A Muslim immigrant's letter to South Vancouver MP Wai Young's

[hardworker786]

I've seen the impact this kind of red tape can have on people and their families. Yes, Canada has the sovereign right to run things any way it wishes, but we get a lot of sponsored employees and contractors jumping through hoops just to stay legal. They have shown me the stack of "official" letters. The U.S. may be no better at times, but not because it is less "enlightened" than Canada.

Not only that, I think its something that adversely impacts those that think themselves free from such red tape. The structures put in place post 9/11 can often affect Americans/Canadians who think that they are above that kind of thing. I know that this is not directly related to foreign workers, but I'm mentioning it as part of the larger discussion. For example, the occupy wall street movement in the U.S. has been heavily targeted (its key leaders etc.) by tools that were bought into existence as part of the Patriot Act.

[bush_cheney2004]

Very disruptive to personal lives.

Thank you for acknowledging that. There is something so deeply human when it comes to my need for acknowledgement. Your comment may seem trivial to you, but it makes a lot of difference to me. Thank you.

Best of luck in resolving this issue quickly....I think you have a great chance because of your spouse and will ultimately prevail. But the hassles and expense can be maddening. There is a woman in my office who just got her U.S. citizenship....she was so happy she put dozens of U.S. flags all around her office. She just beams happiness over this achievement, and it should be no different in Canada.

[hardworker786]

Best of luck in resolving this issue quickly....I think you have a great chance because of your spouse and will ultimately prevail. But the hassles and expense can be maddening. There is a woman in my office who just got her U.S. citizenship....she was so happy she put dozens of U.S. flags all around her office. She just beams happiness over this achievement, and it should be no different in Canada.

At the risk of offending Canadians on this forum, I have found American bureaucracy to be much faster and more responsive. Maybe that is a personal bias. As I stated at the beginning, my reasons for moving from America to Canada were based on a) my wife's desire to live in Canada and b> because I thought that Vancouver was a nice place to raise my kids. I just might end up moving back. The problem, though, is that is easier said than done. Uprooting after 5 years of having lived in Vancouver and moving back is very hard with two kids.

Edited May 9, 2014 by hardworker786

[hardworker786]

Plus, I am addicted to Tim Hortons. I really love Vancouver. Its a nice place. People are so nice. Weather's great. My wife's parents live her etc. She's happy here. When she's happy I'm happy. Man. I wish they would just give me an answer! yes or no!

Edited May 9, 2014 by hardworker786

[bush_cheney2004]

At the risk of offending Canadians on this forum, I have found American bureaucracy to be much faster and more responsive.....

Understood...as Americans (native born or naturalized), we sometimes take such things for granted. I see anecdotal evidence of this at work, the post office (where emigres often get and complete forms that will determine their fate), the bank, doctor's office, driver license bureau, etc. If one takes time to notice, it is easy to see real people who are at risk of losing employment, residency, and other benefits over things I take for granted.

My experience with mostly H1B employees has been that Canada and the USA represent two chances to get better opportunities and lives for their families. Crossing the border with permanent residency takes a lot of pressure and anxiety away over being denied entry or deported. We have Indian and Pakistani employees who are afraid to fly home on holiday for fear of not being admitted upon return (post 9/11).

[bush_cheney2004]

Plus, I am addicted to Tim Hortons. I really love Vancouver. Its a nice place. People are so nice. Weather's great. My wife's parents live her etc. She's happy here. When she's happy I'm happy. Man. I wish they would just give me an answer! yes or no!

Yes..."happy wife...happy life".

[hardworker786]

Understood...as Americans (native born or naturalized), we sometimes take such things for granted. I see anecdotal evidence of this at work, the post office (where emigres often get and complete forms that will determine their fate), the bank, doctor's office, driver license bureau, etc. If one takes time to notice, it is easy to see real people who are at risk of losing employment, residency, and other benefits over things I take for granted.

