Uber has no hope in this town

[kraychik]

Ever get into an accident with somebody that does not have insurance? No, I guess not or you would not persist in this. Yeah, people who ride Uber can pretend they assume the risk, but no f**king way do they or you get to foist that risk on me or my family.

I want my government to insist that every private vehcicle on the road have insurance, and to prosecute those that do not.

I don't give a rats ass about middle men and their license. Give everybody a license for free if you want. Include them on milk cartons. But every public carrier./taxi must have adequate insurnace and be able to prove that.

That seems fair to me. Our beef is with extortion through licensing.

[Freddy]

If there is a way to exploit licences and regulation, humans are the best animals to figure out how. It's what where good at.

[Boges]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qA8HcFpgfg&feature=youtu.be

Edited September 11, 2015 by Boges

[Boges]

Stupid Cab Drivers

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/12/09/taxi-drivers-protest-against-uberx.html

Traffic is at a crawl on southbound Highway 427 this morning as cab drivers protesting against UberX make their way to a downtown rally.

Things are also slow around Queen’s Park Circle morning as cab drivers make their way around the legislature before heading to city hall for a protest against the ride-sharing service.

As many as 2,000 cab drivers had been expected to join in the all-day demonstration, Sajid Mughal, president of the TaxiWorkers Association , told the Star.

Wheel-Trans service will not be disrupted, he assured.

“The plan is tomorrow not to disrupt the public or the traffic, try to be as organized as possible,” he said.

That's going to make more people use Uber, not less.

[H10]

Why doesn't Uber just become like Beck and buy a bunch of plates on the free market and run its own fleet and comply with the law like everyone else?

[Boges]

Why doesn't Uber just become like Beck and buy a bunch of plates on the free market and run its own fleet and comply with the law like everyone else?

Because that would limit the number cars they can have on the road.

The idea that a license to give people rides for money should be treated like a commodity it the thing that needs changing.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Boges

[eyeball]

Taxi-drivers need to get with the program and either tell the licence holders they lease licences from to go piss up a rope or demand the government buy-back the licences they're responsible for producing in the first place.

The money the licenced taxi industry is talking about losing is money that is simply flowing to some owner and a government both of whom rarely if ever lift a finger to earn. The original idea to limit entry into a pool for which there are only a certain number of jobs through licencing is sound enough, the problem is when governments remove or fail to put in place limits on the number of licences an individual can own. This allows and encourages the concentration of ownership into a smaller pool of owners. Governments come to love this arrangement because now they get annual fees plus sales tax the owner pays when leasing out their licences. Owners then turn around and squeeze this cost plus any increases out of the income of the poor schmuck doing all the work.

I've seen the same thing in the fishing industry. Last time I sold halibut for example I got $.15 a pound and the "businessman" I leased quota from got $3.85. Even the government made more than I did.

Go Uber go.

Edited December 10, 2015 by eyeball

[Black Dog]

Why doesn't Uber just become like Beck and buy a bunch of plates on the free market and run its own fleet and comply with the law like everyone else?

You understand that having to buy plates is compelling evidence that there's no free market, right?

The idea that a license to give people rides for money should be treated like a commodity it the thing that needs changing.

Why is that any different from, say, selling food you've cooked?

The taxi system is effed, but that doesn't mean unlicensed, unregulated cabs are a good idea.

[Boges]

Good article about how horrible the Taxi industry is.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/adventure/red-line/how-uber-is-ending-the-dirty-dealings-behind-torontos-cab-business/article25515301/

To get some fresh perspective, I took two rides last week – one in an Uber car, and one in a traditional Toronto taxi.

After installing the Uber app on my iPhone, the screen showed that there were at least half a dozen available cars nearby. The app said I could have a car in five minutes. I touched the icon, and the app announced that my car would be an Acura TSX, driven by David.

David and the Acura appeared on schedule. The car was nearly brand new, with a leather interior. I asked David about his job. He was a student, and paid his tuition by working for Uber. The setup was straightforward – David had gone into the Uber office, undergone a background check, had his car inspected, and set up a company account.

My fare was automatically charged to my credit card through the app. David carries no cash. Uber takes a 20 per cent cut, and pays David the rest. He can work whenever he wants simply by declaring himself available through the app. In a good week, he nets $1,000.

For my return trip, I called Diamond Taxi. The driver fit a template I knew only too well. He was a middle-aged immigrant man, stuck in the cab industry because there was nothing else. He’d been at work since 6 a.m. Like almost every other driver in the city, he didn’t own his car. Instead, he rented one for $80 per day. This was for a 12-hour day shift. Another driver rented the car at night for $90.

Driving a cab in Toronto sounds like dealing with the mob. You have to pay $80, or so, a day just for the privilege to be a cabbie.

If I was a cabby I'd stop paying to some rich, lucky plate owner this usary just to do business.

