How Trudeau lost my vote

[Argus]

Unless the conservatives realize the trend in time for the election and preempt Trudeau with their own legalization/decriminalization bill.

The only reason I ever supported marihuana laws was I thought the Americans would go apeshit if we legalized it and it would disrupt border traffic. Given Colorado and Washington, I don't think that would happen now, so I'd be more than willing to give it a try.

Unfortunately, Harper is not a flexible thinker, and never admits he's wrong.

[Remiel]

Those who kill in self defense have no particular moral responsibility.

Horseshit. Do you even know what responsibility is? That kind of rule can only apply when the people being defended against are the only ones being killed.

[Argus]

Amazing happening in our politics. The person leading the polls (son of Trudeau) almost never talks off the cuff to reporters - and it seems that reporters don't try very hard to get him to talk freely. Yes, I realize he's appeared to have made a couple of bone head statements - but surely they were taken out of context?

Why don't we ever get to hear from this guy?

During the election Trudeau senior ran against Joe Clark and his brief minority government, Trudeau stayed as far from the media as possible. He knew people hated him, but was taking advantage of anger over a proposed gas tax, and teething problems with the new minority Tory government. He had no actual platform or program, and unless my memory is playing tricks, refused to even take part in any debates.

He still won the election. Oh, and shortly thereafter, he imposed the gas tax his party had voted out the Tories over.

It is simply not possible to overestimate how stupid the Canadian electorate can be.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Argus

[Argus]

Horseshit. Do you even know what responsibility is? That kind of rule can only apply when the people being defended against are the only ones being killed.

If someone is trying to harm me then they deserve to die. It doesn't get any more basic than that.

[Moonbox]

It is simply not possible to overestimate how stupid the Canadian electorate can be.

Any electorate. All electorates. Probably over 90% of people in Canada don't even read the news, so making intelligent and informed decisions simply can't be expected.

[TimG]

Probably over 90% of people in Canada don't even read the news, so making intelligent and informed decisions simply can't be expected.

And a large percentage of the remainder get their news from sources with a single bias and are just as misinformed (maybe worse because they think they are informed). Edited August 2, 2014 by TimG

[Big Guy]

Except when this is the direction most of the world or at least that part of it that has the wherewithal to do any stopping is also moving in the same direction. There comes a point if many are not already past it, when not taking what you want is not an option. Take the taking of water and other resources for example.

As I've pointed out if not here than other similarly threads, when it's a good enough direction for some of the shiniest beacons in the world to lead, who can fault others for following? Shouldn't there be a point at which we drop the pretenses and recognize the increasingly pagan nature of pursuing national/economic/religious/etc etc, interests?

The method of pursuit is not what matters. Not anymore.

A very thought provoking post. Thank you. " Shouldn't there be a point at which we drop the pretenses and recognize the increasingly pagan nature of pursuing national/economic/religious/etc etc, interests?"

I share your disappointment of what our race has done with all of the gifts available to us and how we have managed to use them in such a selfish manner. It appears our species requires some tragic event that puts all of our lives in danger before we are prepared to work in concert. Perhaps we have to wait for that event.

We do have the ability to change the world if we redirected our energies from killing off each other for really silly reasons and instead focus our collective strength, intelligence and ability to be beneficial to all.

Too many of our species still view tolerance as weakness, charity as supporting the unentitled and co-operation as a weakness.

There appears to be an aggression causing ingrained gene or strand of DNA that we all carry but becomes has mutated to become dominant in some of us. The only hope we have is that through time and evolution, those individuals carrying that gene or DNA will have managed to kill each other before having the opportunity to reproduce.

There is hope.

[Remiel]

If someone is trying to harm me then they deserve to die. It doesn't get any more basic than that.

No, according to you their children also deserve to die because you are saying Israel has no moral responsibility for innocents dying in Gaza. Responsibility is not just a thing, it is an attitude, and the flippant dismissal of even the idea that Israel has any moral responsibility for their actions completely flies in the face of that.

