Boges Posted July 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 You guys do know Netlix carries CanCon, meaning they do pay to support that CanCon. The big quam Netflix has is their ability to draw from the fund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) You guys do know Netlix carries CanCon, meaning they do pay to support that CanCon. The big quam Netflix has is their ability to draw from the fund. Right but that content wouldn't exist to license without the seed money from the fund. Put money in get money out.....almost like EI. Edited July 7, 2014 by Bob Macadoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 You guys do know Netlix carries CanCon, meaning they do pay to support that CanCon. The big quam Netflix has is their ability to draw from the fund. is that at the 35% of all content level? Of course it isn't... but that's what all BDUs are required to do by the CRTC... along with bundling in Canadian channels that very few subscribers appear interested in (like APTN, CPAC, VisionTV, etc..). And your 'carrying' isn't the same as directly commiting monies into a development fund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 is that at the 35% of all content level? Of course it isn't... but that's what all BDUs are required to do by the CRTC... along with bundling in Canadian channels that very few subscribers appear interested in (like APTN, CPAC, VisionTV, etc..). And your 'carrying' isn't the same as directly commiting monies into a development fund. Nobody should be required to do either. The easiest solution is to eliminate CanCon requirements, the development fund, and taxpayer subsidies to all broadcasters. Consumers should never be forced to take a specific percentage of anything. Nor should providers have to pay into a fund so others can do it. Make Canadian content worth watching, and Canadians will watch it. Don't, and they won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Nobody should be required to do either. ... Make Canadian content worth watching, and Canadians will watch it. Don't, and they won't.One would hope free market economics would work in this situation however the market share is dominated by an oligarchy (or cartel). Minor players will die.....along with their ethno-content. Look at the CBC they've even been converted, paying license fees for syndicated shows abroad.I notice the government likes bending the market when it comes to radio spectrum. Be honest...say you don't care about Cdn content/views, its dishonest to say "trust the market". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 What CBC should be doing, is setting up their own Kickstarter/Indigogo type of site where all the people who claim to be supporters of the CBC can prove it by funding the programming on a project by project basis. Very intriguing idea. I like it because it gets money to the artists, and the best will thrive/survive while the worst will die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) I think the idea of a "media fund" is an outdated idea. But I guess CanCon can't be made without it now. The owners of the private media companies can't be hurting for money when you see how much they're willing to invest on sports. So it's all about giving people what they want. The CBC can't compete with the likes of City (Rogers) and CTV (Bell) nor should they be able to. They have a narrow mandate. The truth is, scripted drama is very expensive to produce. Even in the USA, the most successful scripted programming originates from pay cable sources where viewers actually pay to watch the programming. Most of the CanCon that worth consuming now is reality TV. And not trashy Reality TV either, Home improvement shows, Finance Shows, Cooking sompetition shows. All good CanCon but not scripted dramas. Heartland on CBC is decent show, but it's not appointment viewing. Edited July 8, 2014 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 The truth is, scripted drama is very expensive to produce. Even in the USA, the most successful scripted programming originates from pay cable sources where viewers actually pay to watch the programming. That's not exactly true. Arguably our best export was Trailer Park Boys, clearly produced independently on a low budget. The CBC rejected it, of course. Most of the CanCon that worth consuming now is reality TV. And not trashy Reality TV either, Home improvement shows, Finance Shows, Cooking sompetition shows. All good CanCon but not scripted dramas. Heartland on CBC is decent show, but it's not appointment viewing. This is looking backward at our failures, though, not at what could be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 That's not exactly true. Arguably our best export was Trailer Park Boys, clearly produced independently on a low budget. The CBC rejected it, of course. There are success stories, Corner Gas is another one. But often they're few and far between. There was a Canadian-German project a few years back called Pillars of the Earth which was an excellent example of scripted drama, but it was broadcast on TMN so you had to pony up $20/month to watch it. This is looking backward at our failures, though, not at what could be... What type of failure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 What type of failure? The unhealthy combination of politics, bureaucracy and culture that produces artistic and commercial failures at an astonishing rate. Quebec has somehow done the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 The unhealthy combination of politics, bureaucracy and culture that produces artistic and commercial failures at an astonishing rate. Quebec has somehow done the opposite. I think the fact that bureaucracy and politics play a part in entertainment in Canada is part of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I think the fact that bureaucracy and politics play a part in entertainment in Canada is part of the problem. Of course. That should be so obvious as to not require agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I think the idea of a "media fund" is an outdated idea. But I guess CanCon can't be made without it now. So what came first...CanCon or the Media Fund ? Was there a more successful business model before CanCon ? The truth is, scripted drama is very expensive to produce. Even in the USA, the most successful scripted programming originates from pay cable sources where viewers actually pay to watch the programming. Depends on what you mean by "successful". Historically, U.S. broadcast networks have made a lot more money on scripted dramas than pay cable because of the old advertising model. It was the writer's strike, and later, new distribution channels that broke the old revenue model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Make Canadian content worth watching, and Canadians will watch it. Don't, and they won't. which presumes upon a non-existent level playing field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Just make Netflix Canada's state broadcaster instead of the CBC and spend that billion on better programming. Work the "net" with a hockey angle to sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Just make Netflix Canada's state broadcaster instead of the CBC and spend that billion on better programming. Work the "net" with a hockey angle to sell it. again... with your "state broadcaster" best! Clearly, you're inflamed, incensed, thrashing out and crying for attention! by the by, why would any self-respecting (claimed) American care a rats-ass about the CBC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) That's not exactly true. Arguably our best export was Trailer Park Boys, clearly produced independently on a low budget. The CBC rejected it, of course. They also rejected 'Intelligence', a well written and independently produced beauty that CBC dumped after