Ontario Budget 2014 -- Election

[Boges]

I was thinking the big issue an Ontario election would be fought on was punitive transit taxes. BUT Wynne and the Liberals figured out that increasing the Gas Tax and the HST was political suicided so they backed off.

They released their budget today and not much was said about transit "revenue tools". But they seem to be going all out on an Ontario version of the CPP.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/05/01/ontario_liberals_table_budget_that_could_be_reelection_platform.html

To that end, qualifying workers will contribute up to 1.9 per cent of their earnings — to be matched by their employer — paying out up to $25,000 annually for future retirees who have paid into it. That would be on top of the CPP maximum payout of $12,500.

But it would mean an additional $788 deduction for the annual pay for someone making $45,000.

The budget also INCREASES the deficit. This is galling considering the feds are set to balance the books next year, some say the books are already balanced.

And election could be called for June 12 if the NDP plan on defeating the budget.

The government is stale and, I'd argue, very dangerous. They need to go, I wonder if this attempt to take more from the people of Ontario will end up being their death nell.

[socialist]

This is a great budget for the residents of Ontario. I heard Sid Ryan is in favor of it and that is good enough for me.

[Argus]

So here's the thing about the Ontario Liberals. Every year they increase taxes, and yet the Ontario budget deficit continues to grow. I'm not sure if they're the most fiscally incompetent and irresponsible government in Canada, but they're close to it. They first took office with a promise not to hike taxes, a promise they broke their first day in office, with massive new tax hikes they blamed on their predecessor's budget deficit. Only problem was, while they hiked taxes by enough to basically eliminate the existing (exaggerated/dishonest) deficit they claimed the tories left, they increased spending even more, doubling the deficit.

Over the years since then they've done everything they can to wrangle every last dollar out of Ontarions, with a wide variety of tax increases, including income tax hikes, while their ridiculous and irresponsible energy policies have doubled electricity prices, and continue to increase them by leaps and bounds. Meanwhile, the deficit has never come anywhere close to what it was the last year of the Ontario Tories because the Liberals continue to consider the idea of spending cuts an entirely foreign concept.

So here I am, forced to vote for Hudak in the next election. The Ontario Liberals are just THAT incompetent.

[Shady]

I agree. I find Hudak completely uninspiring, but the choices are limited. And Ontario just can't afford more of the nonsense that's been going on. They're turning us into Detroit.

[Remiel]

Why do you have to vote for Hudak and just not the Liberals?

[Argus]

Why do you have to vote for Hudak and just not the Liberals?

We only have the one choice, it seems, if we want some fiscal responsibility. That certainly isn't going to come from the NDP. This budget was drafted, in part, to please the NDP. Big tax increases and big spending increases are what make them feel warm and fuzzy inside.

[Keepitsimple]

Billions in waste, incompetence and corruption - Ornge, eHealth,the Green Energy debacle, and the Gas Plant scandal are the big ticket items that we know of. There are probably many other "not so visible" ones that have slipped under the radar. If an Ontario Pension Plan had even an iota of actual merit, what sane person would trust this despicable Liberal Party with its planning, design and implementation?

[Bryan]

The Liberals simply don't understand that increasing taxes hurts the overall economy, thereby reducing the revenue they are going to take in. They keep going in an endless circle of seeing revenues go down, increasing the taxes more, seeing revenues drop even more, rinse and repeat. It's the old saying about the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

When you explain the problem to them, all you get back is them sticking their fingers in their ears and claiming "trickle down doesn't work". You can even show them how well it is working for the federal government right now, and they still insist "nope, doesn't work".

[Moonlight Graham]

8.4% of the budget (11 billion dollars) goes to paying the interest on the government's debt. And they INCREASED the deficit this year (and by extension of course, the debt), not reduced it. If that isn't a disgrace and reason alone to not only balance the budget but pay down the debt, I don't know what is.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Moonlight Graham

[Bob Macadoo]

All it would take is for Hudak to go back to Walmart and hand the reins over to Elliott. It would be culling of all Liberal non strongholds.

