Why Islam is dangerous

[cybercoma]

The reason it's a threat is that Muslim have murdered those who dare criticize Islam. Or would you like to claim they have not?

Oh is that what it takes? Men have murdered women who criticize them. Does that mean we should all be scrambling in fear about men? Maybe we should stop letting them into our country.

Your fear is completely irrational, which is ironic coming from someone who tries to claim the high ground on rationality through his atheism. A miniscule number of murders in the West are related to religious zealotry, let alone Muslims killing apostates. The vast majority of mass shootings in the United States are done by unhinged white Christians.

There is absolutely no concerted effort by Muslims here in the West to come after you in any way whatsoever. If there was, over a million of them in Canada mobilizing against you would be a very short war.

[DogOnPorch]

What is a Shahid, cybercoma? Or would you prefer to pretend such a thing does not exist?

[dialamah]

Dialamah, I think this law in the UK is a good start. It beats sitting back and doing nothing about it. Muslims need to know clearly and definitely that this treatment of women is wrong and will not be tolerated in our country. How do they learn this when we continue to do nothing?

I think it's always been recognized that coercive and controlling behavior is part of domestic abuse. Enshrining it into law may work well for everyone, not just Muslim women.

Islam is not going to have any kind of reformation. And even if it did, westerners are not going to be able to initiate that reform. Unfortunately Muslim women are going to have to step up and Yes, there will be blood shed. I don't think we empower women by just sitting back and saying, "Oh, it's your religion/culture? Well okay then, keep doing what you're doing."

I agree that reformation of Middle Eastern culture won't come from outside. However, there is active effort from within those countries, and within those communities in the West to make changes, so saying it 'will never reform' is probably wrong. Just because they are behind us on this doesn't mean they're incapable.

If I was a Muslim woman who wanted out, what empowerment to do so would I feel from a country that basically has 2 sets of laws? One for Western women that makes coercive control illegal and one for Muslims where it is allowed?

Presumably the laws apply to everyone who lives in that country, so there were not two sets of laws. Creating another law to address a similar-but-different problem will at least give people a way of addressing it. But the problems of getting the victims to help themselves still remains, in my opinion. That is not being addressed. There are already laws against spousal abuse and killing one's spouses, but non-Muslims still do those sorts of things. The problem isn't in the laws, or in the general societal disapproval of such things, but in helping the victim realize she (or he in some cases) can and should leave.

I don't understand your thinking that allowing this behaviour in Canada just because it's their religion/culture is going to help these women at all.

Where did I say I was ok with *allowing* this behavior "just because it's their religion/culture"? Nowhere at all. What I said was this problem exists, and part of the problem is that it's hard to get victims to make the move to escape from their abusers - it's hard for non-Muslims, and it's even harder for Muslims *because* of their culture, community and even the fact that they are immigrants. I have also said that laws such as 'not allowed in public spaces in a burka' makes it even more difficult for these women to escape, should they wish to.

Passing laws, however well-intention, doesn't solve the problem of abuse or of victims who feel they cannot leave because their family will disapprove, their friends will know 'how stupid they were', the abuser has threatened to kill them, their children, their mother/father/sister/brother. This is true for non-Muslims, and even more so for Muslims who are under the control of their family.

What this law does is give the authorities some legal means of penalizing the abuser, and I certainly support that over something that penalizes the abused person.

[drummindiver]

I think this topic is death anymore because there is no effort to understand each other. Everyone is stuck in their own claims.

Here in Canada we bend over backwards accomodating claims from you and other Muslims. Muslims, on the other hand, have it their way at home and at our home. You have the best of both worlds. Nice for you. Edited September 10, 2016 by drummindiver

[Big Guy]

People continue to search for the meaning of their lives and some find it in organized religion, some find it extremist aspects of religions and others find it in charismatic individuals.

