (lowest cost producer) and get the dividends too. Also, Romney was bang on about Putin's Russia. Obama's response to Romney's comments on Russia was to suggest that the eighties called and they wast their foreign policy back (during the debate). Don't look now, Barry, but you're driving the eighties policy against Russia as you finally figured it out. Romney was also right about illegal immigration, not doing anything about it bore such fruit as the deluge of parentless children streaming into the US. He was also right about Iran, they are much closer to a nuke and will probably have one before Obama's time is over. Edited January 1, 2015 by sharkman Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 Bachman, Pallin, Mitt, Newt, I'm sure if you got them all in a room we could solve the worlds problems eh? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Posted January 1, 2015 Let Canada screw up its energy sector and economy with tree hugging politics and infighting (see recent Joe Oliver comments). In the U.S., pipelines are built....wells are drilled....rock is "fracked". Then some Canadians whine about why the "damn 'muricans" have cheaper gas. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
WIP Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 Well, she was right at least this once. And a broken watch can give you the correct time twice a day! So, the broken watch is more on the ball than Michelle Bachmann. I think we can certainly use this as an example of correlation not proving causation....after all, it's not like Michelle Bachmann ever read any oil industry reports or has a thimble-full of knowledge of the oil business in her brain! Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
WIP Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) But it is a direct result of more energy development, i.e. her (and others) slogan..."Drill, Baby Drill". Rep. Bachmann can leave office next month with a big smile on her face. The U.S. economy has not tanked because of cheaper oil. Ha Ha! Go to Oilprice.com and look up some of the new entries on the effects and worries that the developers of America's "unconventional" oil have about oil prices staying below $60.00 a barrel. This will also probably have further repercussions later this year, because most of the fracking of new oil and gas shale plays is financed by junk bonds and venture capital. I will predict that Wall Street is not going to be able to dodge this one without seeing a serious decline....let's see what happens this fall. *just want to add that the collapsing prices that is probably being deliberately caused by the Saudi's and Gulf states as part of their economic warfare against Iran, Russia...and possibly trying to shut down U.S. production also, is not going to last forever! There was a lot of speculation a few years back, that the Saudis' main oilfield - G'war, was running dry, when they were cutting production and increasing oil development in the Shia eastern quarter of their country. Previously, they had been avoiding developing any oil wells in the Shia territory. So, right now, either the Saudis were playing rope-a-dope with other competitors in and outside of OPEC, or they're bluffing and don't have enough reserves to keep pumping out their present rate of oil production. We'll see what happens. For me, I can't get emotionally invested in who wins and who loses in this dirty game, because the real bad news is that we are all screwed in the long run, because regardless of the blather we hear about windmills and solar panels, there doesn't seem to be any road out of Petroleum Age except for ecological collapse! Edited January 1, 2015 by WIP Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
Big Guy Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 I have read reports that some in Europe feel that the oil prices were manipulated by the USA and Saudi Arabia to put the squeeze on Russia. Since the USA has become oil self sufficient, it can afford to play games with the price of oil. Could there be any substance to a USA/Saudi arrangement? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
WIP Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 I have read reports that some in Europe feel that the oil prices were manipulated by the USA and Saudi Arabia to put the squeeze on Russia. Since the USA has become oil self sufficient, it can afford to play games with the price of oil. Could there be any substance to a USA/Saudi arrangement? It could be, but this is really hard to figure out. Because almost all of the U.S. oil production is unconventional...or expensive - it's from fracking shales which require constant new drilling to maintain production, or deep sea drilling, which is also costly. This article I came across on Oilprice.com is predicting the worst - Energy Crisis As Early As 2016, and that may/or may not happen, depending on what else happens around the world this year. But, that article indicates that there are already signs of declining investment and new drilling in the shale plays in North Dakota. This word of warning from an earlier article: As a consumer of oil, you may regard recent sharp declines in the world oil price as a blessing. But... If you work in the oil industry, you will not. If you work in the renewable energy industry, you will not. If you work in the energy efficiency business, you will not. If you work to address climate change, you will not. If you have investments in the oil industry (and nearly everyone does through pensions or 401k plans), you will not. If you live in a country that exports a lot of oil (not just Saudi Arabia, but Mexico, Canada and Norway, too), you will not. So, I'm not sure if the Obama Administration would have planned this out with the Saudis.....they have been taking credit for the shale oil and gas boom...they would at least have to be willing to sacrifice that constituency and Obama will likely end his term in office in a new recession....just like Dubya. I doubt that would be part of their planning, but who knows! It's all getting so weird, it's impossible to figure out if there are any plans or too many competing interests working against each other. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
GostHacked Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 Well, she was right at least this once. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Quote
GostHacked Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 I have read reports that some in Europe feel that the oil prices were manipulated by the USA and Saudi Arabia to put the squeeze on Russia. Since the USA has become oil self sufficient, it can afford to play games with the price of oil. Could there be any substance to a USA/Saudi arrangement? I believe more than substance. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-27/opec-policy-ensures-u-s-shale-crash-russian-oil-tycoon-says.html It was a response to Crimea and Ukraine. These are those economic sanctions at work. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted January 1, 2015 Report Posted January 1, 2015 Isn't this just OPEC playing the "Walmart" game? Made sure the US had a nest egg and now are putting Main Street boutiques (Russia, Canada, Norway) out of business. Make sure we're shopping out in "the 'Burbs" for that cheap product. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Posted January 1, 2015 ..For me, I can't get emotionally invested in who wins and who loses in this dirty game, because the real bad news is that we are all screwed in the long run, because regardless of the blather we hear about windmills and solar panels, there doesn't seem to be any road out of Petroleum Age except for ecological collapse! That's great, because I don't believe the pipe dream of "renewables" displacing petroleum or a hydrocarbon economy any time soon either. I drove by the Ivanpah Solar Power Facility in the Mohave Desert on Monday and it looked very impressive. Thousands of shiny heliostats in bright sunshine. Turns out that the first of three boiler units is only generating at about 50% of expected capacity (or unrealistic power generation projections to sell the project). Meanwhile, gas was still getting cheaper in 'Vegas. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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