two seasons, in the middle of a compelling story arc. I think the fact that bureaucracy and politics play a part in entertainment in Canada is part of the problem. But those are not necessary elements, they are factors that some continue to insist be a part of keeping CBC on life support when clearly there is no further business or cultural purpose in maintaining that situation.There is an excellent example of a public, non profit broadcaster that has sidestepped both politics and bureaucracy to provide what their supporters want. It is CKUA radio in Alberta, a provincial radio network that used to suck at the government teat but is now supported directly by listeners. It is a cultural icon in AB and beyond, very well regarded by artists and heavily involved in promotion of the arts in general. CBC could move to this funding and governance model, but it would require something that will never happen: CBC "supporters" have to put their money where their mouths are, instead of demanding that everybody pay for their entertainment choices. Edited July 17, 2014 by overthere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 It is CKUA radio in Alberta, a provincial radio network that used to suck at the government teat but is now supported directly by listeners. It is a cultural icon in AB and beyond, very well regarded by artists and heavily involved in promotion of the arts in general. CBC could move to this funding and governance model, but it would require something that will never happen: CBC "supporters" have to put their money where their mouths are, instead of demanding that everybody pay for their entertainment choices. again with that same analogy??? Given the mandates and scope, there is quite obviously no foundation to compare them. What you fail to mention, again, is that the radio station was gifted it's new building/location... it runs everything on a shoestring budget, it had to shut down AM because it couldn't afford to fix transmitters, it relies heavily on volunteers, it quite literally pays it's personnel 'peanuts', etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 There are success stories, Corner Gas is another one. But often they're few and far between. There was a Canadian-German project a few years back called Pillars of the Earth which was an excellent example of scripted drama, but it was broadcast on TMN so you had to pony up $20/month to watch it. A lot of people don't realize that eOne is a Canadian company, and they make a lot of shows that do quite well at home and in the US without CBC support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 again with that same analogy??? Given the mandates and scope, there is quite obviously no foundation to compare them. What you fail to mention, again, is that the radio station was gifted it's new building/location... it runs everything on a shoestring budget, it had to shut down AM because it couldn't afford to fix transmitters, it relies heavily on volunteers, it quite literally pays it's personnel 'peanuts', etc.. Yes, I understand you don't want to pay for your own entertainment, which is how CKUA funds its operations: by listeners who care enough to cough up. Instead, you seem to want CBC to continue to produce shit nobody watches at extremely high cost to everybody else. Why not a listener or viewer supported model, which has worked extremely well at the oldest public broadcaster in Canada: CKUA. It shut down AM years ago mostly because the entire planet now has FM reception and the sound quality is far better than AM. The network(far bigger than a single station) was not 'gifted' their new building, they applied for funding available to any community organization and got it on merit. Yes, merit. If their application had failed, they would have continued in their old or other premises, as they have for a long time. I know this because I personally have done grant applications for two other non profits and know the process in Alberta. Heres another newsflash: those organiztions that create revenue for their own operations have a vastly greater chance of approvals for capital grants than those that don't. CKUA raises lots of dough themselves. It makes a huge difference. They are extremely well managed. You don't approve of volunteers in non profit or\ganizations? Why not? You think they get paid too little? Send more money then. They don't seem to have a problem with it, many of the on and off air people at CKUA have been there for years, some for decades. Oh wait, you like CBC(but not enough to pay for it yourself) and support a business model that ensures a huge array of management and staff producing rubbish that nobody watches. I am employing my psychic powers and guessing you are not self employed or in charge of any kind of budget. The analogy is meant to provide a new business model for public broadcasting, or rather employing one that has worked very well. It's an upgrade from yours, which I believe is centered on Wayne and Shuster reruns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I hope the Harper government finally dismantles the CBC with the next budget. What a bloated waste of taxpayer's dollars. We don't need to be paying for television and radio stations. It's a dead medium. More than that, it's the attack dog for the left-wing fanatics in this country who would turn Canada into a failed socialist state like all the others if they had their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I hope the Harper government finally dismantles the CBC with the next budget. What a bloated waste of taxpayer's dollars. We don't need to be paying for television and radio stations. It's a dead medium. More than that, it's the attack dog for the left-wing fanatics in this country who would turn Canada into a failed socialist state like all the others if they had their way. Not sure what's going with you Cyber, but most of us know you don't believe what you are preaching here (lately). I sincerely appreciated your posts from your other perspective and that is the perspective I like and look forward to reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 My wish is that the federal government dismantles CBC TV, which is dying because it cannot compete in an industry that is rapidly leaving a failing business model. The traditional networks are all suffering and that won't change. Aside from the reality that CBC does not make anything that anybody wants to watch, like other networks they won't find enough ad revenue to support themselves in the near future. I'd like to see CBC Radio continue on the revenue model described in previous posts, or any other way that their listeners choose to pay for it. They can keep the real estate and equipment as a parting generous gift from taxpayers. Bon voyage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 It's simple. If kids can make money on YouTube screaming into a microphone like idiots while playing video games, but the CBC can't make money with full production networks run by professionals, there's a problem. Obviously that money is going somewhere and it's not being used wisely enough to make money. Put the CBC out of its misery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted August 13, 2014 Report Share Posted August 13, 2014 So all of you who want CBC to disappear, say you get your wish, what do we have left...SunTV an all American news! Even though its in Canada, they spend more time talking about the US, but I guess just what they plans are to "harmonize" more stuff with the US until we ARE the US. Harper agenda is to get rid of CBC and by all the cuts and people losing their jobs, which the Tories are really good at, its time we Canadians make THEM stand on the unemployment line in the next election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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