US to Normalize Relations With Cuba

[Argus]

And about time, too. There'll be limits to what Obama can do without congressional approval, of course, but it's been patently obvious for a long time now that their boycott and other actions against Cuba have not worked. They haven't isolated Cuba. They haven't persuaded Cuba to rejoin the fold of loyal democracies. Like the war against drugs, it's time for a rethink. Kudos to Obama for that much.

There is no chance of congressional approval for anything deeper, of course. Playing to the Cuban American vote and appealing to the 'better dead than red' crowd's vote in key seats is considered far too important.

But it was ridiculous that the US had no diplomatic relations with them for so long. And whatever you think of Cuba's dictatorship, there are a lot worse out there that the US maintains normal, if not friendly relations with. Aside from Saudi Arabia being a lot richer, for example, is it really any more democratic, or any more likely to respect human rights?

Edited December 17, 2014 by Argus

[eyeball]

And whatever you think of Cuba's dictatorship, there are a lot worse out there that the US maintains normal, if not friendly relations with. Aside from Saudi Arabia being a lot richer, for example, is it really any more democratic, or any more likely to respect human rights?

I've heard some conspiratorial horseshit in my time but that takes the cake.

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cuba-u-s-to-restore-diplomatic-relations-after-50-year-rift-1.2876088

The link...

[ProudCanadianConservative]

Good point, and during Trudeau's era we as Canadians undermined US foreign policy by working with Cuba.

Now I'm not a fan of the Castro family but there are worse countries than Cuba.

[cybercoma]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cuba-u-s-to-restore-diplomatic-relations-after-50-year-rift-1.2876088

The link...

Why that link? There's hundreds of news services reporting this.

This is why I think it's awfully pedantic for you guys to be asking for links to major headlines.

[guyser]

Any mention of repealing the Helm-Burton Act? The one the US would try and nab Canucks and Americans with who did some business w CUBA?

(all the while ignoring that Coke Pepsi etc etc HQ is in Atlanta.....and one can get Coke et al in Cuba, ah yes...subsdiary of...Nope, deep pockets, here ya go Senator)

Edited December 17, 2014 by Guyser2

[Shady]

Great. Now trips to Cuba are gonna cost way more.

[The_Squid]

Great. Now trips to Cuba are gonna cost way more.

More flights to Cuba and more competition to fly there = more expensive? Your knowledge of supply/demand economics is a bit .... whacked.

If it's good for Cubans, then this is great.

Edit: normalizing diplomatic relations doesn't affect flight prices.

Edited December 17, 2014 by The_Squid

[Big Guy]

Apparently Canada played a key role in that breakthrough since we are trusted by both countries. That is a throwback to the good old days before the current government made us USA "junior" and switched to a foreign policy that makes us the laughing stock of the UN. There was a time when we had our own foreign policy based on a vision held by most Canadians, not the 38% who voted Conservative.

[guyser]

More flights to Cuba and more competition to fly there = more expensive? Your knowledge of supply/demand economics is a bit .... whacked.

Pretty sure shady didnt say flights, but he did say trips. In any case, he is right, they will become more expensive.

If it's good for Cubans, then this is great.

Edit: normalizing diplomatic relations doesn't affect flight prices.

It may be good for Cubans, it may not. Miami folks are none too pleased, and they are all Cubans. Edited December 17, 2014 by Guyser2

[Shady]

Pretty sure shady didnt say flights, but he did say trips. In any case, he is right, they will become more expensive.

It may be good for Cubans, it may not. Miami folks are none too pleased, and they are all Cubans.

Yes, I'm thinking right now there's a finite number of hotels and/or resorts, with 300 million new customers that would be interested in a Cuban vacation. Ultimately it's good for Cuba and their economy.

The Cubans aren't too pleased because many lived under the Castro regime.

[Big Guy]

Updated information reports that the Pope was instrumental in negotiations. Canada appeared to provide the venues but bit was this latest Pope who was personally involved in talking to the two leaders.

[GostHacked]

A ploy to entice Cuba to move away from their relationship with Russia. However we have seen recently where the CIA has been trying to influence things from the inside.

[Shady]

A ploy to entice Cuba to move away from their relationship with Russia. However we have seen recently where the CIA has been trying to influence things from the inside.

They should move away from Russia. Russia has used Cuba with no regard for the Cubans for decades.

[Bryan]

It will be very interesting to see what action follows Obama's words. He really does appear to easing diplomatic relations, he DID meet with Raul Castro in Havana, a proper US embassy most likely is going to be established, and some travel restrictions are going to be eased up. The prisoner swap is huge, that should have happened a long time ago, at least that does show that they really are talking.

