Pope says 1 in 50 priests and bishops are paedophiles

[Scotty]

As I read this I was reminded of a documentary I saw years ago. It had to do with young gay men who were very religious Catholics. As they became aware of their feelings for other young men, they felt emotionally tortured, and had no idea what to do. They thought it was evil, that such feelings were unnatural, and didn't want to tell anyone.

Joining the church seemed to be an escape. No one would wonder why they weren't dating girls, not marrying and having children. And through good work and constant prayer they could hope to right the blot on their moral character created by such evil feelings.

It didn't work out that way. Not for all of them anyway. But where were their eyes to turn within the Church? As we know, it often turned to the only males they had access to, and who were unlikely to be reporting them, that is, young males, boys.

I know that the old refrain says that paedophiles are not necessarily gay. Even paedophiles who are heterosexual can molest young boys. I don't really know enough about paedophila to say for certain. I do know, though, from reading a bit on it, that the pope is misusing the term, just as the media misuses the term. A paeophile is someone with a mental illness, and their normal range of attraction is children under 8 years of age. Paedophiles get sexually aroused in boys and girls as young as infancy. The older the children are, the less interest paedophiles have in them.

But almost all the tales of child molestation we read about don't feature five year old. Almost all the cases which the media are reporting feature adolescent boys, the mormal victim age range about 11-14. That seems to be the case with Catholic priests. It also seems to be the case with famous Canadian cases, like at Maple Leaf Gardens, the native schools, the boy scouts and the Catholic brothers. Almost every major case seems to feature adolescent boys.

Paedophiles, for the most part, simply aren't interested in adolescent boys. Gay men are. There has always been a stream of thought that the interest of gay men in younger teens was a kind of instinctive cultural or gentic confusion in that young boys have smooth, hairless bodies, ie, more like women, but were still male. In any case, there isn't much doubt that in gay culture, 'pretty' young men are pretty darn popular. So I think the pope and the headline writers need to reconsider whether they're aiming at the right group at all. I don't think 2% of Catholic clergy are paedophiles. I think most of those child abusers are simply gay men.

http://www.nationalheadlines.co.uk/pope-francis-one-in-50-catholic-priests-bishops-and-cardinals-are-paedophiles/402336/

[jacee]

'In heterosexual culture, 'pretty' young women are pretty darn popular' too.

Gay priests have plenty of other gay priests to play with.

Pedophiles are pedophiles and prefer to prey on children. Some like em younger, some like em older, they're all children.

Pedophilia isn't about sex. It's about power, control, inflicting pain and agony ... on children.

.

Edited July 13, 2014 by jacee

[waldo]

I don't think 2% of Catholic clergy are paedophiles. I think most of those child abusers are simply gay men.

waldo fast facts:

- the phrase "pedophile priest" is a misnomer... varying research findings advise ~ 80% of clergy sex offenders abuse post pubescent teens, not pre pubescent children

- Pope Frank's "2% figure" quoted, or the more traditionally quoted figure of "less than 2%", is on par with the number of pedos found within the greater populace of married men

[kimmy]

As I read this I was reminded of a documentary I saw years ago. It had to do with young gay men who were very religious Catholics. As they became aware of their feelings for other young men, they felt emotionally tortured, and had no idea what to do. They thought it was evil, that such feelings were unnatural, and didn't want to tell anyone.

Joining the church seemed to be an escape. No one would wonder why they weren't dating girls, not marrying and having children. And through good work and constant prayer they could hope to right the blot on their moral character created by such evil feelings.

The reasons you provide would make the priesthood an obvious choice for young Catholic males who start to feel same sex attraction, at least in the past.

I doubt that pedophile priests will be a widespread problem in the future, because young people who feel same-sex attraction now feel that just quitting church is an option, and they now have much more freedom to pursue sexual fulfillment without resorting to predatory behavior.

-k

[Shady]

The reasons you provide would make the priesthood an obvious choice for young Catholic males who start to feel same sex attraction, at least in the past.

I doubt that pedophile priests will be a widespread problem in the future, because young people who feel same-sex attraction now feel that just quitting church is an option, and they now have much more freedom to pursue sexual fulfillment without resorting to predatory behavior.

-k

I agree. I think in the past, many men who had homosexual feelings, went into the church because they felt guilty of their feelings. Today, for the most part, they can be as who they are without feeling the same way. So I don't think they'd seek out the church, or if they did, quitting is a definite option as oppose to the past.

[Moonlight Graham]

Instead of saying "One in 50’ Catholic priests, bishops and cardinals are paedophiles" he should have said "One in 50’ Catholic priests, bishops, cardinals, and popes are paedophiles". I love the convenient omission!

[The_Squid]

Instead of saying "One in 50’ Catholic priests, bishops and cardinals are paedophiles" he should have said "One in 50’ Catholic priests, bishops, cardinals, and popes are paedophiles". I love the convenient omission!

