terror attack in Jerusalem

[Rue]

Well of course we did not expect the usual anti Israel contributors on this forum to commence this thread so I will.

As we now know 3 American-Israeli dual citizens and a British citizen were killed as 25 Jews were praying in the religious seminary known as Haarav Shimon on Agrassi street in the orthodox Jewish neighbourhood of Har Nof in East Jerusalem.

This follows previous attacks since June in Jerusalem on Jews by Palestinians which is connected to an on-going religious dispute as to access to a site considered the most holy of Jewish sites and the third most holy of Muslim sites. Since 1967 when Israel took control of all Jerusalem the area known as the Temple Mount to Jews and the Noble Sanctuary to Muslims has been the source of considerable tension.

Prior to 1967 Jordan controlled East Jerusalem and excluded this area from Jews and Christians. After 1967, Muslims have continued to refuse to allow anyone but Musims on the mount and have engaged in violence when Jews or Christians requested access to pray. This culminated in recent weeks in Netanyahu closing it at one point to all to ease tensions as Jewish groups wanting to pray their insisted on their right to access.

The latest attack on 25 worshippers in a synagogue with an ax,meat cleaver and gun was carried out by Ghassan and Oday Jamal, members of the Abu Ali Mustafa brigade, the armed terrorist wing of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine which I have regularly mentioned on this forum as an active terror cell in East Jerusalem and on the West Bank and is in full alliance with Hamas.

Within minutes of the attackers being killed by police, Hamas was running clips of the attack hailing the attackers as heros and calling on Palestinians to engage in further attacks. Hamas operatives were out in the streets cheering and handing out candy to Palestinians in Gaza.

Israel has now arrested 14 family relatives of the two attackers who were brothers. The two were shot dead,

8 others were injured of whom one has been reported as a Canadian citizen.

Hamas spokesperson Abu Zhami is now on the Hamas media calling for more attacks as I write this.

What is interesting is that one poster on a thread wrote in he believes the root cause of terrorism is poverty. Well in this case the religious dispute has gone on since the Muslims built a Mosque on top of the most sacred site of Jews thousands of years ago as a deliberate symbolic exercise.

That mosque in Jerusalem is said to be the 3rd most holy Muslim site but interestingly is not stated as such or even mentioned in the Koran. None-the-less it is a site of tremendous importance to all three religions and has been disputed for thousands of years.

For those who think Israel should just unilaterally withdraw from the West Bank and East Jerusalem this serves as yet another reminder why they can not. The manifesto of Hamas and the Popular Front calls for killings of Jews world wide and their forced conversion to Islam. It calls for a Sharia law state in Israel,Jordan,Gaza and the West Bank to join a world wide caliphate to run the world through a Muslim clerical council.

Tensions in East Jerusalem existed prior to 1967 with Jordan in charge. in those pre 1967 days,Jordanian soldiers would openly urinate and defecate on Jewish holy sites, and East Jerusalem Muslims would hack pieces of Jewish holy sits and sell them as souvenirs. There were at least 10 slaughters of Jews during the 1930[s to 1967 including burning down their synagogues in the Eastern zone of Jerusalem.

This is just one in a never ending series of attacks whereby terrorists exploit tensions.

It also comes in response to Israel taking some more land for buildings which Palestinians felt was unfair.

Netanyahu is now threatening a response. Abbas has condemned the attack but other members of his council are applauding the attack. The same John Kerry who told Israel to unilaterally withdraw from East Jerusalem with no security conditions attached is now condemning the attack.

This happens at the same time Netanyahu sent a public message to Obama criticizing his support of Iran.

It is now believed Israel had prepared air sites in Azerberjan with a view to using such bases to engage in a solo air attack on Iran to disable a nuclear reactor now believed to be on line. Obama is said to have threatened to leak to Iran sensitive intelligence that would have compromised Israeli air operations during the attack.

So tensions could not be any higher between the US and Isral.

In fact they have never been this low.

I will start another thread when I have time delineating the anti Israel policy Obama's administration initiated that now sees Iran as its primary ally in the Middle East and Egypt and Israel as its enemy.

This is no surprise to many after seeing Samantha Power and Zbigniew Brezinski be promoted as the major spokespersons on Middle East policy. Tis is the same Brezinski who openly supports Hamas and Power who has called on the US to occupy Palestine and cut its ties with Israel.

When such attacks happen terrorist groups exploit the tensions of the moment but they are also being manipulated by people such as Hamas sensing division between Obama and Israel and looking to create a side show to divert attention from the ISIL issue.

