Remembrance Day Contemplation

Bonam · November 12, 2014

Once again, they may have had the inclination, but they didn't have the population or the wherewithal to achieve anything like that. Nazism would have died a natural death without all the shoot 'em up.

They had the capacity to take over Western Europe up to France and eastern Europe to within miles of St.Petersburg and Moscow, and that was with both the Western allies and the USSR fighting them with everything they had. Without any resistance, they would have simply continued on with the unchallenged blitzkreig strategy to swell their territory even more. Yes, maybe they could not have held onto that much territory long term. But they didn't need long term to exterminate millions of people, not with their industrial innovations in mass extermination.

Of course it's impossible to know what exactly would have happened in some alternate timeline, as the course of events in human history depends on an untold multitude of factors.

But the short story is that the Nazi regime was evil, its philosophy stated that exterminating all lesser peoples was a noble goal, and they took every step they could toward that goal. The faster a stop could be put to them, the better.

Evil ideologies don't all die a natural death promptly. Just look at how long the USSR under its communist regime lasted, and how many tens of millions it slaughtered in its efforts. Look at China's communist period which was a state of complete tyranny and also responsible for tens millions of deaths. And look even today at North Korea. Or Islamic theocracies. Or look even at how long the practice of slavery lasted in the West before it at last died. These abhorrent ideologies don't die as quickly as you might wish.

On Guard for Thee · November 12, 2014

They had the capacity to take over Western Europe up to France and eastern Europe to within miles of St.Petersburg and Moscow, and that was with both the Western allies and the USSR fighting them with everything they had. Without any resistance, they would have simply continued on with the unchallenged blitzkreig strategy to swell their territory even more. Yes, maybe they could not have held onto that much territory long term. But they didn't need long term to exterminate millions of people, not with their industrial innovations in mass extermination.

Of course it's impossible to know what exactly would have happened in some alternate timeline, as the course of events in human history depends on an untold multitude of factors.

But the short story is that the Nazi regime was evil, its philosophy stated that exterminating all lesser peoples was a noble goal, and they took every step they could toward that goal. The faster a stop could be put to them, the better.

Evil ideologies don't all die a natural death promptly. Just look at how long the USSR under its communist regime lasted, and how many tens of millions it slaughtered in its efforts. Look at China's communist period which was a state of complete tyranny and also responsible for tens millions of deaths. And look even today at North Korea. Or Islamic theocracies. Or look even at how long the practice of slavery lasted in the West before it at last died. These abhorrent ideologies don't die as quickly as you might wish.

Well of course they don't die as quickly as anyone would wish. However Nazi Germany didn't have enough "gas in the tank" to complete anything like they claimed they would. At the time the threat was perceived as real and so off to war we went. But essentially needlessly. We should endeavor not to make that mistake again.

Bonam · November 12, 2014

Well of course they don't die as quickly as anyone would wish. However Nazi Germany didn't have enough "gas in the tank" to complete anything like they claimed they would. At the time the threat was perceived as real and so off to war we went. But essentially needlessly. We should endeavor not to make that mistake again.

That's literally nothing but your empty opinion. They had enough gas in the tank to take over most of Europe (and North Africa), and that was with stiff opposition. Really not sure what the heck you're on about.

Oh well, whatever, enjoy your reputation as the guy who says we shoulda left the Nazis be.

On Guard for Thee · November 12, 2014

That's literally nothing but your empty opinion. They had enough gas in the tank to take over most of Europe (and North Africa), and that was with stiff opposition. Really not sure what the heck you're on about.

Oh well, whatever, enjoy your reputation as the guy who says we shoulda left the Nazis be.

Maybe go grab a history book and fill your empty head with some real knowledge.And perhaps learn how to read properly, I didn't indicate we Shoulda, as you put it, I discussed what might have happened if we woulda.

Bonam · November 12, 2014

Maybe go grab a history book and fill your empty head with some real knowledge.

:lol:

On Guard for Thee · November 12, 2014

I bet you had to think long and hard about that.

Bonam · November 12, 2014

I bet you had to think long and hard about that.