The pope pedophilia rate is much higher.....

[Topaz]

Maybe the the Church should do a better changing some of the ways men are become priests and weed out them out. Let's be clear though, pedophiles are in every occupation in life and some are very careful not to be found out. I read an article, that state back when Bush Sr was prez, many of the congressmen and senators were Gay and were pedophiles and concentrated on the young people who went to DC to work.

[Argus]

'In heterosexual culture, 'pretty' young women are pretty darn popular' too.

Yes, but not as available. People would look suspiciously on a grown man spending much time with an adolescent girl not his daughter. That didn't used to be the case with men and boys, especially when sports are thrown intot he mix. I'm not saying it doesn't happen for it surely does, but that wasn't the case in the Catholic church, and it wasn't the case in any of the other child abuse scandals I can think of in Canada.

Gay priests have plenty of other gay priests to play with.

Maybe, but a lot of gay men like younger partners.

Pedophiles are pedophiles and prefer to prey on children

It's not a matter of prefer. That's the way their brains are wired.

Some like em younger, some like em older, they're all children.

Pedophiles have feelings for young children, not adolescents.

Pedophilia isn't about sex. It's about power, control, inflicting pain and agony ... on children.

No, it's not. It's about desperate sick men (usually) convincing themselves that the small child likes what they're doing. It's a sad, pathetic reality, but it's definitely about sex and about companionship. Paedophilies aren't generally looking to harm the children they abuse.

[Scotty]

'In heterosexual culture, 'pretty' young women are pretty darn popular' too.

Gay priests have plenty of other gay priests to play with.

Pedophiles are pedophiles and prefer to prey on children. Some like em younger, some like em older, they're all children.

Pedophilia isn't about sex. It's about power, control, inflicting pain and agony ... on children.

.

That's not how it works. Yes, pretty young women are popular in heterosexual culture, and it's not called paedophila. That was my point.

[Scotty]

waldo fast facts:

- the phrase "pedophile priest" is a misnomer... varying research findings advise ~ 80% of clergy sex offenders abuse post pubescent teens, not pre pubescent children

- Pope Frank's "2% figure" quoted, or the more traditionally quoted figure of "less than 2%", is on par with the number of pedos found within the greater populace of married men

Do you have a citation for that? I"ve never heard the number of paedohiles listed as nearly that high. Two percent is more a number given for the percentage of gays in the general population.

[Scotty]

The pope pedophilia rate is much higher.....

You have a citation to support that, I'm sure.

[Scotty]

Maybe the the Church should do a better changing some of the ways men are become priests and weed out them out. Let's be clear though, pedophiles are in every occupation in life and some are very careful not to be found out. I read an article, that state back when Bush Sr was prez, many of the congressmen and senators were Gay and were pedophiles and concentrated on the young people who went to DC to work.

I think one of the problems was the church was so desperate for priests that it lowered its standards and overlooked a lot they might not have once upon a time. Maybe it's time for them to do as the English church has done and admit women priests.

And to repeat, if they 'concentrated on the young people who went to DC to work' they weren't pedophiles. Pedophiles are not interested in teenagers.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Scotty

[-TSS-]

If the pope says that you can count on it to be an underestimation.

[Mighty AC]

They indoctrinate ignorance, perpetuate misogyny and worsen disease, death and suffering, but hey only 1 in 50 rape children....so that's not bad.

[jacee]

That's not how it works. Yes, pretty young women are popular in heterosexual culture, and it's not called paedophila. That was my point.

Keyword being "women".

You are correct that pedophile is the word used when the victims are prepubescent.

"Hebephilia is defined as individuals with a primary or exclusive sexual interest in 11-14 year old pubescents."

And whatever you call it, it's abnormal, illegal and victimizes children. Whether men or women, preying on boys or girls ...

They are predators.

No, they are not just gay.

.

.

Edited July 15, 2014 by jacee

[Mighty AC]

No, they are not just gay.

Nice. That's a point worth repeating. Too many seem to think that if a man rapes a boy, he must be gay. However, that's not the case. Pedophiles seem to get off on the power they hold over the child....not the gender.

[Scotty]

Keyword being "women".

Girls if you prefer. I was speaking about teenagers.

You are correct that pedophile is the word used when the victims are prepubescent.

"Hebephilia is defined as individuals with a primary or exclusive sexual interest in 11-14 year old pubescents."

The key difference being that pedophilia is a psychiatric issue and hebophilia is merely a sexual preference.

No, they are not just gay.

Yes, they are just gay.

[Scotty]

Nice. That's a point worth repeating. Too many seem to think that if a man rapes a boy, he must be gay. However, that's not the case. Pedophiles seem to get off on the power they hold over the child....not the gender.