The city has bungled this up, they know they can't ban Uber because the only way to successfully charge a driver is to pose as a customer and then hand out tickets. And I'm sure there's better use to these Sunshine list cops than that, they have construction sites to stand around at and Speed traps to man.

The police chief was saying yesterday that it's impossible to prove someone is using Uber without access to that person's e-mail to prove the transaction was made. Not going to happen. Uber is here to stay.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Boges

[eyeball]

The city has bungled this up, they know they can't ban Uber because the only way to successfully charge a driver is to pose as a customer and then hand out tickets. And I'm sure there's better use to these Sunshine list cops than that, they have construction sites to stand around at and Speed traps to man.

Nor does the city want to face having to buy-back a fortune in useless licences.

I can see compensating the few independent owner-operators that exist but I don't have too much sympathy for the big players that you can bet lobbied the city to allow them to own and control as many licences as they could.

[eyeball]

The taxi system is effed, but that doesn't mean unlicensed, unregulated cabs are a good idea.

Uber cars are licenced and regulated just like anyone else by authorities.

The extra city licence is a completely different animal. As for concerns over insurance, holding uber drivers to a higher standard in not unreasonable but the old taxi industry and the city are trying to give the impression their expensive taxi licences and licensing system is the only way to ensure public safety, but it just ain't true.

[Boges]

Uber cars are licenced and regulated just like anyone else by authorities.

The extra city licence is a completely different animal. As for concerns over insurance, holding uber drivers to a higher standard in not unreasonable but the old taxi industry and the city are trying to give the impression their expensive taxi licences and licensing system is the only way to ensure public safety, but it just ain't true.

City regulations don't ensure extra public safety for the customer, they just help provide for government revenue.

Anyone who's used Uber can anecdotally testify that using Uber is a far more comfortable experience.

[eyeball]

I thought the experience was great myself.

I can't wait till the day I can google up a driverless car...with an on-board bar!

[H10]

Because that would limit the number cars they can have on the road.

The idea that a license to give people rides for money should be treated like a commodity it the thing that needs changing.

I understand it could in theory limit the number of cars on the road, but there are a lot of taxis. Uber certainly could buy them up.

The problem is our entire society has licensings on any profession or job, whether it is doctor, lawyer, engineer, plumber, tradesman, bus driver, truck driver etc.

There was a time when no licenses were required, but the public complained heavily about it so that is why licensing was invented. It wasn't made out of the blue. It also makes a further question, where do we draw the line?

[H10]

You understand that having to buy plates is compelling evidence that there's no free market, right?

Why is that any different from, say, selling food you've cooked?

The taxi system is effed, but that doesn't mean unlicensed, unregulated cabs are a good idea.

No, it isn't we have free market in canada with regulations and licensing. It would be like saying there is no free market in automobiles because you need a license to drive one. Such a view is incorrect.

[H10]

City regulations don't ensure extra public safety for the customer, they just help provide for government revenue.

Anyone who's used Uber can anecdotally testify that using Uber is a far more comfortable experience.

They do, you get a driver trained in defensive driving with no criminal record who is subjected to a host of laws and by laws and a commission and regulatory body with over 10,000 regulations. Taxi drivers are some of the most regulate people in the city of Toronto.

Do you understand how quickly a car being used to drive around all day breaks down and how much repairs it needs. Uber drivers do not have to have winter tires. They do not have to have cpr or a defibrilator in their vehicle, they do not have first aid kits, nor training in first aid, nor a real criminal background check(there is no person checking in real life). Uber drivers do not have training in de-escalation with the public. Uber has no mandated number of accessible vehicles; Anyone who doesn't think about public saftey need not look farther than California driver who pepper sprayed a passenger.

[H10]

Good article about how horrible the Taxi industry is.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/adventure/red-line/how-uber-is-ending-the-dirty-dealings-behind-torontos-cab-business/article25515301/

Driving a cab in Toronto sounds like dealing with the mob. You have to pay $80, or so, a day just for the privilege to be a cabbie.

If I was a cabby I'd stop paying to some rich, lucky plate owner this usary just to do business.

The city has bungled this up, they know they can't ban Uber because the only way to successfully charge a driver is to pose as a customer and then hand out tickets. And I'm sure there's better use to these Sunshine list cops than that, they have construction sites to stand around at and Speed traps to man.

The police chief was saying yesterday that it's impossible to prove someone is using Uber without access to that person's e-mail to prove the transaction was made. Not going to happen. Uber is here to stay.

It depends, there are the renters but there are also owner operators and then there are people like former mayor Mel Lastman who own 30 plates and drive none of them.

Uber is not so much hurting the big guys like mel lastman, he is really killing the owner operators. The owner operators have to comply with all the laws, regularly pay out fees to the city and taxes which add up to 10k a year, use mechanics to pass 4-yearly inspections which include winter tires of certain brands not used. The city has always made the cost high, but traditionally money could be made.