My experience with mostly H1B employees has been that Canada and the USA represent two chances to get better opportunities and lives for their families. Crossing the border with permanent residency takes a lot of pressure and anxiety away over being denied entry or deported. We have Indian and Pakistani employees who are afraid to fly home on holiday for fear of not being admitted upon return (post 9/11).

Exactly. There is a segment of the population that native and naturalized people are not aware of in terms of hwo their lives are impacted. It also impacts people like myself, who basically grew up in the West, but still fall under a category that is sometimes viewed suspiciously by both governments. I am an "American/Canadian" if you spoke to me. I love both countries. For the most part,I don't mind the little bit of extra scrutiny. If you compare my treatment in the U.S. and Canada to other places in the world, I am still very lucky. But, this whole leaving me hanging for immigration deal has really tested my good will.

Edited May 9, 2014 by hardworker786

[cybercoma]

Just out of curiosity, why isn't now the best time for going to the media?

Because the sad reality is that the media is on a witch hunt for foreign workers, but they don't care about the white Australian kid serving beer in Whistler, BC. If you're Indian, you're possibly the wrong colour to be complaining about immigration in Canada right now. That's the sad, racist truth about the TFW issue. And if you're thinking, "but I'm not a temporary foreign worker." You're absolutely right. However, most Canadians, if you read the comment sections on news sites, are too blunt to understand that there's a difference between TFWs and immigrants. Hell, they don't even want to hear that there's a difference between TFWs at McDonalds and TFWs that are legitimately needed. Regardless, nobody cares about the white American, the white Brit, or the white Australian that moves here and takes jobs. They care about people that look different than them. I don't think the racism is consciously intentional, but it's certainly there despite the very legitimate problem with the use of TFWs in jobs that should have absolutely no right to use them. Edited May 9, 2014 by cybercoma

[WWWTT]

Plus, I am addicted to Tim Hortons. I really love Vancouver. Its a nice place. People are so nice. Weather's great. My wife's parents live her etc. She's happy here. When she's happy I'm happy. Man. I wish they would just give me an answer! yes or no!

If you have a work permit, health card and drivers licence, then a PR card will only let you in and out of the country.

WWWTT

[Argus]

The numbers aren't dumb, but I think I know who may be.

You?

Edited May 9, 2014 by Argus

[Argus]

Hang in for another year. Hopefully we'll have a new government.

Which will, of course, change absolutely NOTHING.

[Argus]

You are right. I apologize to Argus. Please accept my apologies Argus.

Okay, fine. But remember, just because someone has issues with immigration as a program, its failure rate, inefficiencies, cost, etc., does not mean they're going to take that out on individuals who come here looking for a better life.

[Argus]

At the risk of offending Canadians on this forum, I have found American bureaucracy to be much faster and more responsive. Maybe that is a personal bias. As I stated at the beginning, my reasons for moving from America to Canada were based on a) my wife's desire to live in Canada and b> because I thought that Vancouver was a nice place to raise my kids. I just might end up moving back. The problem, though, is that is easier said than done. Uprooting after 5 years of having lived in Vancouver and moving back is very hard with two kids.

Red tape and screwups happen all the time. I have been on the phone to the IRS for over two years now trying to get them to fix the most basic, and obvious mistake. I have an ITIN, which for the rest of you is sort of a social security number for foreigners. Every time I call they see the issue is that the number was put into a temporary folder in 2011 and not moved to where it should be. The problem is the people I talk to are in Philadelphia. The people who can make changes are in Texas. The people in Philadelphia have no phone number of email contacts with the people in Austin. All they can do is send them a fax and hope something happens. This January I got a formal letter from the people in Austin confirming my number -- but they never moved it into the right folder... sigh.

So I can see where the bureaucracy could dump someone's security immigration file somewhere in limbo, waiting for something, for years. That's why somebody from the outside, like an MPs office, needs to draw some attention to it to find out why the hold.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Argus

[cybercoma]

Which will, of course, change absolutely NOTHING.