Oh yes, it took many hours of intense contemplation.

Hal 9000 · November 12, 2014

Well of course they don't die as quickly as anyone would wish. However Nazi Germany didn't have enough "gas in the tank" to complete anything like they claimed they would. At the time the threat was perceived as real and so off to war we went. But essentially needlessly. We should endeavor not to make that mistake again.

Ok, so you think that we should have remembrance day...or something of a "we made a mistake day". You think that having planes fly-by and cannons as a tribute is "glorification" so what? should we should leave the military out of remembrance day? You think all wars were a mistake and we shoulda left the Nazis alone.

You don't understand that these war veterans want this, that it means a lot to them (and their fallen mates) to be recognized for their sacrifice. I know a few WW2 vets and more than the crowds and politicians, they want to be honoured by the next generation of Canadian solider and the cannons and planes are very much a part of how their new brothers and sisters honour them. You don't care for the message? Boo fucking Hoo, it's not up to you to even have an opinion, just show your respect or stfu. But, you lefties always pull out the elitist BS attitude and think the world wants to hear your opinion.

How can you even pretend that you respect or honour these people...in any way. You disgust me!

Edited November 12, 2014 by Hal 9000

On Guard for Thee · November 12, 2014

Ok, so you think that we should have remembrance day...or something of a "we made a mistake day". You think that having planes fly-by and cannons as a tribute is "glorification" so what? should we should leave the military out of remembrance day? You think all wars were a mistake and we shoulda left the Nazis alone.

You don't understand that these war veterans want this, that it means a lot to them (and their fallen mates) to be recognized for their sacrifice. I know a few WW2 vets and more than the crowds and politicians, they want to be honoured by the next generation of Canadian solider and the cannons and planes are very much a part of how their new brothers and sisters honour them. You don't care for the message? Boo fucking Hoo, it's not up to you to even have an opinion, just show your respect or stfu. But, you lefties always pull out the elitist BS attitude and think the world wants to hear your opinion.

How can you even pretend that you respect or honour these people...in any way. You disgust me!

And I suspect you have just done a fine job of bringing that same type of assessment to yourself. You need to learn to read a little better.

Edited November 12, 2014 by On Guard for Thee

Hal 9000 · November 12, 2014

And I suspect you have just done a fine job of bringing that same type of assessment to yourself. You need to learn to read a little better.

I don't care what lip service you pay to the troops, go tell a WW2 vet that the Nazis were no big deal and i'll watch a 90 YO man slap your face. Punk!

On Guard for Thee · November 12, 2014

I don't care what lip service you pay to the troops, go tell a WW2 vet that the Nazis were no big deal and i'll watch a 90 YO man slap your face. Punk!

Guess what, I was just talking to a WWII vet on my street today. He agreed with me. Take that punk. And learn to read and comprehend.

Hal 9000 · November 12, 2014

Guess what, I was just talking to a WWII vet on my street today. He agreed with me. Take that punk. And learn to read and comprehend.

Well, I guess I should've expected that...what a coincidence!

On Guard for Thee · November 12, 2014

Well, I guess I should've expected that...what a coincidence!

Well I don't know what you were expecting, but understand there are actual vets who lived it who are not nearly so narrow minded as you seem to be. And God bless them.

Hal 9000 · November 12, 2014

Well I don't know what you were expecting, but understand there are actual vets who lived it who are not nearly so narrow minded as you seem to be. And God bless them.

I'm not narrow minded, I listen and don't question what vets tell me about WW2. Do I always agree? Not always, but I have enough respect to not offer my opinions on the war they fought.

P.S - I've never heard a vet ever suggest that going into WW2 was wrong...useless or whatever you say you're spewing to them. I don't believe you, but as I mentioned earlier, if anyone is gonna tell someone a BS thoughtless opinion, it would be a lefty elitist.

On Guard for Thee · November 12, 2014

I'm not narrow minded, I listen and don't question what vets tell me about WW2. Do I always agree? Not always, but I have enough respect to not offer my opinions on the war they fought.

