Surprise! Israel refuses cooperation with UN Gaza war probe

[jbg]

Who cares? Does Israel use those countries and territories as examples of what it wants to be? Is that what you're trying to say?

Your sanctimonious response would, if adopted by Israel, doom its existence as a Jewish state.

[Rue]

Asking that Israel be recognized as the Jewish state of Israel has been the pith and substance of the crisis since 1948 is not new. When Abbas kept insisting Israel only be recognized as a Muslim state then it then Netanyahu explicity mentioned in response to those words recognizing Israel only if it turned Muslim was not an option. That is not new. It became necessary to put it out on the table when Abbas put out on the table he wanted attached to his recognition of Israel the fact he wanted it to become Muslim majority as the ONLY resolution to peace with Israel. That's not new. That semantic game has been played since 1948.

It is absolutely absurd to suggest its new for Israel to want to be recognized as a Jewish state. It fact it is the most stupid thing I have ever read on this board about Israel. The very refusal to accept Zionism is the refusal to recognize a Jewish state. To say the Arab League of Nations or terrorists have never refused to recognize a Jewish state and that is the issue, and its something Israel suddenly brought up is past stupid.

As for Jacee's ridiculous comment that when Canada recognizes a Muslim state it does not recognize it as a Muslim state can she please like the rest of her entourage, just once, once in their lives, go read the constitution of sharia law nations and why when Canada recognizes them, necessarilys recognizes their sovereignty which means their sharia law identity. The ignorance is painful. How someone can come on this board and say, we recognize Saudi Arabia as a state but we don't recognize its Islamic laws within its state when we recognize that state is beyond me,

Now Jacee argues we live in a fantasy land where if I get her line of reasoning clear states, " like you know we recognize countries but like you know like only like only certain parts which we like sort of like and then like we can ignore like the rest so like we just like ignore their laws and constitutions and they go poof eh, and we just recognize maybe their beards." No wait that's not obtuse, calling a Jewish state a Jewish state though is.

Where is my lorazepam.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Rue

[marcus]

Your sanctimonious response would, if adopted by Israel, doom its existence as a Jewish state.

Israel's existence within the legal, internationally recognized border is not in jeopardy. Only Israel's colonialist activities in the Occupied Territories which includes the theft of Palestinian land is in jeopardy. This is what all of this is about.

[GostHacked]

Israel's existence within the legal, internationally recognized border is not in jeopardy. Only Israel's colonialist activities in the Occupied Territories which includes the theft of Palestinian land is in jeopardy. This is what all of this is about.

I've heard a few speeches from Netanyahu. One point he likes to talk about is that Israel is only X kms wide. A narrow amount of land that is hard to defend against the enemy. Israel would be 'run over'. But as we have seen before, Israel managed to stand, and gain ground.The West Bank is occupied to gain more land to have a bigger buffer between Arab states and Tel Aviv, or whatever city they call their capital now. The barrier alone cannot prevent attacks, so occupying the land on the other side of the wall is also beneficial to them.

[Big Guy]

Amnesty International, a non government human rights organization, has released a report accusing Israel of war crimes during its latest foray into Gaza.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30393540

It accuses Israel of targeting non military housing apartments. Amnesty International is a world wide respected agency purported to be neutral in political and geo political activities.

The Palestinians were trounced in the shooting war but it looks like they are winning the public relations war.

I guess shooting wonky rockets which may hit something in Israel is far worse than targeting high density residential apartment buildings with high tech bombs in Gaza.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Big Guy

[overthere]

Amnesty International, a non government human rights organization, has released a report accusing Israel of war crimes during its latest foray into Gaza.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30393540

It accuses Israel of targeting non military housing apartments. Amnesty International is a world wide respected agency purported to be neutral in political and geo political activities.

The Palestinians were trounced in the shooting war but it looks like they are winning the public relations war.

I guess shooting wonky rockets which may hit something in Israel is far worse than targeting high density residential apartment buildings with high tech bombs in Gaza.

When is Amnesty issuing Volume Two of that report, when they comment on shooting thousands of rockets at Israel?

[overthere]

Israel's existence within the legal, internationally recognized border is not in jeopardy. Only Israel's colonialist activities in the Occupied Territories which includes the theft of Palestinian land is in jeopardy. This is what all of this is about.

About 40 countries do not recognize Israels existence at all or any borders.

Blow that off.

Ten, nine, eight.....

[Hudson Jones]

About 40 countries do not recognize Israels existence at all or any borders.

Blow that off.

Ten, nine, eight.....

So what if they don't accept Israel as a state?

Israel exists.