So true. I wish I could remember the title of it, but I read a great book awhile back that talked about just how much leeway bureaucrats have over immigration. It's crazy. And apparently it has been that way since at least the early 20th century.

[Argus]

Because the sad reality is that the media is on a witch hunt for foreign workers, but they don't care about the white Australian kid serving beer in Whistler, BC. If you're Indian, you're possibly the wrong colour to be complaining about immigration in Canada right now. That's the sad, racist truth about the TFW issue.

This is complete blather. Canadians are concerned about the TFW program because it's working to supply workers which aren't needed, pushing wages down and pushing lower skilled (and sometimes higher skilled) Canadians onto unemployment.

There is NO evidence whatever that Canadians would feel any differently if the foreigners were from white countries.

[Argus]

So true. I wish I could remember the title of it, but I read a great book awhile back that talked about just how much leeway bureaucrats have over immigration. It's crazy. And apparently it has been that way since at least the early 20th century.

It's called policy. Policy is designed to insulate those at the top from being called on bad decisions. If the decision is being made because of policy, well then, no matter how dumb the decision is, nobody can really be put on the hot seat for it. This is why people at the top LOVE policy, and make as much of it as possible. Bureacracies have tons of policies, and they cause no end of problems. But they do their job in absolving the people on top of any real responsibility.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Argus

[monty16]

Hundreds of Muslims every day immigrating to Canada? Have you done a count we can rely upon or is that just a comment you are making to show your disdain for the number of Muslims immigrating to Canada? Are more Muslims coming to Canada than what would please you? Compared to Buddhists? Do you have a number for Buddhists too?

Not to suggest anything but I'm trying to determine some attitudes and attitudinal problems of this forum's posters for future reference.

[Rue]

Ok fine. I get it. You're conservative. I can deduce as much from your posts. But, take away the references that seem to offend you and you would agree that my treatment has been unfair correct?

How can he make that judgement when you have controlled all the evidence you ask him to consider in making such a judgement?

How can he make that judgement when he can't possibly know the reason for the delay?

Sounds to me like you want people to see you as a victim of Muslim discrrimination without any evidence to indicate that.

Some have bought what you said verbatum, others like me will not because we believe there is insufficient evidence from which to make the concluson you seek.

What I have noted in your words is you show disdain for not just your American citizenship but Canadian laws.

So does it surprise me you play the Muslim victim card and claim discrimination because you are a Muslim, no.

Does it surprise me you have been adversarial and confrontational with people who would not agree with you, no.

Do I think you are being discriminated against simply because you are a Muslim? Well in the absence of any evidence to show that, I can not come to that conclusion.

Do I think you are being treated unfairly, I can not answer. I have no way of knowing.

if you want unconditional acceptance of your views you are getting it.

Not from me. I have great compassion for immigrants and refugees. I am the child of both. All I know is that the experiences my family and other immigrant families and refugees families went through were not easy. Whether we were Chinese, Siek, other Asian, Ukainian, Jewish, Irish, Scottish, etc., on and on on, none of us had it easy. We came and we come. We had and will have obstacles and barriers.

However I do not feel comfortable with people like you calling themselves victims. I know plenty of immigrants and refugees who find your taking for granted your American citizenship a red flag let alone your complaining about having to wait.

From what I read you think you are a victim but it could simply be you feel entitled.

If there is a delay in clearing you which know one has any way of knowing that would not surprise me either. The apperatus in which security clearance is obtained is back-logged for all immigrants.

No government can be all things to all people. It has limits in its capacity to operate. You want to play that as victimizing you sorry I aint buyin.

Here is one story why.

I met a man who had seconds to flee his village in Zimbabew with his wife. He had to leave his family behind. His crime-being a teacher, Mugabe had gone on a campaign wiping out all the teachers.