P.S - I've never heard a vet ever suggest that going into WW2 was wrong...useless or whatever you say you're spewing to them. I don't believe you, but as I mentioned earlier, if anyone is gonna tell someone a BS thoughtless opinion, it would be a lefty elitist.

You're not narrow minded? Just re read your post. For instance, because you've never heard something you don't believe it. Anyway I wasn't "spewing" anything. I just asked him where he served and such. He brought up the whole waste of time it was.

marcus · November 12, 2014

Not at all. You don't seem to know that poppies are about sacrafice, honour, and loss

Why did we sacrifice people in Afghanistan?

I feel for the soldiers and their families. Whether people died, were maimed or became mentally crippled, most of the wars, especially the most recent ones have not been about "protecting our freedom".

Why can't we talk about that? Why is there so much sensitivity when it comes to questioning wars and questioning the narrative?

Why do we need to feed each other with lies? Why do we need to feed the kids at schools with lies? Why do we need to romanticize wars, especially to our kids, when they have very little to do about protecting us or our freedom?

Bonam · November 12, 2014

Why did we sacrifice people in Afghanistan?

I feel for the soldiers and their families. Whether people died, were maimed or became mentally crippled, most of the wars, especially the most recent ones have not been about "protecting our freedom".

Why can't we talk about that? Why is there so much sensitivity when it comes to questioning wars and questioning the narrative?

Sensitivity about questioning Afghanistan? Really? Afghanistan has been questioned to death, and rightly so. There's been no lack of questioning at all about Canada's military involvement in any conflict in the last couple decades.

marcus · November 12, 2014

Sensitivity about questioning Afghanistan? Really? Afghanistan has been questioned to death, and rightly so. There's been no lack of questioning at all about Canada's military involvement in any conflict in the last couple decades.

I agree. But on Remembrance Day, it's all about romanticizing wars and repeating the same old: "Protecting our Freedom" or "Sacrificing for our Freedom".

Edited November 12, 2014 by marcus

Bonam · November 12, 2014

I agree. But on Remembrance Day, it's all about romanticizing wars and repeating the same old: "Protecting our Freedom" or "Sacrificing for our Freedom".

Remembrance Day was made to commemorate members of the armed forces of the Commonwealth of Nations who died in the line of duty in WWI. Political squabbles about tiny non-wars that happened a century later have little relation or relevance.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Bonam

marcus · November 12, 2014

Remembrance Day was made to commemorate members of the armed forces of the Commonwealth of Nations who died in the line of duty in WWI. Political squabbles about tiny non-wars that happened a century later have little relation or relevance.

Not really. It's for all wars.

The federal Department of Veterans Affairs states that the date is of "remembrance for the men and women who have served, and continue to serve our country during times of war, conflict and peace"

Army Guy · November 12, 2014

I think Rememberance Day is alot larger than wearing a poppy, or remembering those who have sacrificed not only their lives, health, quality of life, just about everything any man or women holds near and dear to them that has been stripped away.

Rememberance Day means something different to everyone,and it is the one day of the year where we can reflect on those meanings regardless of what they are .....

Because we need to remember everything, the cost to our soliders, our families, our communities, our nation....we need to remember so we do not enter into future conflicts without some somber thinking...

We need to remember that wars produce nothing but sorrow, tears, bloodshed and great sacrifice. But we also need to remember that until man learns of a different method to solve issues without violence that they are sometimes nessicary. Because of that we need to remember each conflict and why we sent our nations soldiers into combat, we need to remember the cost of everything we sacraficed, we need to remember those citizens that volunteered to take up our governments cause. And we need to remember their sacrifices, it is a promise that our nation has given to them,

"We will Remember them"

For me Rememberence day, is emotional, painful, joyfull, one full of tears, laughter as we remember fallen comrads, after the ceremony we head to the local legion, 10 or 12 of us gather there every year, all guys that have eaten the same dirt in some far away place, most are civilians now retired from the military, but we all take the time to meet once a year, same spot, same table, one in the dark corner.........we tell the same stories about them year after year, mostly funney, but we also recount their last moments, and drink a few pints in their memory. To honor them, to keep their memories alive and well , to keep our promise to never forget...