Interestingly this attack happened very shortly after Netanyahu said US policy in the Middle East was mistaken in thinking Hezbollah and Iran could be American allies even though they now share the US desire to rid the area of ISIL.

Netanyahu has warned Iran and Hezbollah are just as anti American as they ever were. Obama is again engaging in the same disasterous misstep he did with Erdogan in thinking ISIS would be his ally in the first place against Syria.

Obama is clearly over his head courting Muslim alliances with terrorist cells and is not going to take advice from Netanyahu or Egypt as to the dangers not just of ISL and Al Quaeda but Hezbollah and Iran.

In this sense Obama has alienated Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the UAE as well and even his fledging alliance with Turkey may yet blow up as Turkey is now reluctantly taking in its enemy the Kurds and being asked to turn on its ally ISIL.

This terrorist attack while isolated will threaten to trigger retaliatory responses or further imitation responses and Israel is not in the mood with this happening to watch Obama court Israel's enemy Iran who once again on the weekend called for the destruction of Israel.

Oh but hey, now we can hear how this attack, cheered on by Hamas is understandable because of poverty and root causes.

Yah yah. Vote for Justin.

[The_Squid]

Firstly, I didn't read more than a couple lines of your post. Great try at baiting the forum with your first line, but you should name names! All your good posts name names...

On the topic of the batshit crazies in the Middle East:

Atheism = peace

No need to fight over a hill... the entire thing is just idiotic on all sides!

[Big Guy]

Is it important that the dead be identified as American-Israeli and British-Israeli citizens? What is wrong with just Israeli citizens?

[Big Guy]

I was watching coverage of this tragedy. A spokesman for the Israeli govt stated that the homes of the two gunmen will be (or maybe already have been) destroyed. Why? It is meant as a message to potential suicide bombers that even after they are dead that bad things will be done to their families. That is an interesting approach to terrorism. I suggest that punishing innocent people for the sins of guilty family members is not only not a deterrent but starts dragging Israel down to the level of terrorists.

How long does Israel think that the West is going to support those kind of policies?

[bush_cheney2004]

If the homes were used to harbour terrorists, weapons, and/or plan attacks....destroy them.

[guyser]

If the homes were used to harbour terrorists, weapons, and/or plan attacks....destroy them.

How far you want to take that?

[On Guard for Thee]

Is it important that the dead be identified as American-Israeli and British-Israeli citizens? What is wrong with just Israeli citizens?

Because they weren't just Israeli citizens.

[sharkman]

Firstly, I didn't read more than a couple lines of your post. Great try at baiting the forum with your first line, but you should name names! All your good posts name names...

On the topic of the batshit crazies in the Middle East:

Atheism = peace

No need to fight over a hill... the entire thing is just idiotic on all sides!

This post shows such a complete ignorance and naivete on atheism it's beyond words. History is full of atheist dictators, mass murderers and forms of government. To think that atheism equals peace is a sad, sad denial of humanity. It's this kind of wilful denial that makes you little better than a violent extremist because you excuse them.

[marcus]

This is a callous and inhumane act.

Unfortunately, some of those who are enraged by the act, like the Rue's, hold very little credibility since they are selective on the worth of people's lives. On many occasions, the Rue's have tried to excuse the astounding number of murdered innocent Palestinians, committed by the Israeli military. At the end of it all, these killings of innocent people could have been prevented. The killing of innocent civilians, whether Palestinian or Jewish are the fault of the culture of hatred and revenge and those who excuse them.

[sharkman]

I love how whenever Israel attacks some religious idiots who are firing missiles it's Israel's fault, and when Israelis are being blown up or murdered it's still Israel's fault. The faith that says Jews are pigs that must be killed has nothing to do with it, eh? What nonsense, you people are twisted racists.

[GostHacked]

If the homes were used to harbour terrorists, weapons, and/or plan attacks....destroy them.

YEah maybe the WhiteHouse needs to be taken out because of when GWB played host to the Taliban early in his presidency.

[marcus]

I love how whenever Israel attacks some religious idiots who are firing missiles it's Israel's fault,

By "religious idiots", I'm assuming you mean, fighters or "terrorists" as Israel calls anyone who fights back against it.

There is a world beyond the simple bubble you have created for yourself. Your narrative always has a lot of holes in it. It sounds like your selective memory forgot that over 1500 innocent civilians were killed in the last attack by Israel. Meaning that majority of the people that Israel kills are innocent civilians. Innocent civilians that Israel did not have to kill.