I just finished watching CNN's airing of the 201 documentary "Holy Hell" about a movement, or cult or a religion or whatever which drew the unquestioned allegiance and following of white, educated, financially secure young Americans in California and Hawaii. There are some on this board who have convinced themselves that current problems are the cause of a particular religion. I suggest that they view this 2 hr documentary and explain why these intelligent people were indoctrinated into what the average person would reject.

I cannot find a place on the web where this documentary can be viewed and I would appreciate anyone locating one and posting the address here.

[Goddess]

Thank you for clarifying your views for me, Dialamah. It seemed like you are a "problem for every solution" type of person. And I don't agree with doing nothing simply because we don't know what to do. There will be women who fall through the cracks and that is very unfortunate. But the thing I like about this law is that police don't need to have the woman's consent or complaint to file charges. If it helps a majority and let's men know this is illegal then, great.

Although it doesn't mention Muslims specifically, I suspect this law was put in the books to deal with the problem. Because they aren't just "getting it" by observing western culture, as has been suggested many times here.

[drummindiver]

People continue to search for the meaning of their lives and some find it in organized religion, some find it extremist aspects of religions and others find it in charismatic individuals.

I just finished watching CNN's airing of the 201 documentary "Holy Hell" about a movement, or cult or a religion or whatever which drew the unquestioned allegiance and following of white, educated, financially secure young Americans in California and Hawaii. There are some on this board who have convinced themselves that current problems are the cause of a particular religion. I suggest that they view this 2 hr documentary and explain why these intelligent people were indoctrinated into what the average person would reject.

I cannot find a place on the web where this documentary can be viewed and I would appreciate anyone locating one and posting the address here.

You don't have to "convince yourself" of anything when the proof is constantly in front of you. This isn't a scientific theory we're talking about here.

Edited September 10, 2016 by drummindiver

[DogOnPorch]

This thread is about: "Why is Islam dangerous?" Not something else.

Is the conclusion that in spite of the evidence to the contrary, Islam in fact is a peaceful religion and it is merely its detractors that are the problem? That seems to be where the defense has taken their case.

[DogOnPorch]

Oh...and what's a Shahid? Anybody care to admit to its existence or is denial the order of the day?

[dialamah]

I like this article, and this commentator.

Tension in France is already high, and Muslims bear considerable responsibility in helping diffuse the flames of hate. Muslims should stand for freedom and respect. There should be zero tolerance for any attack on non-Muslim women. If the Burkini has to be accepted in the Western world, then shorts, and even nudity, have to be mutually accepted by Muslims living in non-Muslim societies.

[Goddess]

Big Guy, I haven't had a chance to see that documentary but it's on my to-do list.

My experience being born and raised and living 40 years of my life in a cult, getting out with only my children and serving on a recovery forum for others who wanted to get out, is that no one leaves until they are ready. Sometimes it takes something to happen to them personally to find the strength to leave. For me, when I was expected to shun my children, it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[dialamah]

Big Guy, I haven't had a chance to see that documentary but it's on my to-do list.

My experience being born and raised and living 40 years of my life in a cult, getting out with only my children and serving on a recovery forum for others who wanted to get out, is that no one leaves until they are ready. Sometimes it takes something to happen to them personally to find the strength to leave. For me, when I was expected to shun my children, it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

And as far as I'm concerned, it would be great if those people who expected you to shun your children could be held accountable. Perhaps a similar 'coerce and control' law could be implemented in Canada, though I admit I do wonder about unintended consequences. Could they be used against parents who are merely trying to safeguard their kids? Against cops who are lawfully going about their business of obtaining information from witnesses and suspects? Against spouses who perhaps say something in the heat of the moment that they do not really mean?

[GostHacked]

Oh...and what's a Shahid? Anybody care to admit to its existence or is denial the order of the day?

How about you just tell us what it is and stop being obnoxious about it.

[DogOnPorch]

How about you just tell us what it is and stop being obnoxious about it.

Already did and you and others ignored it. Look back a page or two. If you wish to defend Islam, perhaps set me straight on the real purpose behind the concept. You know...the peaceful one.