We are not alone, the table next to us is a bunch of old vets that do the same thing, and have been for over 40 years....only difference is their table is getting smaller every year....

Michael Hardner · November 12, 2014

It's for all wars.

It's also to sell phones.

I'm happy to wear the poppy and honour current and past veterans - people I have known from all wars, who have made a choice to serve their country. I don't care that Bell Canada, or politicians may try to use the occasion or the symbol to achieve their own objectives.

Michael Hardner · November 12, 2014

Very well said, Army Guy, thank you for that.

I think Rememberance Day is alot larger than wearing a poppy, or remembering those who have sacrificed not only their lives, health, quality of life, just about everything any man or women holds near and dear to them that has been stripped away.

Rememberance Day means something different to everyone,and it is the one day of the year where we can reflect on those meanings regardless of what they are .....

Also, a note of optimism for you on this comment:

But we also need to remember that until man learns of a different method to solve issues without violence that they are sometimes nessicary.

It's easy for us to despair over the fact that war is still with us, that violence will never leave us.

Steven Pinker has published a book that puts forth a statistical argument that we are indeed living in the most peaceful era of human history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature

Pinker presents a large amount of data (and statistical analysis thereof) that, he argues, demonstrate that violence has been in decline over millennia and that the present is probably the most peaceful time in the history of the human species. The decline in violence, he argues, is enormous in magnitude, visible on both long and short time scales, and found in many domains, including military conflict, homicide, genocide, torture, criminal justice, treatment of children, homosexuals, animals and racial and ethnic minorities.

jacee · November 12, 2014

I think Rememberance Day is alot larger than wearing a poppy, or remembering those who have sacrificed not only their lives, health, quality of life, just about everything any man or women holds near and dear to them that has been stripped away.

Rememberance Day means something different to everyone,and it is the one day of the year where we can reflect on those meanings regardless of what they are .....

Because we need to remember everything, the cost to our soliders, our families, our communities, our nation....we need to remember so we do not enter into future conflicts without some somber thinking...

We need to remember that wars produce nothing but sorrow, tears, bloodshed and great sacrifice. But we also need to remember that until man learns of a different method to solve issues without violence that they are sometimes nessicary. Because of that we need to remember each conflict and why we sent our nations soldiers into combat, we need to remember the cost of everything we sacraficed, we need to remember those citizens that volunteered to take up our governments cause. And we need to remember their sacrifices, it is a promise that our nation has given to them,

"We will Remember them"

For me Rememberence day, is emotional, painful, joyfull, one full of tears, laughter as we remember fallen comrads, after the ceremony we head to the local legion, 10 or 12 of us gather there every year, all guys that have eaten the same dirt in some far away place, most are civilians now retired from the military, but we all take the time to meet once a year, same spot, same table, one in the dark corner.........we tell the same stories about them year after year, mostly funney, but we also recount their last moments, and drink a few pints in their memory. To honor them, to keep their memories alive and well , to keep our promise to never forget...

We are not alone, the table next to us is a bunch of old vets that do the same thing, and have been for over 40 years....only difference is their table is getting smaller every year....

I totally agree, Army Guy.

For any vets younger and older I've ever spoken to or heard interviewed, it's always a remembrance of the ones who didn't come back, and a reminder of the "sombre thinking" required about any future decisions that put soldiers in harm's way.

Those are often political decisions and sometimes politicians DO seek glory through the sacrifices of soldiers ... and it is everybody's responsibility to make our wishes clear to them and hold them accountable for every death and injury ... AND to make sure that injured soldiers are treated respectfully and cared for adequately.

.

GostHacked · November 12, 2014

Personally, I wear the poppy and attend the ceremonies to pay my respects to those that have served and thank those that continue to do so. Though I may disagree with the cheering and clapping politicians that send our sons and daughters into battle, I still respect the hell out of anyone willing to put her/his ass on the line for me. They don't get to pick the fights, they are just called upon to serve on command.

Politicians should be offering up their sons and daughters first.