In fact, if we go by the "actions speak louder than words" standard, the IDF agrees with me completely. That is why they take reasonable measures to avoid civilian casualties. You are saying that they are wasting their time, and lives, because they have no moral responsibility for what happens there. Do you also subscribe to the idea of "acceptable genocide" , as was briefly floated today?

[eyeball]

It is simply not possible to overestimate how stupid the Canadian electorate can be.

Any electorate. All electorates. Probably over 90% of people in Canada don't even read the news, so making intelligent and informed decisions simply can't be expected.

And a large percentage of the remainder get their news from sources with a single bias and are just as misinformed (maybe worse because they think they are informed).

You guys are a hoot.

So ronery and sadry arone.

[Moonbox]

You guys are a hoot.

Yeah, we're just a bunch of ornery right-wing corporate imperialists...right?

[eyeball]

Maybe, if you say so.

It's not what I said.

[PIK]

Stephen Harper has been in power too long. He's been corrupted by power exactly the same as Chretien,Mulroney, Trudeau, McKenzie King, Laurier. Any PM who is in power too long will become complacent, develop bad habits and become corrupted by the sycophants, partisans and the patronage system.

In that sense I agree with the Yanks that a chief executive should be limited to a maximum of two terms. Its a bit difficult in the Parliamentary system though so I get that.

In the current case, ideally I would love a fresh new government if for no other reason to clean up the entrenched network of patronage.

However what's the alternative? As elitist and arrogant and secretive and corrupt as Harper has become who is the alternatie? Mulcair? Give me a break. He would ruin this country with his economic policies. Who else. What that Drama teacher? The only reason Trudeau is in politics is because of his name. period. Any one else with his background would be laughed at. He exists politically because of his name, period.

He is a sheltered rich boy with zero life or academic experience to manage a country. He is a person who taught drama for a year. He's a friggin drama teacher.

I strongly support Harper foreign policy. I disagree with some financial policies but for the most part I agree. When I look at the Liberal and NDPeconomic platforms I cringe. In regards to foreign policy or all other policies other than the economy, Mulcair is actually a Red Tory or typical Liberal.. I could stomach the rest, but not his economic policies.

Trudeau? Absolutely embarrassing to think he would appear on world stage.

What corruption? And trudeau was more then a drama teacher, he worked as a bar tender. But he lasted only 2 shifts because it was to hard. His words not mine. Edited August 2, 2014 by PIK

[dre]

If someone is trying to harm me then they deserve to die. It doesn't get any more basic than that.

Right so if people were forcing you off your property, killing thousands of your friends, and stealing the natural resources off your land, you would try to kill them.

Thats a good clarification of your position thanks.

[Argus]

No, according to you their children also deserve to die because you are saying Israel has no moral responsibility for innocents dying in Gaza.

If I rob a bank and you have a heart attack I get charged. If I hadn't robbed the bank, the heart attack wouldn't have happened.

If Hamas didn't insist on attacking Israelis none of those deaths of Palestinians would not have happened.

In fact, if we go by the "actions speak louder than words" standard, the IDF agrees with me completely. That is why they take reasonable measures to avoid civilian casualties. You are saying that they are wasting their time,

Uhm, no. I'm taking it as a given that they take reasonable efforts to minimize civilian casualties, as they always do. Therefore, all the deaths are on Hamas.

[Argus]

Right so if people were forcing you off your property, killing thousands of your friends, and stealing the natural resources off your land, you would try to kill them.

You people keep making these wild assed claims about the Israelis forcing the Palestinians out, regardless of the fact their numbers continue to grow and the fact there are no settlements in Gaza.

[Remiel]

You people keep making these wild assed claims about the Israelis forcing the Palestinians out, regardless of the fact their numbers continue to grow and the fact there are no settlements in Gaza.

Has there been a renewed push for a mysterious "three state solution" while we were not looking?

[On Guard for Thee]

What corruption? And trudeau was more then a drama teacher, he worked as a bar tender. But he lasted only 2 shifts because it was to hard. His words not mine.

