2 more liberal MP's gone.

[jacee]

I think this issue is going to escalate and nobody is going to come out looking good. Personally I blame the deteriorating toxic atmosphere in Ottawa. One possible way of having a resolution would have been that Trudeau, Mulcair and Harper sit down, in camera, and discuss possible resolutions with the intent of establishing a process acceptable to all. These days, that could never happen.

In this time of "Gotcha" politics, distrust and dislike between members of different parties, no one would trust the other to NOT politicize this human resources issue with the focus on just the resolution to the problem.

Now we have a situation where at least two political careers are ruined (the two Liberal MP's) perhaps the careers of two NDP MP's (if the accusations prove to be unfounded or non existent) and an even greater distrust of politicians of each other. Where Canadians end up suffering for this is that the job of ALL our representatives is supposed to be working (in partnership) for the betterment of ALL Canadians.

Legislatures across the country are infested with sexism and sexual harassment.

/allegations_suggest_old_habits_die_hard_on_parliament_hill_hbert

The allegations that have surfaced this week suggest that some old habits die hard including that of sweeping harassment issues under the rug.

Few are more vulnerable to allegations of personal misconduct than elected politicians and there has long been an implicit gentlemens agreement (pun intended) between the parties to deal with such matters under the radar.

Until now . . . .

Who can forget Peter Mackay:

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/?service=mobile

It's one of the reasons women don't get involved in politics, or quit. Maybe this is the time they get exposed. Maybe women reps across the country will come forward with more issues.

I certainly hope so.

.

Edited November 9, 2014 by jacee

[Keepitsimple]

Legislatures across the country are infested with sexism and sexual harassment.

It's one of the reasons women don't get involved in politics, or quit. Maybe this is the time they get exposed. Maybe women reps across the country will come forward with more issues.

I certainly hope so.

So do we all. I think before we throw politicians under the bus, we have to understand that politics is a different animal. In Provincial and Federal politics especially, elected officials are away from home for extended periods - and usually working long hours. People are not perfect - and when you consider that there are hundreds of MPs and MPPs that come from cities, small towns and even farms - all across the country, it's not surprising that a few of them would step out of line. I would say it's inevitable.

[WWWTT]

I haven't said that yet....ever, and I'm not saying it now.

The more accurate term is that you implied it.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

So do we all. I think before we throw politicians under the bus, we have to understand that politics is a different animal. In Provincial and Federal politics especially, elected officials are away from home for extended periods - and usually working long hours. People are not perfect - and when you consider that there are hundreds of MPs and MPPs that come from cities, small towns and even farms - all across the country, it's not surprising that a few of them would step out of line. I would say it's inevitable.

Sounds like you have justified the behaviour.

WWWTT

[jacee]

So do we all. I think before we throw politicians under the bus, we have to understand that politics is a different animal. In Provincial and Federal politics especially, elected officials are away from home for extended periods - and usually working long hours. People are not perfect - and when you consider that there are hundreds of MPs and MPPs that come from cities, small towns and even farms - all across the country, it's not surprising that a few of them would step out of line. I would say it's inevitable.

Cheating on their spouses, if that's what you're suggesting, is their private business, not a crime.

Politicians who sexually harass or assault women ... that's everybody's business.

.

Edited November 9, 2014 by jacee

[Smallc]

Sexual harassment is such a vague term that it's nearly meaningless.

[cybercoma]

Sexual harassment is such a vague term that it's nearly meaningless.

You have the privilege to find it meaningless.

[Peter F]

Sexual harassment is such a vague term that it's nearly meaningless.

Probably to the harasser...but I bet the harassee will not be vague at all about what sexual harassment is.

[Big Guy]

If you feel that somebody has harassed you and you feel it is sexual in nature then it is sexual harassment. The challenge comes in creating a standard of what is unacceptable and another standard for what is actionable. A same statement of one worker to another worker may result in them having a date or one complaining to management of sexual harassment. Intent has a lot to do with the definition. Persistence after warning will result in action.

In the majority of cases it is a "he said, she said" scenario where the accused should be treated as innocent until proven guilty. For that reason the onus is on the accuser to prove their allegation with third part witnesses or other evidence.

I think that in this case, it appears that there is no real evidence so the accuser is going to be in a very difficult position to prove her case. If there was any evidence then I believe that Mulcair would have acted when he was first told a while ago.

I believe that this will not end well for anybody involved.

[Argus]

Probably to the harasser...but I bet the harassee will not be vague at all about what sexual harassment is.

Yes, but not everyone's definition will be the same. That's why most organizations have a policy which contains a neutral and reasonable definition.

