bush_cheney2004 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) He was a visible minority in that he belonged to an Indian Tribe. No...belonging to an "Indian Tribe" does not make him a "visible minority", not even in the country that defines such racist nonsense: According to the Employment Equity Act of 1995, the definition of visible minority is: “members of visible minorities” means persons, other than aboriginal peoples, who are non-Caucasian in race or non-white in colour; Edited October 26, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
ReeferMadness Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 The price of freedom. I thought it was the price of a culture of paranoia and gun obsession. The US has a clear lead but our government is working hard for us to close the gap. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
On Guard for Thee Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Only people of your ilk are using it for political purposes. People of my "ilk" don't like the idea of dead students sprawled around a high school cafeteria after a teen borrows his daddy's pistol to settle some score over his girlfriend jilting or some such. What do people of your ilk think of it? Quote
jbg Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) No...belonging to an "Indian Tribe" does not make him a "visible minority", not even in the country that defines such racist nonsense: In the U.S. it's "discrete and insular minority." See the famous United States v. Carolene Products Co. 304 U.S. 144 (1938), fn. 4 (link) "There may be narrower scope for operation of the presumption of constitutionality when legislation appears on its face to be within a specific prohibition of the Constitution, such as those of the first ten amendments, which are deemed equally specific when held to be embraced within the Fourteenth. **** whether prejudice against discrete and insular minorities may be a special condition, which tends seriously to curtail the operation of those political processes ordinarily to be relied upon to protect minorities, and which may call for a correspondingly more searching judicial inquiry. Compare McCulloch v. Maryland, 4 Wheat. 316, 428; South Carolina v. Barnwell Bros., 303 U.S. 177, 184, n 2, and cases cited." Edited October 26, 2014 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Derek 2.0 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 I agree. I'm sure he took the firearms laws very seriously when planning and executing his attempted massacre. But the same can be said of any law no? Quote
jbg Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 But the same can be said of any law no? Probably. But my point was whether the firearms laws helped here. I sincerely doubt they did. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
sharkman Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 You're Canadian, aren't you? Yep. If a person has gone off the rails and wants to kill someone, no law can prevent it. I think there will always be murders. The question is, why so many? Is it possible to convince a mentally healthy young person that Allah wants them to join a rabid army and bring about a Caliphate(a word you don't hear much of in the Media). Mostly, no. The person has to be in a certain mental state, desperate and weak. In this case, it isn't normal for a teenager to reach for a weapon if he loses a girl friend. Something was wrong there that the media will never search for, just like they never dug for the truth in Ferguson, and had to be dragged to it. Stronger gun laws will not stop those that are in this state. You can't stop people from going off the rails. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Probably. But my point was whether the firearms laws helped here. I sincerely doubt they did. And with the OP, did laws against carrying guns in schools or homicide prevent this crime? And that is my point. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 And with the OP, did laws against carrying guns in schools or homicide prevent this crime? And that is my point. Agreed. We should consider your question. But it's not only prevention, laws can also reduce impacts of crime. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Probably. But my point was whether the firearms laws helped here. I sincerely doubt they did. As per my note above, they may have lowered the impact of the crime, eg. not allowing automatic weapons. The idea that collective response to such crimes (in the form of security, cultural and health system policy) has no impact is mystifying to me. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Derek 2.0 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Agreed. We should consider your question. But it's not only prevention, laws can also reduce impacts of crime. Certainly, in a case such as this (or Sandy Hook) where the shooters stole the firearms from family members, something as simple as safe storage laws (requirement for the owner to keep guns in a safe) could go a long way in preventing similar crimes. Would it prevent it from ever happening? No, but then as pointed out, laws are broken. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 And with the OP, did laws against carrying guns in schools or homicide prevent this crime? And that is my point. Nope....sure didn't prevent that or many other school shootings. I live in a concealed carry state so many businesses post signs like these; I am sure that criminals stand up and take notice ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Certainly, in a case such as this (or Sandy Hook) where the shooters stole the firearms from family members, something as simple as safe storage laws (requirement for the owner to keep guns in a safe) could go a long way in preventing similar crimes. Would it prevent it from ever happening? No, but then as pointed out, laws are broken. "Safe storage laws"? like the grocery stores in the US where you can walk in with an AR 15 but your kid can't bring in his/her ice cream cone? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Certainly, in a case such as this (or Sandy Hook) where the shooters stole the firearms from family members, something as simple as safe storage laws (requirement for the owner to keep guns in a safe) could go a long way in preventing similar crimes. Would it prevent it from ever happening? No, but then as pointed out, laws are broken. Right. And it brings to mind the entire question of supply and availability of weapons. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Derek 2.0 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Right. And it brings to mind the entire question of supply and availability of weapons. Supply is moot when the supply within the States is measured in the hundreds of millions, and further compounded with the advent of 3D-guns.......likewise availability, but as stated in this case or Sandy Hook, the shooter was able to easily obtain firearms from a parent. If said guns were kept in safes does this mean either shootings wouldn't have happened? Its hard to say, but I think the apparent ease in which they did could be reduced, likewise cases of household accidents or common theft. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Supply is moot when the supply within the States is measured in the hundreds of millions, and further compounded with the advent of 3D-guns....... I don't think it's moot. Especially for general discussion, it's a factor. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Derek 2.0 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 I don't think it's moot. Especially for general discussion, it's a factor. Its politically moot........good enough? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Its politically moot........good enough? Agreed..it is politically and practically moot. This was learned after Sandy Hook....U.S. gun rights ain't going away anytime soon. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Derek 2.0 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Agreed..it is politically and practically moot. This was learned after Sandy Hook....U.S. gun rights ain't going away anytime soon. Exactly, and even the prospect of such talk results in the opposite desired result........As such, if one does desire positive results, one should look at "solutions" that are both realistic and palatable, well also actually being effective. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 Its politically moot........good enough? I know what you mean there. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Derek 2.0 Posted October 26, 2014 Report Posted October 26, 2014 I know what you mean there. I feel my position on the subject is well known, well also understanding the reality surrounding it.......That is not to say there aren't proposals that are both realistic and effective, well also lending a common ground for both sides......... Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted October 27, 2014 Report Posted October 27, 2014 Agreed..it is politically and practically moot. This was learned after Sandy Hook....U.S. gun rights ain't going away anytime soon. And obviously, neither are school shootings. Quote
GostHacked Posted October 27, 2014 Report Posted October 27, 2014 Supply is moot when the supply within the States is measured in the hundreds of millions, and further compounded with the advent of 3D-guns.......likewise availability The p3d printed guns fear is unwarranted. There are only a few thousand 3d printers out there. Only a small number are being used to print plastic guns that fall apart after a couple shots. Even if you put all the laws in place, one can still easily acquire a gun through illegal means. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 27, 2014 Report Posted October 27, 2014 Even if you put all the laws in place, one can still easily acquire a gun through illegal means.How easily depends on the availability of guns. Quote
GostHacked Posted October 27, 2014 Report Posted October 27, 2014 How easily depends on the availability of guns. And I would say it's not really that easy. Where would one even start to look? Talk to the Hells Angels at your local titty bar? Quote
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