Any time someone mentions anything about Israel's theft and annexation of land that belongs to the Palestinians, there is the automatic response of "OMG YOU DON'T ACCEPT ISRAEL!!!" from the Zionist crowd. There is a difference between Israel's legal borders and the land that they are annexing.

Why are you so worried about the existence of a country that already exists but fail to recognize that Israel is stealing land from the Palestinians who don't have a state and have a right to have a nation as well?

[overthere]

So what if they don't accept Israel as a state?

Israel exists.

Any time someone mentions anything about Israel's theft and annexation of land that belongs to the Palestinians, there is the automatic response of "OMG YOU DON'T ACCEPT ISRAEL!!!" from the Zionist crowd. There is a difference between Israel's legal borders and the land that they are annexing.

Why are you so worried about the existence of a country that already exists but fail to recognize that Israel is stealing land from the Palestinians who don't have a state and have a right to have a nation as well?

1. I'm not a Zionist, not a Jew, and not part of the Zionist crowd.

2, Stop profiling me, it is insulting to your intelligence.

3. The 40 countries don't just object to Israels borders in the Occupied Countries, they refuse to recognize the right of Israel to exist at all.

I understand it is difficult , but please try to differentiate between the first and last parts of that sentence.

Then consider what this means to Israel:

Israel: "The State of Israel would like to open meaningful and binding peace negotiations"

Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, Lebanon, Syria, Iram and about 37 others: " What is that awful smell? Did the Jews fart again"

[jbg]

I've heard a few speeches from Netanyahu. One point he likes to talk about is that Israel is only X kms wide. A narrow amount of land that is hard to defend against the enemy. Israel would be 'run over'.

Only preemptive attacks in 1956 and 1967 prevented that. And in 1948 Israel had a near-death experience in its cradle.

But as we have seen before, Israel managed to stand, and gain ground.

Israel stood and gained ground only after being attacked. The West Bank wasn't in play until Jordan joined the war effort on Egypt's side in 1967, despite Israel's pleas to Jordan to stay out.

The West Bank is occupied to gain more land to have a bigger buffer between Arab states and Tel Aviv, or whatever city they call their capital now.

Tel Aviv is not Israel's capital. I guess you can't bring yourself to say "Jerusalem" by name?

The barrier alone cannot prevent attacks, so occupying the land on the other side of the wall is also beneficial to them.

The barrier sure helps.

[Hudson Jones]

1. I'm not a Zionist, not a Jew, and not part of the Zionist crowd.

2, Stop profiling me, it is insulting to your intelligence.

3. The 40 countries don't just object to Israels borders in the Occupied Countries, they refuse to recognize the right of Israel to exist at all.

I understand it is difficult , but please try to differentiate between the first and last parts of that sentence.

Then consider what this means to Israel:

Israel: "The State of Israel would like to open meaningful and binding peace negotiations"

Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, Lebanon, Syria, Iram and about 37 others: " What is that awful smell? Did the Jews fart again"

Oh yes: "The State of Israel would like to open meaningful and binding peace negotiations"..

If you want to use that as a debating point, then you are extremely ignorant and need to first educate yourself, or you are purposely trying to push a false narrative.

[Hudson Jones]

Oh and.. Israel ALREADY exists.

A Palestinian State does not and the land that supposed to belong them is being annexed by Israel.

WHY do you have such a hard time discussing the extremely large gorilla in the room - Lack of a Palestinian State and the theft of Palestinian land by Israel?

[Hudson Jones]

Tel Aviv is not Israel's capital. I guess you can't bring yourself to say "Jerusalem" by name?

The international community does not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, and the city hosts no foreign embassies.

[overthere]

The international community does not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, and the city hosts no foreign embassies.

40 countries in that international community do not recognize

Oh yes: "The State of Israel would like to open meaningful and binding peace negotiations"..

If you want to use that as a debating point, then you are extremely ignorant and need to first educate yourself, or you are purposely trying to push a false narrative.

How can you debate anything when the human across the table refuses to see you?

Israel.

[jbg]

Amnesty International, a non government human rights organization, has released a report accusing Israel of war crimes during its latest foray into Gaza.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30393540******Amnesty International is a world wide respected agency purported to be neutral in political and geo political activities.

What a surprise. Amnesty spends an awful lot of time attacking the U.S. and Israel when much more serious atrocities are being conducted elsewhere.

It accuses Israel of targeting non military housing apartments.********The Palestinians were trounced in the shooting war but it looks like they are winning the public relations war.

What was Israel supposed to do if Hamas placed their rocket launchers and other military assets in or adjacent to civilian locations? Israel is not going to fight with both hands tied behind their back.