[dialamah]

How about you just tell us what it is and stop being obnoxious about it.

I think it's more fun to watch him ask it over and over and over again.

[GostHacked]

Already did and you and others ignored it. Look back a page or two. If you wish to defend Islam, perhaps set me straight on the real purpose behind the concept. You know...the peaceful one.

Show me. But I ignore a lot of stuff from you. Most of it is not worth reading.

[Altai]

As is the case with most any topic on this forum. I honestly don't know why I or anyone else posts here still. I guess it's like gambling. You keep playing because you hope you're going to hit it big. Play enough and eventually you do win but at what price? Winning at gambling is like finding that moment where people actually listen and learn from each other here. It's rare but when it does happen it's like winning the lottery. Posting here is like gambling. They payoffs are few and far between but once in awhile it happens.

I also couldnt get an answer for some of my questions because they know when they reply it honestly, they will contradict with themselves.

[Goddess]

And as far as I'm concerned, it would be great if those people who expected you to shun your children could be held accountable. Perhaps a similar 'coerce and control' law could be implemented in Canada, though I admit I do wonder about unintended consequences. Could they be used against parents who are merely trying to safeguard their kids? Against cops who are lawfully going about their business of obtaining information from witnesses and suspects? Against spouses who perhaps say something in the heat of the moment that they do not really mean?

I think it gets murky when religious freedom is involved.

My cult is being investigated in many other countries - the UK and Australia both included it in Royal Commission investigations and the results were not good for the cult. Recommendations have been made regarding revoking their charitable status, etc.

Nothing happening in Canada and the US yet.

[DogOnPorch]

Show me. But I ignore a lot of stuff from you. Most of it is not worth reading.

Then we have nothing to discuss.

I think it's more fun to watch him ask it over and over and over again.

You're free to deny it exists. Denial re: Islam is your duty.

[GostHacked]

Then we have nothing to discuss.

Now you are getting it, you did not bring anything new to the table anyways.

[DogOnPorch]

Now that GH has dropped out of the thread, does anybody wish to defend Islam's concept of Martyrdom?

That is: Shahid.

Well? Let's hear the peaceful explanation. There IS one...right?

[dialamah]

I think it gets murky when religious freedom is involved.

My cult is being investigated in many other countries - the UK and Australia both included it in Royal Commission investigations and the results were not good for the cult. Recommendations have been made regarding revoking their charitable status, etc.

Nothing happening in Canada and the US yet.

Would you give evidence against them if they were investigated in Canada? Do you know if there is any push to do that?

[dialamah]

Shahid is a 2013 Indian Hindi biographical film directed by Hansal Mehta and produced by Anurag Kashyap. It is based on the life of lawyer and human rights activist Shahid Azmi, who was assassinated in 2010 in Mumbai.^[3][4]

^{Shahid - Bail Denied in Honor killing case}

^{Shahid - a TV network of some kind.}

Shahid - Shahid and Shaheed (Arabic: شهيد‎‎ šahīd, plural: شُهَدَاء šuhadāʾ ; female: šahīda) originates from the Quranic Arabic word meaning "witness" and is also used to denote a martyr (From Wikipedia)

Now watch as DoP gloms onto the "martyr" meaning of Shahid to continue his agenda of proving how evil Islam is.

Edited September 10, 2016 by dialamah

[DogOnPorch]

Off topic. ^^^^

As mentioned a few pages back, since the defenders of Islam have no peaceful explanation for Martyrdom, we can conclude that Islam is a dangerous ideology that uses promises of great rewards in the afterlife to get members to commit horrific crimes in the real world.

It only takes one of these fellows...usually a male...to cause huge casualties...as we have seen over and over and over again.

[DogOnPorch]

Now watch as DoP gloms onto the "martyr" meaning of Shahid to continue his agenda of proving how evil Islam is.

Islamic martyrdom operations occur daily.