If you want to play tit for tat, then the fanatics on the Palestinian side still have a long ways to go, before they can say: "Well. There we go. We've killed just as many innocent civilians on their side! We're all even now!"

[Rue]

Is it important that the dead be identified as American-Israeli and British-Israeli citizens? What is wrong with just Israeli citizens?

Yes this question coming from someone who identified the dead as " a whole bunch of Jews".

[Rue]

This is a callous and inhumane act.

Unfortunately, some of those who are enraged by the act, like the Rue's, hold very little credibility since they are selective on the worth of people's lives. On many occasions, the Rue's have tried to excuse the astounding number of murdered innocent Palestinians, committed by the Israeli military. At the end of it all, these killings of innocent people could have been prevented. The killing of innocent civilians, whether Palestinian or Jewish are the fault of the culture of hatred and revenge and those who excuse them.

Finish what you started since you now engage me in a personal attack. Provide one post of mine where I stated a Palestinian life was inferior to or less worthy than an Israeli life. Provide one post where I stated approved of killing innocent Palestinians.

Either put up or apologize. You have misrepresented my positions and your personal attack speaks for itself. Its easy to come on this board and accuse me of words you claim I said, now provide them or rettract your statement.

As well kindky refrain in your responses presuming to tell me how I feel, i.e., that I am "enraged" (sic).

Please do not project your feelings on me in your responses. Rage is your emotion.

While we are on the topic, I agreed with your statement other than the tangent you went off on misrepresenting my positions and tell me how I feel.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Rue

[Big Guy]

OK. A whole bunch of Israelis and a whole bunch of Palestinians battle for access to a Temple/Mosque causing a whole bunch of people to die (on both whole bunch sides). I think your concerns of me using "whole bunch" is a whole bunch of hooey!

[Hudson Jones]

You have misrepresented my positions and your personal attack speaks for itself. Its easy to come on this board and accuse me of words you claim I said, now provide them or rettract your statement.

As well kindky refrain in your responses presuming to tell me how I feel, i.e., that I am "enraged" (sic).

Please do not project your feelings on me in your responses.

This is rich, coming from The Rue.

When will you respond to everyone else, including myself where we have asked you to show where we have said the things you claim we have said.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Hudson Jones

[Hudson Jones]

Posted by Rabbi Marc Gopin:

This holy book has circulated as the main picture for the massacre at the synagogue in Jerusalem. I wanted to study the books that they died with.

So I enlarged it, inverted it, and discovered that the book was dedicated to the loving memory of several people, and then it had this inscription, which seems very much worth thinking about:

"They practiced compassion and faithfulness and charity all the days of their lives".

Good words to live for in any civilization.

I wanted to rescue the words from the blood.

For shed blood is here and gone,

but good holy words endure forever.

חסד אמת וצדקה גמלו כל ימי חייהם

[Rue]

This is rich, coming from The Rue.

When will you respond to everyone else, including myself where we have asked you to show where we have said the things you claim we have said.

This is rich? You the person who came on this forum and stated you did not refer to Israel the way you did? Right. You never said Israel should be wiped out not you. But you have stated not once but again and again Zionism is a cancer that needs to be wiped out and you want to personally engage me ont his thread. Save it Hudson Jones. You want to question my credibility and get personal? This thread is not aboout me. You want to try engage me Hudson take it off line where it belongs or better still start an attack Rue thread. Lol.

[Rue]

OK. A whole bunch of Israelis and a whole bunch of Palestinians battle for access to a Temple/Mosque causing a whole bunch of people to die (on both whole bunch sides). I think your concerns of me using "whole bunch" is a whole bunch of hooey!

Big Guy you are in no position to lecture either Palestinians or Israelis and assume you know better than they. That remains the point. You want to use the phrase "whole bunch of Jews" knock yourself out. I called out you words for what they were, presumptious, arrogant, patronizing.

It only takes one Jew to do that.

[Rue]

Firstly, I didn't read more than a couple lines of your post. Great try at baiting the forum with your first line, but you should name names! All your good posts name names...

On the topic of the batshit crazies in the Middle East:

Atheism = peace

No need to fight over a hill... the entire thing is just idiotic on all sides!

I did not bait the forum. I did make the point and it remains and I repeat it again, no anti Israeli contributor on this forum would start such a thread.

That is a demonstrated fact time and time again. That is not baiting its a fact.