What corruption? Do we need to list the endless scandals Harper has on his plate? Actually JT has a lot more experience in government than Harper did when he came to power. Harper worked for daddy. Sure JT was born with the "silver spoon" but that's not his fault.

[Moonbox]

Sure JT was born with the "silver spoon" but that's not his fault.

Nor was it his 'fault' that he became leader of the Liberal party. He was born into it, and if daddy Pierre hadn't preceded him Justin wouldn't be anything more than a drama teacher.

[eyeball]

I seem to recall discussions along similar lines when Bush Jr rose to power. Given the disaster that followed maybe the conservative wariness towards Trudeau Jn is appropriate. OTOH it could just be a delayed reaction.

[bush_cheney2004]

I seem to recall discussions along similar lines when Bush Jr rose to power. Given the disaster that followed maybe the conservative wariness towards Trudeau Jn is appropriate. OTOH it could just be a delayed reaction.

Yeah...they said the same thing about U.S. presidents John Adams and John Quincy Adams. Must be true....

[On Guard for Thee]

Hopefully when JT gets to power he will have recalled enough from "daddy Pierre's" teachings that you shouldn't conceal files from parliament and get yourself found in contempt, or heaven forbid, as in Bush's case, guilty of war crimes.

[John Charlton]

It started with keystone XL pipeline and his stance on fracking and the oil sands.

Then the abortion issue which seemed obviously contrived since it's a moot point. It did not sit well with me when he did not give a choice to his MP's.

The final straw was his official statement on Gaza and the subsequent silence as the death toll mounted. I could see initially why he'd come out bpwith the usual banter but I figured he'd say something, anything, as the body bags piled up.

Now I realize that he's no different than Harper other than his legalization of pot which doesn't particularly resonate with me. I do believe it should be done, but it's not what I would consider a pressing issue for me.

I would've really liked to see him make his distinction on what I believe are Harper's shortcomings - lack of respect for the environment and his good/evil approach to foreign policy.

None of the 3 main contenders seem appealing so unless I find a good fringe group I think I might sit 2015 out.

First time I've ever done that.

Your wise beond your years of which I do not know! Justin just want's freedom of opinion But his pro-choice request for his cabinet is good in that the choice is with the mother not with the state. It may be wise to sit out but how will that produce change?

[John Charlton]

What corruption? And trudeau was more then a drama teacher, he worked as a bar tender. But he lasted only 2 shifts because it was to hard. His words not mine.

Would one of our Embassadors be a better PM ? Your political anger with Gaza, Ukraine, Syria... is under stood. But what have we heard from our foreign affairs minister in the last week? The answer is zip. Since the world is now angry with Isreal. So Justin wants a strong Canada, he will learn about the rest of the world in time. Harper an all before him knew nothing about foreign ploitics apon their arrival to Ottawa.

[John Charlton]

Right so if people were forcing you off your property, killing thousands of your friends, and stealing the natural resources off your land, you would try to kill them.

Thats a good clarification of your position thanks.

The old days of the enemy in a military uniform as your target are long gone. We have to understand the way thing are on the battle field in the (now) way of war. No one is right and thousands will die. History is scarry but also very true. I hate to say this but these and other wars are due to occur. Too many people, and leaders with power, and wars is inevitable. I just pray that we have the lowest loss of life possible.

[John Charlton]

If I rob a bank and you have a heart attack I get charged. If I hadn't robbed the bank, the heart attack wouldn't have happened.

If Hamas didn't insist on attacking Israelis none of those deaths of Palestinians would not have happened.

Uhm, no. I'm taking it as a given that they take reasonable efforts to minimize civilian casualties, as they always do. Therefore, all the deaths are on Hamas.

No one deserves to die and that is so true of children and those that do not carrry a wepons. No one is right or wrong in this war. But all have the right to defend. Would you start a gun fight with others with your family at your side? I know you would say no. Unless you are there and know all the issues, and not just what the press is selling, please don't judge.