You cannot just stop paying because there are by-law enforcement officers who have the power to arrest you for driving a cab without a license. Before Uber, these people were called gypsy cab drivers and usually could not meet the strict licensing requirements. And they would often be fined or arrested.

By law enforcement officers are going after uber, but they are far fewer than the police. The police are waiting for the outcome of the people who have already been charged. And it is tough, because a good lawyer might argue entrapment after conviction. So it is not the easiest crime to go after and win.

As for using Uber, well, the police could simply sub-poena Uber's database or that of a driver they catch, then go back and find all the customers on his email list, then go and see all the drivers they ever used, and catch them in a massive drag net. But again, the police will only devote these type of resources if they are certain they can get convictions. What is the point of spend $10million to have the guy get off in court with little chance of conviction.

Also what do all you Uber people think is going to happen in the long run? Uber uses surge pricing. What happens when the Taxi renters become Uber drivers, the small owner operator plate holders get financially ruined, the large ones like beck just imitate uber and there are no taxi drivers left? Do you really think that Uber price will not rise significantly, when you eliminate all the competition and its an on demand pricing?

Companies like Uber are smart, they do a practice call dumping. They will sell goods at a discount to destroy local competition, and when there is no more competitor, they put in real premium pricing because there is no alternative and someone isn't going to just launch 1000 cabs overnight. Uber is not good for civilians in the long run

[Boges]

Surge pricing is a supply and demand tool. The 407 does it too. We use a similar pricing model for buying electricity. I don't see a problem with it.

I don't believe a cab driver has any special skills than an insured driver. The routes are all done by GPS anyway.

[overthere]

70 Uber drivers charged in Edmonton, for licensing issues.

[Big Guy]

Ironic that in Toronto during the Taxi drivers "protest" the ony way you could get a cab was to phone Uber.

I wonder how many new Uber customers were created by this "protest"?

[H10]

Surge pricing is a supply and demand tool. The 407 does it too. We use a similar pricing model for buying electricity. I don't see a problem with it.

I don't believe a cab driver has any special skills than an insured driver. The routes are all done by GPS anyway.

Yes, and when the supply of taxis goes down because it has become unprofitable for all operators, what do you think happens to the supply? What do you think happens to the price? It would be like saying we need to shut off all nuclear power and coal power and only allow wind power. Do you not understand wind power, who uses surge pricing is going to get a whole lot more expensive? Only a short sighted buffoon would be incapable of seeing that price will drastically increase, as it is currently doing with hydro.

You don't believe that, but then again, no person in professional or regulated society has a special skill that cannot be learned. You can teach a child in India to do surgery. You can teach most skills, they aren't special, none of the professions use to be regulated, not even doctors. Its funny because doctors often just plug in a list of symptoms into a computer in coming up with a diagnosis of a patient

[H10]

Ironic that in Toronto during the Taxi drivers "protest" the ony way you could get a cab was to phone Uber.

I wonder how many new Uber customers were created by this "protest"?

I doubt that is the case, there are thousands of independent operators, not all of them were protesting, but many were.

[jacee]

Http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/1.3362193

Taxi drivers, on the other hand, pay thousands for their licences, must buy costly insurance policies, must undergo regular training and are governed by fares set by the city. As a result, they say, they just can't compete.

It's interesting that fares are set by the city. In my city there are city Councillor who own multiple plates and thus benefit personally from the rates they set. With such corruption, it's inevitable that a service like Uber would arise to bypass the stranglehold that municipal politicians have on the industry.

The solution for drivers is obvious: Get your own car and drive for Uber.

It's ridiculous that drivers are protesting Uber. They should be protesting the municipal corruption that makes it impossible for them to earn a decent living ... by walking away and driving for Uber.

[overthere]

Http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/1.3362193

Taxi drivers, on the other hand, pay thousands for their licences, must buy costly insurance policies, must undergo regular training and are governed by fares set by the city. As a result, they say, they just can't compete.

It's interesting that fares are set by the city. In my city there are city Councillor who own multiple plates and thus benefit personally from the rates they set. With such corruption, it's inevitable that a service like Uber would arise to bypass the stranglehold that municipal politicians have on the industry.

The solution for drivers is obvious: Get your own car and drive for Uber.

It's ridiculous that drivers are protesting Uber. They should be protesting the municipal corruption that makes it impossible for them to earn a decent living ... by walking away and driving for Uber.

The only way Uber drivers compete here now is by not having valid insurance. I'm not sure why you would endorse that.

Would you endorse for example an airline that employed amateur pilots and mechanics. or ran without the same safety regulations as other airlines?

[Bob Macadoo]

The only way Uber drivers compete here now is by not having valid insurance. I'm not sure why you would endorse that.

Would you endorse for example an airline that employed amateur pilots and mechanics. or ran without the same safety regulations as other airlines?

False equivalency. Uber drivers are like Cesna island hoppers. Ever hop around Hawaii? Flights are $50-100. Ever wonder why? Its evaluation of risk ratio. We regulate to the level of risk we are comfortable in taking.