Secondly if you don't want to read my posts don't. This nonsense where you read a line, then say you did not read the rest means what other than you don't read what I write and you try engage me without reading to know what I wrote. Lol. Knock yourself out not reading. Why tell me? Just ignore me.

By the way, Mao Tse Tung was an atheist and killed 20 million. That is but one example of an atheist killing millions. If you want to respond, at least say something sensical.

[sharkman]

By "religious idiots", I'm assuming you mean, fighters or "terrorists" as Israel calls anyone who fights back against it.

There is a world beyond the simple bubble you have created for yourself. Your narrative always has a lot of holes in it. It sounds like your selective memory forgot that over 1500 innocent civilians were killed in the last attack by Israel. Meaning that majority of the people that Israel kills are innocent civilians. Innocent civilians that Israel did not have to kill.

If you want to play tit for tat, then the fanatics on the Palestinian side still have a long ways to go, before they can say: "Well. There we go. We've killed just as many innocent civilians on their side! We're all even now!"

You're making excuses for those that fire missiles into Israel in a carpet bombing strategy, trying to kill as many civilians as they can. Or strap bombs onto their bodies and sneak into the crowded market places in order to blow up innocents in order to gain religious rewards. And this latest one, bringing axes, etc., into a church so they could kill people of the cloth.

Look, here's the deal. Arabs have been trying to wipe out Israel ever since it became a nation in 1948. Hopefully you are capable to see that simple fact. They even tried a sneak attack on a Jewish religious day trying to catch them off guard, and it almost worked. But Israel has fought them off each time, and the Arab nations gave up on official war because they can't beat them that way.

So instead of accepting reality that Jews deserve a nation of their own, and trying to create a homeland for Palestine, say each bordering nation give some land, to which Israel would have probably kicked some in too back in the 70's, they get bitter, deranged, and fill their heads with idiocy. Israel wants peace. There is no one on the other side to make peace with, and until you racists realize that, your reality will be out somewhere in the twilight zone.

Edited November 20, 2014 by sharkman

[sharkman]

...

By the way, Mao Tse Tung was an atheist and killed 20 million. That is but one example of an atheist killing millions. If you want to respond, at least say something sensical.

The lack of basic knowledge of history among the atheist crew is beyond pathetic. Any person of integrity would do simple research so they learn a thing or two about the terms they throw around and the empty headed ideas they make up as they go. Oh well.

[Bonam]

By the way, Mao Tse Tung was an atheist and killed 20 million. That is but one example of an atheist killing millions. If you want to respond, at least say something sensical.

The lack of basic knowledge of history among the atheist crew is beyond pathetic. Any person of integrity would do simple research so they learn a thing or two about the terms they throw around and the empty headed ideas they make up as they go. Oh well.

Depends what you mean by religion, really. The belief, based purely on faith, in something not supported by evidence, is one aspect of religion. Following given precepts or principles or rituals is another. Believing in communism was certainly an example of both of those. There was no more evidence that communism would produce a functioning society than there was evidence that blowing yourself up would end you up with 72 virgins. To act on either is equally destructive, equally irrational. In fact, it should have been obvious to anyone not brainwashed and able to exercise their faculties of reason that slaughtering millions of people would produce the opposite of progress.While communism never described itself as a religion, the psychological effects and requirements were the same.

In fact, that was why communist regimes tried to eradicate, ban, or suppress existing religions, since communism tried to occupy the same place in people's minds, it had to be rid of all competitors. Believe, suffer for now, and you will end up in a better world tomorrow! That was the promise of communism, just as it is the promise of many religions, contradicting all tangible evidence. In other words, communist regimes were not atheists, they were believers in the religion of communism. The fact that they did not consider communism a religion does not make it less of one; It is a difference only of semantics.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Bonam

[jbg]

This is a callous and inhumane act.

Unfortunately, some of those who are enraged by the act, like the Rue's, hold very little credibility since they are selective on the worth of people's lives. On many occasions, the Rue's have tried to excuse the astounding number of murdered innocent Palestinians, committed by the Israeli military. At the end of it all, these killings of innocent people could have been prevented. The killing of innocent civilians, whether Palestinian or Jewish are the fault of the culture of hatred and revenge and those who excuse them.

I guess in your view collateral damage committed by the IDF is worse than a massacre of Jews by others? Rich.

[jbg]

There was no more evidence that communism would produce a functioning society than there was evidence that blowing yourself up would end you up with 72 virgins.

Either way you have to be pretty pious to be willing to kill yourself in order to kill many more to please whatever your G-d is.