This man escaped into South Africa and came to Canada as a refugee. When I met the man he walked 3 hours a day to see his wife in another hostel a and then walk back to his. He put a newspaper in his shoes to protect his feet from the holes. His wife almost died from tuberculosis and he went to t he hospital every day and walekd 4 hours there and back because he saved his bus money.

He got up every morning early and went out to Canada's wonderland for a minimum wage job. He could not fix his teeth, his infected feet, but he worked. He saved every penny. Then he got a job as a janitor in a synagogue. He worked and he worked and he saved his money and he went back to Ryseron part-time and he is a teacher now.

He struggled over 8 years. He never complained.

I know many like him. When I was young we took in a Muslim family from Uganda. They lived in a basement. They had nothing and they worked and saved amnd eventually they found factory jobs.

My housekeeper escaped from the Ukraine with nothing.

Excuse me I save my energy for people like them or my relatives who fled to this country or fellow immigrants who fled to this country escaping catastrophes, famines ir seing jobs and when they came here, did not complain and bitch.

Save that attitude. Stop playing the Muslim card. I know plenty of Muslim immigrants and they friggin waited like my family did and every other immigrant Canadian did and there were and are plenty of us.

People die trying to get to the US to work and you have citizenship and whine you lost a job in Dallas? Where have you been? Are you the only one to lose their job whether it be in the US or Canada.?

Excuse me if I spend my time supporting people who fight-who don't whine, who grit their teeth and see things through.

We Americans and Canadians, you think we know what tomorrow has in store either? What makes you think we know? Any of us could lose our jobs

Had you started your post saying you understand why there is a delay and were not playing the Muslim card I would have been the first to say hang in there you can do it.

You did not. You came on this forum shocasing the words MUSLIM IMMIGRANT. You brought those words to the table.

You chose to play them as an automatic adminission card into the victim club.

I live in the country you make sound like some exclusive golf club. Its not. You don't want to play by the rules everyone else has had to who came here, that does not make you a victim just someone with his nose out of joint that he has to wait in line.

Sounds to me you think you are above waiting in lines.....could it be you were not used to waiting in lines before and now you feel yegards, like the rest of us...get in line, stop grumbling and either wait your turn or move on.

Choice is yours.

You want me to show you some liberal guilt? No. I save my emotions and compassion for people who have faith in the system not people who piss on it.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Rue

[cybercoma]

Rue,

Here's a simple question for you: should immigrants have to wait over 5 years for a yes or no answer?

[hardworker786]

• Interests:being self-righteous

  annoying people

  engaging in confrontations

  being opionated

  spewing off at the mouth

  talking on and on

I would second the opinion you have of yourself.

[WestCoastRunner]

• Interests:being self-righteous

  annoying people

  engaging in confrontations

  being opionated

  spewing off at the mouth

  talking on and on

I would second the opinion you have of yourself.

Well said! Couldn't agree more.

[Rue]

Of course Wes you agree with those words or Hardwork or Cyber. Why do you think I put them up?

On this forum like all political forums people have opinions and when others don't like what they hear they engage in the name calling I have listed. I embrace those words. Love them. If those are the kinds of words people are throwing at me I welcome them.

Now on this thread a poster came on with a personal issue. He expects readers to accept his version of events. In his words he shows disrespect and disdain for his US citizenship and Canadian laws, plays the Muslim card claiming he is a victim of discrimination simply because he's a Muslim, pisses on Canada's current government claiming its anti immigration and he's

joined by some of you who because you agree with his partisan anti Harper agenda.

So you want to call me names because I won't accept what this person says verbatum? Lol. Why because I won't piss on Canada? Why because I won't accept his unsubstantiated allegations?

Lol bring on the insults.

I do not buy the victim card this person is playing and I have stated why and no one of you can even acknowledge the fact there are other immigrants and refugees who put up with the same thing and never pissed on Canada. Why?