First, pedophiles don't have sex with adolescents. Second, no, they don't 'get off' on power. They are simply psychologically incapable of forming bonds or relating to adult women. And most of them seem able to convince themselves they aren't harming the child.

Second, I'm not speaking about pedophiles. I'm saying all these cases of men having sex with adolescent boys and teenagers is not an issue of pedophilia at all, but merely immoral gay men preying on adolescents.

[-TSS-]

In Europe catholicism is in the doldrums. Good! We don't need any medieval superstition originated in the desert.

Unfortunately, catholicism is very vibrant in Africa. Christianity and especially the catholic branch of it is the second fastes growing religion in Africa only after islam. Nowadays in France for example many, if not most, parish priests of the catholic church are from the former colonies because understandably the indigenous people are no longer interested in the career of a priest.

It's a bit symbolic really; the Europeans brought the religion to their colonies and now the colonies are kind of bringing it back to the former main-country.

[jacee]

First, pedophiles don't have sex with adolescents. Second, no, they don't 'get off' on power.

Cite??

They are simply psychologically incapable of forming bonds or relating to adult women. And most of them seem able to convince themselves they aren't harming the child.

Who cares what lying creep predators think or say?

Second, I'm not speaking about pedophiles. I'm saying all these cases of men having sex with adolescent boys and teenagers is not an issue of pedophilia at all, but merely immoral gay men preying on adolescents.

"immoral" ... ya, criminals ... same as men who have sex with adolescent girls ... criminals ... or women with boys or girls ... criminals.

"preying on" ... absolutely ... because they are predators ... exploiting, abusing, controlling, damaging.

No they are not " just gay" or 'just hetero' ... they are predatory deviants ...sickos ... criminals.

AGE OF CONSENT

Edited July 17, 2014 by jacee

[overthere]

The Catholic Church is rotten to the core.

Any other organization that admitted it was thick with the very worst of the worst of criminals would act to publicly clean out all of them. Any other organization with this level of systemic criminal activity would have special prosecutors raiding every office and shutting down the enterprise, including the Vatican.

But when your main products - accompanied by superb marketing and over two millennia of successful indoctrination- are fear and guilt disguised as hope and joy, the Popes options are limited to damage control and minimum action.

[iolo]

What we need to take into account is power. A tory chief whip said here recently that when MPs had problems with, say, money or little boys, the whips would help and the MP would thereafter always toe the Party Line. The Papacy introduced celibacy with just that in mind, at the time it made its bid for total control - and when faced with, say, the British Church, which stayed Christian, simply denied its existence and converted a few German pagan overlords. There are good RCs, Overthere, but their Church seems to me to be rotten to the root rather!

[cybercoma]

I think some of you have absolutely no idea what pedophilia is. Children are androgynous. A pedophile is turned on by pre-pubescent children because they do not have adult sexual features. An ephebophile is someone that is turned on by teens who have gone through puberty. They're children, but have adult sexual features. This makes an ephebophile different from a pedophile in a very specific way. Priests who took advantage of young children are pedophiles. It has nothing to do with sexuality that is attracted to adult features. Homosexuals are not pedophiles. Heterosexuals are not pedophiles. Ephebophiles have a problem too, but they're still not pedophiles. Those people are attracted to post-puberty bodies, not the androgyny of children. I think if people are going to talk about these things, they should be clear on the definitions and what they mean lest we get into the ridiculous discussion about homosexuals being pedophiles again. One of the main reason you see larger age gaps in the gay community is that there are far fewer partners for gay people to choose from. Essentially, you take what you can get sometimes. I'm not condoning people having sex with children that are underage. I'm just explaining why you'll sometimes see an 18 year old boy with a 40 year old man.

[Scotty]

I think some of you have absolutely no idea what pedophilia is. Children are androgynous. A pedophile is turned on by pre-pubescent children because they do not have adult sexual features. An ephebophile is someone that is turned on by teens who have gone through puberty. They're children, but have adult sexual features. This makes an ephebophile different from a pedophile in a very specific way.

A liking for teenagers is nothing new, and goes back through the entire history of mankind. Men imprint on what we first find sexually desirable, and obviously that's young teenager girls. Up until the last century or two that was also when we married them. So while it's culturally forbidden it's not psychologically diagnosable. I.e., it's not a mental illness like paedophilia.

Priests who took advantage of young children are pedophiles.

If they were YOUNG children. My understanding is by far the great majority were adolescent boys.

One of the main reason you see larger age gaps in the gay community is that there are far fewer partners for gay people to choose from. Essentially, you take what you can get sometimes. I'm not condoning people having sex with children that are underage. I'm just explaining why you'll sometimes see an 18 year old boy with a 40 year old man.

I disagree. There are plenty of gay men. The gay community prefers younger men, that's all. The whole fixation on body shaving originated in the gay community. Why? Because shaving their body hair made them look more appealing to possible partners.