I guess shooting wonky rockets which may hit something in Israel is far worse than targeting high density residential apartment buildings with high tech bombs in Gaza.

The "wonky rockets" disrupt any ability to run an advanced society. If Gaza would stop making war maybe they wouldn't be targeted by Israeli weaponry.

When is Amnesty issuing Volume Two of that report, when they comment on shooting thousands of rockets at Israel?

On February 30, 2015. Or if they miss that deadline, April 31, 2015. Edited December 9, 2014 by jbg

[jbg]

2, Stop profiling me, it is insulting to your intelligence.

As far as the post to which you're responding, what intelligence? It's a dumb post even if the poster is extremely smart.

3. The 40 countries don't just object to Israels borders in the Occupied Countries, they refuse to recognize the right of Israel to exist at all.

They will recognize the geographical unit when it becomes Muslim-governed.

I understand it is difficult , but please try to differentiate between the first and last parts of that sentence.

Then consider what this means to Israel:

Israel: "The State of Israel would like to open meaningful and binding peace negotiations"

Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, Lebanon, Syria, Iram and about 37 others: " What is that awful smell? Did the Jews fart again"

Anti-Judaism, pure and simple.

[Hudson Jones]

40 countries in that international community do not recognize

You seem to be quite ignorant when it comes to this issue.

Even U.S. refuses to accept Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and that's why their embassy is not in Jerusalem, but in Tel Aviv.

[Big Guy]

There is no end to this continuing logic. In that last "expedition" into Gaza, the Israeli military killed about 2,200 civilians and suffered about 70 losses. Israel and other posters here defended that battle by claiming that it was an "appropriate response" because about 40 Israelis have been killed by wonky rockets over the last 10 years.

So if the killing of 2,200 civilians is an appropriate response to the killing of 40 civilians that works out to a ratio of 55 to 1. So if the Palestinians responded with a suicide attack on Tel Aviv that took 2,200*55=120,000 Israeli civilians then that would be an "appropriate response" to that Gaza invasion?

That would represent about one quarter of the population of Tel Aviv.

There is a reason why the Palestinians are winning the public relations war.

But of course that kind of logic or statement is Anti-Judaism and Anti-Semitic and Anti those who give Israel a free pass on anything it does.

So now Amnesty International and the UN and ... are all out to wipe the Jews off the face of the earth.

Give me a break!

[jbg]

So if the killing of 2,200 civilians is an appropriate response to the killing of 40 civilians that works out to a ratio of 55 to 1. So if the Palestinians responded with a suicide attack on Tel Aviv that took 2,200*55=120,000 Israeli civilians then that would be an "appropriate response" to that Gaza invasion?

Are you saying that the Israeli civilian population needs to accept a death risk when going to work or going about their business?

[eyeball]

The Israeli population does live in a democracy does it not? Of course they risk the consequences their government's actions cause. Whether they accept that is besides the point because the risk is inevitable.

[PrimeNumber]

Are you saying that the Israeli civilian population needs to accept a death risk when going to work or going about their business?

Are you saying they should kill 55 Palestinians going about their business for every one Israeli that has died going about their business?

With your logic I wonder how many Americans and Canadians we should be allowing middle eastern governments to kill for innocents accidentally or intentionally bombed in those countries. It would be an "appropriate response" right?

[Bonam]

Of course they risk the consequences their government's actions cause.

It's not their government that's invaded Israel repeatedly. It's not their government that engaged in decades of suicide bombings. And it's not their government that continuously launches rockets at them.

[Bonam]

Are you saying they should kill 55 Palestinians going about their business for every one Israeli that has died going about their business?

It's not a matter of killing x Palestinians per Israeli. What nonsense. It's a matter of taking out specific targets, like places where rockets are stored or launched from, places where known militants or leaders are located, etc. And yes, in Gaza, targeting these things means civilian casualties will happen too, since Hamas operates within the civilian population.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Bonam

[Bonam]

There is a reason why the Palestinians are winning the public relations war.

Yes there's a reason... that being that people are stupid. Bad ideas win public relations wars all the time.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Bonam

[PrimeNumber]

It's not a matter of killing x Palestinians per Israeli. What nonsense. It's a matter of taking out specific targets, like places where rockets are stored or launched from, places where known militants or leaders are located, etc. And yes, in Gaza, targeting these things means civilian casualties will happen too, since Hamas operates within the civilian population.

So it's okay to kill innocent children to bomb a couple of soldiers in the name of Allah, errr wait scratch that, in the name of God?

The reality is about 70% of the people killed on both sides are innocent. So how about we, in the western world, stop supporting a religious war on both sides?

Edited December 10, 2014 by PrimeNumber