You know you're an asshole when...

[Black Dog]

Not to mention the people like you encouraging "lynch mobs" against those people organizing boycotts, trying to drum up a mob to supress their ability to express themselves.

[Shady]

Boycotts are generally stupid. Sure, go ahead, and when demand for their products drop, the first people to lose their jobs won't be the CEO. Charge him with animal abuse and move on. This boycott idea is counterproductive.

[dre]

Boycotts are generally stupid. Sure, go ahead, and when demand for their products drop, the first people to lose their jobs won't be the CEO. Charge him with animal abuse and move on. This boycott idea is counterproductive.

No they arent stupid, but your statement most certainly is.

Boycotts are the only non-regulation mechanism in a market that can for companies to act responsibly, and they have caused all kinds of positive changes in the way both businesses and countries operate. They have been instrumental in ending slavery (eg. the english sugar boycott), forcing humane treatment of workers, ending aparthied, making companies more environmentally responsible and all kinds of other things.

Whats stupid, is that people who would normally be blabbing on about the free market, are condemning the concept of consumers organizing to voluntarily stop purchasing products. At least though its only the SECOND stupidest meme in this thread though. Calling these consumers a lynch mob still takes top prize.

[BC_chick]

Don't mind if I do (it's real outrage BTW). That is if I can be heard over the grating, shrill sound of people making useless mouth noises about minor hypocrisies, the likes of which every human carries, while fancying themselves great speakers of important truths.

Sure, everyone is somewhat hypocritical on some issues but being outraged about someone kicking a puppy and then sitting down to BBQ the meat of an animal that was confined and abused all of its life, well, that's Ted Haggard type of hypocrisy.

Take your preconceived (and western) notion of animal hierarchy out of the equation and you could hardly deny that kicking a puppy pales in comparison to factory farming.

[dre]

Sure, everyone is somewhat hypocritical on some issues but being outraged about someone kicking a puppy and then sitting down to BBQ the meat of an animal that was confined and abused all of its life, well, that's Ted Haggard type of hypocrisy.

Take your preconceived (and western) notion of animal hierarchy out of the equation and you could hardly deny that kicking a puppy pales in comparison to factory farming.

Youre right that a lot of awful things happen to animals in our food supply chain. But I DO think theres a difference between killing animals for food, and abusing them simply for fun or sport or sadism.

And while I wasnt "outraged" by the video either, I still think that the CEO is in many ways the public face of your company, and Id probably rather have one that isnt creating a PR nightmare for me by beating up animals on youtube for no good reason at all.

I look at the puny little fine, and the community hours as an attempt to save this guys career and still mitigate damage to the companies brand.

[bush_cheney2004]

Sure, everyone is somewhat hypocritical on some issues but being outraged about someone kicking a puppy and then sitting down to BBQ the meat of an animal that was confined and abused all of its life, well, that's Ted Haggard type of hypocrisy.

Agreed...some of these same outraged folk have no problem using products that are safety tested on "puppies" in lab confinement, training dogs with electric shock collars, or confining their own dogs in small kennels all day while they are at work. It's a dog's life....

[Bonam]

Youre right that a lot of awful things happen to animals in our food supply chain. But I DO think theres a difference between killing animals for food, and abusing them simply for fun

Why? Animal meat is consumed purely for pleasure. It is not necessary for human survival, and is in fact far more resource intensive than alternatives.

[Mighty AC]

Youre right that a lot of awful things happen to animals in our food supply chain. But I DO think theres a difference between killing animals for food, and abusing them simply for fun or sport or sadism.

Aren't we all a little like the puppy kicker if we are aware of and accept the torture of food animals though?

[Shady]

No they arent stupid, but your statement most certainly is.

Boycotts are the only non-regulation mechanism in a market that can for companies to act responsibly, and they have caused all kinds of positive changes in the way both businesses and countries operate. They have been instrumental in ending slavery (eg. the english sugar boycott), forcing humane treatment of workers, ending aparthied, making companies more environmentally responsible and all kinds of other things.

Whats stupid, is that people who would normally be blabbing on about the free market, are condemning the concept of consumers organizing to voluntarily stop purchasing products. At least though its only the SECOND stupidest meme in this thread though. Calling these consumers a lynch mob still takes top prize.

Yep, they can cause all kinds of positive changes. They can also cause negative changes as well. Some of you need to start thinking with your brains instead of just your hearts, and acknowledge all possible outcomes of a boycott. Which in this case, would lead to people getting less hours, layed off, or even let go, as a result of lack of demand, before anything happens to said CEO. It's called the real world. And not everything is a happy result in sunshine boycott happyland. I'm not condemning the concept of boycotts. I'm condemning people who don't grasp the entirety of results of a particular action. And I've never called them a lynch mob, so that's irrelvant.

[dre]

Why? Animal meat is consumed purely for pleasure. It is not necessary for human survival, and is in fact far more resource intensive than alternatives.

Meat has been a staple of the human food chain for thousands of years. If you dont see a difference between killing for food, and killing out of sadism, that makes you a member of a very small and extreme group on the lunatic fringe.