The embargo though, is not being removed. He may be giving the impression that it is in recent interviews, but it's simply not true. The embargo is an act of congress, it has not been changed, and Obama doesn't even have the authority to change it even if he wanted to (and he knows that). Economic sanctions are still in place, trade and tourism is still banned.

Sadly, I suspect that this is all just for show as the Democrats are losing their majority in the House, and this is probably just a symbolic parting shot so that they can claim that it's all the Republicans fault that it didn't work.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Bryan

[Shady]

Now that relations have been normalized, does anyone know if Cuba will allow its citizens to come and go as they please? Or are they still trapped there?

[Bryan]

I've heard some conspiratorial horseshit in my time but that takes the cake.

How do you figure that what Argus wrote is in any way "conspiratorial"? There most certainly are countries that are far worse than Cuba in terms of human rights and democracy that the US maintains full relations with.

[Bryan]

Now that relations have been normalized, does anyone know if Cuba will allow its citizens to come and go as they please? Or are they still trapped there?

For sure, NO. The embargo is still in full effect. This is mostly about improving the general diplomatic relationship, not open access.

[Topaz]

Can you imagine the shock on those people's faces when their country starts trading again with the outside world and get a 2015 auto? Antique car dealers will be seeking to buy their cars, some are from the 1950's. I'm wondering if part of these friendly talks have anything to do with the North America Security rim which included the Caribbean.

[eyeball]

How do you figure that what Argus wrote is in any way "conspiratorial"? There most certainly are countries that are far worse than Cuba in terms of human rights and democracy that the US maintains full relations with.

Well, when I point that out around here folks like Argus, Moonbox et al will dismiss it as conspiratorial horseshit.

When they point out out it's pure gold.

Don't ask me to explain it, I just post here. I don't make the rules.

[Shady]

Can you imagine the shock on those people's faces when their country starts trading again with the outside world and get a 2015 auto? Antique car dealers will be seeking to buy their cars, some are from the 1950's. I'm wondering if part of these friendly talks have anything to do with the North America Security rim which included the Caribbean.

They already do trade with the outside world. Europe, Russia, China, Canada, etc, etc, etc.

[Wilber]

They already do trade with the outside world. Europe, Russia, China, Canada, etc, etc, etc.

Not really when the US penalizes foreign companies that trade with Cuba.

[Bryan]

Now that relations have been normalized, does anyone know if Cuba will allow its citizens to come and go as they please? Or are they still trapped there?

I just realized that you meant Cubans leaving Cuba, rather than Americans going to Cuba. (not sure how I mangled that)

The answer is, Cubans already can leave, and have been allowed to for some time. My family has some Cuban friends who go back and forth between Canada and Cuba almost every year. What has changed recently is you don't need to have a temporary permission slip to go, just your passport. Up until a couple of years ago, Cuba operated their customs for both arrivals and departures on the basis that everyone foreign or domestic needed to get a visa to signify that they have received permission to cross the border. Now, only foreigners need those.

Not really when the US penalizes foreign companies that trade with Cuba.

This is the biggest problem. Ships that dock in Cuba are not allowed to dock in the US for six months, companies that have ANY business relationships in the US cannot trade with Cuba, even foreign companies that might own stock in American companies are subject to having their assets seized. There are so many things they simply cannot get at any price.

Can you imagine the shock on those people's faces when their country starts trading again with the outside world and get a 2015 auto? Antique car dealers will be seeking to buy their cars, some are from the 1950's. I'm wondering if part of these friendly talks have anything to do with the North America Security rim which included the Caribbean.

Lots of modern vehicles in Cuba actually. There are lots of old ones, but far more newer ones. The thing about the old ones though, is it's not like they have access to parts. So they have to either make them McGuyver-style, or modify something from another machine to fit. As such, a lot of those '57 Chevys have Russian Tractor engines or other square-peg-round-hole solutions in the them.

[eyeball]

This is the biggest problem. Ships that dock in Cuba are not allowed to dock in the US for six months, companies that have ANY business relationships in the US cannot trade with Cuba, even foreign companies that might own stock in American companies are subject to having their assets seized. There are so many things they simply cannot get at any price.

This does seems like a reasonable non-violent way to deal with dictators.

I think it's an even more appropriate way of correcting the bad behavior of countries that install and support dictators.

[Bryan]

This does seems like a reasonable non-violent way to deal with dictators.

I think it's an even more appropriate way of correcting the bad behavior of countries that install and support dictators.

Depends on your definition of dictator I guess.

The Blockade doesn't hurt the Castros much, but it sure is punitive to the average Cuban who is just trying to survive.