You ever think his victim card is actually insulting to immigrants and refugees who waited so long and never complained?

Opionated? Why because I don't buy into someone pissing on the very hands he expects to embrace him? Lol. am I rude telling a rude person they are ungrateful? Lol.

I am not the issue but this person chose to make himself the issue by prefacing himself as a victim of Muslim discrimination.

I call b.s. I also call b.s. accusing the government of the day being anti-immigrant and I am a life time Liberal not Tory. This current government has bent over backwords to try look at our immigration policies and welcome immigrants. Go on for those of you claiming its anti-immigration, show the stats as to how many immigrants have come to Canada during Harper's reign. Go on.

Now to answer Cyber, the question you ask is not going to work because its not the issue. You try narrow the issue to a

a statement that tries to suggest there is only one position to make on this matter. No,

Here are the issues and you want me to answer them directly, you bet but you do not get to twist the question to force the answer you want to hear.

1. Do I think Canada has the right to do security checks before immigrants are given citizenship-yes. I do not want terrorists or criminals being admitted in this country as citizens. I do not give a damn whether the person is a Muslim, Christian, Jew,Bahaii, whatever, he or she needs a security check. This country as an obligation to protect its citizens.

2. How long should that security check take-well I do not know. How can I? I do not know the budget of the Immigration Ministry and therefore the money available for the part of operations that carries out the security checks and therefore given the manpower allocated for the security checks what their capacity is to do these checks and at what spead. I also don't know how much of any delay while doing a security check is beyond the control of our government and therefore may be causing the delays.

The question you ask is this-how much money do I think we should be asked to pay in taxes to make the government and this Ministry so large that it can do security checks quickly-I do not know. What I do know is that the same people who whine about their government whine even more when asked to pay more taxes to make it bigger.

What I also know is some security clearances take a long time because of situations outside the control of the Canadian government.

Did one of you people who jumped on this person' bad-wagon first stop to ascertain whether this was the case? Why do you assume its the fault of the Immigration Ministry and the delays are not being caused elsewhere? How do any of you know?

You don't.

So go ahead Wes, jump on those satirical words, call me names. Its par for the course on any forum when people say what they think. I am not here to be popular with you or liked. I am hear to express opinions and if you find them not to your liking of course that is your right,

I will tell you this again and you can call me all the names you want, I do not by Hardwork is a victim. What he has one, is provide words that indicate someone who feels entitled. He felt entitled to not being unemployed as a US citizen and when he lost his job he and then comes to Canada he now finds what he was looking for Canadians lining up to join him to piss on Canada with him.

Welcome to Canada a nation where the citizens of Canada take all their privileges for granted and piss on themselves with the slightest incitement.

Sorry I aint joining your piss on Canada session.

I di

Lo

Edited May 10, 2014 by Rue

[cybercoma]

So is that a yes? You think 5 years waiting is acceptable?

[hardworker786]

So is that a yes? You think 5 years waiting is acceptable?

I don't think you can win against him/her. Its not about exchanging ideas and intelligent debate-It's about something else. The anger he/she has is coming from somewhere else, an undisclosed place that cannot be revealed by said carrier. Its the dog whistle of politics. But, you can pick up the theme with a little bit of deft rhetorical analysis. Suffice it to say that his/her assumption that I moved to Canada due to unemployment when no where in my posts have I cited that as a reason for moving here is ample proof of his/her predisposition. In fact, if I had stayed on in the U.S., I would have had better employment prospects, and I knew that WHEN I moved. But, facts and the truth do not matter here. Rue's the kind of constituent that gives Harper wet dreams.

Of course, not all Conservatives are hostile to "ungrateful" immigrants who dare questions unfair procedures. I agree with a lot of the social and fiscal policies the Conservatives espouse. But, there is a certain segment no doubt. And Rue is proudly representing it.

Edited May 10, 2014 by hardworker786

[bleeding heart]

His post is silly, and best ignored.