And whether or not its necessary for survival the reality is that humans are omnivores and our bodies and digestive systems are designed to eat meat. The human digestive system is actually too short to properly process cellusose fibre properly, and its designed to make use of the healthy fats found in animal foods. We need things like b12, creatine, carnisine, DHA, and EPA that are either not found in vegitables at all, or are found in much less abundance.

Edited August 29, 2014 by dre

[dre]

Yep, they can cause all kinds of positive changes. They can also cause negative changes as well. Some of you need to start thinking with your brains instead of just your hearts, and acknowledge all possible outcomes of a boycott. Which in this case, would lead to people getting less hours, layed off, or even let go, as a result of lack of demand, before anything happens to said CEO. It's called the real world. And not everything is a happy result in sunshine boycott happyland. I'm not condemning the concept of boycotts. I'm condemning people who don't grasp the entirety of results of a particular action. And I've never called them a lynch mob, so that's irrelvant.

Gosh thats cool story bro. But nobody got laid off... The CEO got fined and has to do community hours. As for thinking with brains vs hearts... I speak on behalf of most of the membership here when I say I wish you would just try one or the other.

I'm not condemning the concept of boycotts. I'm condemning people who don't grasp the entirety of results of a particular action

ROFLMAO.... You said...

Boycotts are generally stupid.

Doesnt exactly sound like a ringing endorsement of the concept.

Edited August 29, 2014 by dre

[Remiel]

I jumped ahead a few pages to comment, so I apologize if someone already made this point: historically lynch mobs and vigilantes have a really awful track record of getting things wrong. In an alternate universe where only people who actually committed death-sentence severity crimes were lynched, or hard time worthy crimes were beaten up a la comics, lynching and vigilantism would have a miraculously improved reputation compared to our universe. Even then I am sure it might be intellectually distasteful, but not viscerally so like here. In this particularly case, I find the eye witness testimony of Mr. Elevator Camera to be beyond reproach. A puppy was kicked. Case closed.

[Shady]

Gosh thats cool story bro. But nobody got laid off... The CEO got fined and has to do community hours. As for thinking with brains vs hearts... I speak on behalf of most of the membership here when I say I wish you would just try one or the other.

ROFLMAO.... You said...

Doesnt exactly sound like a ringing endorsement of the concept.

Nobody got laid off because there was no real boycott. The fine and community hours was a legal punishment. And like I said, generally. I'll repeat, GENERALLY, I think boycotts are stupid. Like this one.

[BC_chick]

Meat has been a staple of the human food chain for thousands of years. If you dont see a difference between killing for food, and killing out of sadism, that makes you a member of a very small and extreme group on the lunatic fringe.

And whether or not its necessary for survival the reality is that humans are omnivores and our bodies and digestive systems are designed to eat meat. The human digestive system is actually too short to properly process cellusose fibre properly, and its designed to make use of the healthy fats found in animal foods. We need things like b12, creatine, carnisine, DHA, and EPA that are either not found in vegitables at all, or are found in much less abundance.

There are many arguments on the flip-side about how bodies are similar to herbivores but let's save that for another thread. The fact is, we have many other sources of food available so humans don't eat meat for survival as do other meat-eating animals.

And yes, of course, tradition is involved, but slavery is a human tradition too. Tradition doesn't make something ethical, nor does it make it logical.

There is absolutely no logical explanation as to why it's okay to eat a pig but not kick a dog other than it's what you've grown up to believe.

[dre]

The fine and community hours was a legal punishment.

Did you even read the story? It wasnt a legal punishment at all, it was a PR move by a board of directors worried about damage to their brand. Heres the public statement.

We pride ourselves as individuals and as a company on how we treat others—both humans and animals. The company finds Mr. Hague’s personal behavior unacceptable and outside the bounds of our high standards and expectations of all of our staff. We do not condone nor can we overlook the mistreatment of animals and Mr. Hague’s personal misconduct.

Thus, upon internal review of the incident, and recognizing that Mr. Hague is truly ashamed of his actions and has expressed sincere remorse and shame for erratic behavior that is uncharacteristic of him we have decided to take the following immediate actions:

Mr. Hague will be given a written censure by the Board whereby he will be placed on indefinite probation stating that any further acts of misconduct would result in immediate termination.

As a condition of his continued employment with Centerplate, Mr. Hague will personally donate $100,000.00 USD which will be donated towards the establishment of the Sade Foundation in honor of the dog he mistreated in the elevator to help support the protection and safety of animals in the city of Vancouver where the incident occurred.

Further, we are requiring Mr. Hague to serve 1000 hours of community service in support of an organization that serves to protect the welfare and safety of animals

Won yourself yet another facepalm award eh?

[WestCoastRunner]

Did you even read the story? It wasnt a legal punishment at all, it was a PR move by a board of directors worried about damage to their brand. Heres the public statement.

Won yourself yet another facepalm award eh?

I'm pretty sure he doesn't read the articles that he links to, or any other articles that posters link to. Headlines are the way to go!

[Hal 9000]

There are many arguments on the flip-side about how bodies are similar to herbivores but let's save that for another thread. The fact is, we have many other sources of food available so humans don't eat meat for survival as do other meat-eating animals.