And, btw, I have dealt with one complainant whose definition was wildly unreasonable. Basically she complained about everything under the sun, including the sometimes sexual talk among other women at lunch.

[Argus]

If you feel that somebody has harassed you and you feel it is sexual in nature then it is sexual harassment.

Not if you're crazy.

[Keepitsimple]

Cheating on their spouses, if that's what you're suggesting, is their private business, not a crime.

Sorry you're wrong there.....cheating on their wives by harassing a co-worker is not their "private business".

[On Guard for Thee]

Sorry you're wrong there.....cheating on their wives by harassing a co-worker is not their "private business".

You can cheat on your spouse without harassing someone. It's done all the time. Harassment is something totally different.

[Keepitsimple]

Probably to the harasser...but I bet the harassee will not be vague at all about what sexual harassment is.

Sexual harassment (not assault) is such a sensitive area and in some cases goes to the sensitivity of the person being harassed. I'm no Prince Charming but I can honestly say that I've had far more sexual innuendos thrown my way by women than the other way around - but I choose to either be complimented or embarrassed - as almost all men do. I have witnessed several women on the other hand who have shown a highly inflated sense of their sexuality and have acted indignantly at the smallest of ogles or comments. It's a huge minefield that is best handled confidentially through an HR process that hopefully leads to recognition and an apology.

[On Guard for Thee]

So do we all. I think before we throw politicians under the bus, we have to understand that politics is a different animal. In Provincial and Federal politics especially, elected officials are away from home for extended periods - and usually working long hours. People are not perfect - and when you consider that there are hundreds of MPs and MPPs that come from cities, small towns and even farms - all across the country, it's not surprising that a few of them would step out of line. I would say it's inevitable.

That's an excuse and a pretty damn flimsy one. I myself spent a number of years were I was away from home and out of the country slightly more over 50% of the time and it never crossed my mind to force myself on anyone sexually or any other way for that matter.

[Keepitsimple]

You can cheat on your spouse without harassing someone. It's done all the time. Harassment is something totally different.

My point was clear - politicians from all over the province or country (men and women) living away from home and working long hours with the opposite sex are in a different working environment that most people. People aren't perfect and the ones that might be a little less "proper" - well, their moral warts might be exposed and they become an unwelcome, crass person. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't excuse it. It's just a fact of life.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[Keepitsimple]

That's an excuse and a pretty damn flimsy one. I myself spent a number of years were I was away from home and out of the country slightly more over 50% of the time and it never crossed my mind to force myself on anyone sexually or any other way for that matter.

You're talking about sexual assault - that's a crime, period. Harassment is a different animal.

[On Guard for Thee]

You're talking about sexual assault - that's a crime, period. Harassment is a different animal.

Sexual assault is more clearly defined by the criminal code but there is also a section dealing with harassment which is also an indictable offense.

[Keepitsimple]

Sexual assault is more clearly defined by the criminal code but there is also a section dealing with harassment which is also an indictable offense.

You're talking about stalking and cyber-bullying.....not the typical workplace sexual harassment that this thread is about.

[On Guard for Thee]

You're talking about stalking and cyber-bullying.....not the typical workplace sexual harassment that this thread is about.

I think if you take a look at the title of this thread you will see it started up about the 2 Liberal MP's that have been suspended. No indication of sexual harassment there...yet.

[Hal 9000]

Sexual harassment (not assault) is such a sensitive area and in some cases goes to the sensitivity of the person being harassed. I'm no Prince Charming but I can honestly say that I've had far more sexual innuendos thrown my way by women than the other way around - but I choose to either be complimented or embarrassed - as almost all men do. I have witnessed several women on the other hand who have shown a highly inflated sense of their sexuality and have acted indignantly at the smallest of ogles or comments. It's a huge minefield that is best handled confidentially through an HR process that hopefully leads to recognition and an apology.

It also depends somewhat on who the "offender" is. For example, if you looked like Brad Pitt and made a comment or innuendo, I'm pretty sure most woman would gush with flattery as opposed to if you looked like Nick Nolte's mug shot.

[Hal 9000]

You have the privilege to find it meaningless.

I'm pretty sure Smallc was referring to the term being meaningless, not the action.

I'm sure you and Peter F actually know that and are just skewing his post to paint him as something else...right?

[Smallc]

You have the privilege to find it meaningless.

There are definitely real cases. The term however is far to wide.

[Keepitsimple]

I think if you take a look at the title of this thread you will see it started up about the 2 Liberal MP's that have been suspended. No indication of sexual harassment there...yet.

What point are you trying to make?

[On Guard for Thee]

What point are you trying to make?

You seem to be unsure of whether this is a case of harassment or assault.