And yes, of course, tradition is involved, but slavery is a human tradition too. Tradition doesn't make something ethical, nor does it make it logical.

There is absolutely no logical explanation as to why it's okay to eat a pig but not kick a dog other than it's what you've grown up to believe.

So, if i eat a pig, can I or can't I ethically kick a dog?

[Guest]

The arguments all make sense, but having just eaten a piece of salami, I still think the guy's a complete pillock and I'm really glad he's being punished for it.

And, I hope they charge him.

Go figure.

[dre]

There is absolutely no logical explanation as to why it's okay to eat a pig but not kick a dog other than it's what you've grown up to believe.

Yes there is. Eating a pig can keep you alive, and provide nutrients and energy. Kicking a dog is either done purely out of anger or malice, and provides no tangible benefit to the "kicker" at all. The meat from animals I hunt (mostly elk, deer, and salmon) provide most of the nutritional value my family needs each each year. Without it I would have to spend thousands of dollars on vegitables and supplements that I dont have to spend now.

Edited August 30, 2014 by dre

[Hal 9000]

The arguments all make sense, but having just eaten a piece of salami, I still think the guy's a complete pillock and I'm really glad he's being punished for it.

And, I hope they charge him.

Go figure.

Apparently, you forfeit your right to be against this douchebag because of eating that salami.

I kicked a piece of salami the other day, so I'm just staying out of the whole mess.

[Hal 9000]

At least the guy is shelling out 100K, that dog from the Port Hardy reserve went through much worse and nobody will say a thing about the owners.

[BC_chick]

Yes there is. Eating a pig can keep you alive, and provide nutrients and energy. Kicking a dog is either done purely out of anger or malice, and provides no tangible benefit to the "kicker" at all. The meat from animals I hunt (mostly elk, deer, and salmon) provide most of the nutritional value my family needs each each year. Without it I would have to spend thousands of dollars on vegitables and supplements that I dont have to spend now.

Let me begin by mentioning that there is a massive difference in hunting for your personal use and buying factory farm meat. First, the animals you hunt actually had a life, they weren't confined, tortured and abused from birth. Two, you are not paying someone else to do your dirty work for you. You kill the animal and I assume you gut it, clean it and bring it home to cook yourself. It's quite different from someone who turns grey at the idea of a slaughterhouse and willfully puts it out of his/her mind every day in order to enjoy their burger.

Having said that, you do not NEED to hunt, you just choose "not to spend thousands of dollars" in other food sources. So ultimately your rationale is pleasure (taste given your available options) and frugality.

And this man kicked a puppy out of anger so you each have your personal reasons for abusing animals. Maybe you don't see any 'benefit' in his actions vs yours but when all is said and done, his puppy is still breathing, your dinner isn't.

Given the two outcomes, I fail to see how your personal pleasure or frugality makes your act any 'better' than his anger. Personally, I'd much rather be the kicked puppy than your dinner.

The arguments all make sense, but having just eaten a piece of salami, I still think the guy's a complete pillock and I'm really glad he's being punished for it.

And, I hope they charge him.

Go figure.

At least you're honest that it doesn't have to make sense, it's just how you feel.

I'm arguing that you feel that way because in western cultures dogs and cats are domesticated and placed on a hierarchy in the animal kingdom.

You'd be quite ambivalent about puppy kicking if you lived in many other parts of the world.

Edited August 30, 2014 by BC_chick

[Guest]

You'd be quite ambivalent about puppy kicking if you lived in many other parts of the world.

If I had been brought up in some other part of the world I might be ambivalent about lots of things, many of them much worse than puppy kicking.

The guy who was captured on the video is being punished, and I'm happy about that. As he was kicking the dog, someone else was kicking a dog, somewhere else, and they are not going to be punished. That doesn't make any difference to my satisfaction about the comeuppance for the guy in the OP.

You can't win 'em all.

[BC_chick]

If I had been brought up in some other part of the world I might be ambivalent about lots of things, many of them much worse than puppy kicking.

The guy who was captured on the video is being punished, and I'm happy about that. As he was kicking the dog, someone else was kicking a dog, somewhere else, and they are not going to be punished. That doesn't make any difference to my satisfaction about the comeuppance for the guy in the OP.

You can't win 'em all.

You're not going to catch me defending the guy, what he did is reprehensible. I merely pointing out that what he did is actually quite mild compared to other abuses that are committed against animals.

It's legal to kill pigs and illegal to kick dogs and other than a sarcastic responses, there isn't much of a rationale for it.

Dre is the only one trying to defend his position, everyone else is deflecting.

[cybercoma]

Forget it, Bonam has drunk the PETA cool aid and is beyond understanding. This is why I don't bother answering him on this subject any more, he just doesn't get it, nor apparently does he want to. I could refute everything he says but, honestly, I just can't be bothered. He apparently thinks that if bad things happen then all bets are off and bad things happening should be the order of the day for all.

So let me get this straight, since journalists are being beheaded, I can basically do anything else I want as long as it's not as bad? Am I understanding this correctly?