[Wayward Son]

The Liberals simply don't understand that increasing taxes hurts the overall economy, thereby reducing the revenue they are going to take in. They keep going in an endless circle of seeing revenues go down, increasing the taxes more, seeing revenues drop even more, rinse and repeat. It's the old saying about the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

Completely untrue. The Ontario government's revenues have been going up year after year. Yes, for two years during the worst of the economic collapse their revenues dropped, but by the following year they were at record highs again and have increased every year since. They are currently about 60% higher then they were the last year of the PC government. I hate the Ontario Liberals with a passion. Their scandals and corruption (one of which affected me personally, and from which I will suffer financially for the rest of my life) are at a level where I simply can't believe that they will not be wiped off the map, never to recover, similar to the old Federal PCs in 93. But unfortunately the general public seems to be willing to accept that over the alternatives. Their abysmal record speaks so strongly for itself that there is no need to make up crap about it.

[Bryan]

Completely untrue. The Ontario government's revenues have been going up year after year. Yes, for two years during the worst of the economic collapse their revenues dropped, but by the following year they were at record highs again and have increased every year since.

Interesting. I've got no dog in the fight in Ontario, so I've got no reason to defend or attack anyone, I was just going by what I read. I guess I should know better by now than to accept what I read in the mainstream media at face value. I was going by this article:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/05/01/ontario-budget-2014-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-budget-from-higher-taxes-a-new-pension-plan/

…that stated revenues were down by $1.2 billion. Now that I re-read it though, it seems like it's actually saying revenues were down from what was projected, not what was collected.

[Wayward Son]

The way I see it there are at least 4 ways this budget can be looked at:

Is it good for yourself? (beats me)

Is it good for the province? (I lack the expertise to assess that)

Should it be rejected by the opposition parties on principle as the Liberals have shown themselves to be groundbreaking when it comes waste, incompetence, corruption and unethical behaviour?

Should support or opposition for the budget be based on what you view to be the political consequences of an election?

I feel that Sid Ryan is squarely in the fourth camp (afraid of a potential Hudak government). I personally feel that it would be unethical to prop up this completely unethical government so that leaves me in the third camp.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Wayward Son

[Boges]

Someone pointed this out on the radio last night. Think of how much they could invest in transit if they started paying off the debt.

Yet they want to lecture Ontarians about savings by forcing every employer into an Ontario Pension Plan. Which any sensible person would predict will be a boondoggle.

This budget is so left, it tries to squeeze out the NDP. That's a failed strategy as it also alienates the centre to centre-right. That's now up for grabs for the Tories in areas of the province where the NDP are a non-factor.

[PIK]

Who cares if hudak is a piece of wood, there is no other way. And if the NDP are for the little guy, it is time for her to tell the unions you have had it great for a decade and it is time for the rest to be given a break.

[Big Guy]

In preparation for elections, both the left and the right move towards the center in order to get votes. The NDP has moved so far towards the center that this Liberal budget looks like a proposed NDP budget. Hudak, like Tory before him, tied a stone around his neck. Tory had private school funding and Hudak has his "right-to-vote" pledge.

I believe that Horvath would have a difficult time rationalizing a vote against this budget. There is very little chance that her NDP would win an election caused by voting against this budget and she must realize that a Hudak budget would be nothing like this.

I think that the Liberals would love to be defeated on this budget and go into the next election based on these proposals.

I have no idea why the Progressive Conservatives are hanging on to Hudak.

[Boges]

More baseless Hudak bashing. I'm assuming you mean Right-to-Work, which he backed off of. Removing Hudak in a minority situation would have given Wynne a perfect opportunity to call a snap election. McGuinty and Harper lost their first elections, not sure why Hudak hasn't been given the same slack.

If you don't believe him regarding Right-to-Work, then I assume you also don't believe Wynne really won't raise the Gas Tax and HST if they do win a majority this time around.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Boges

[Boges]

Also Horvath can't justify supporting another Liberal budget if they hope to differentiate themselves.

BREAKING NEWS!!!!!

Horvath says she can't support the budget.

ELECTION!!!!!

[Big Guy]

Just watched Horvath responding on TV. She is NOT going to support that budget. Looks like an election coming. She focussed on her belief that the Liberals will not follow through with the proposals but did not actually criticize the proposals. Interesting move.

She is voting against the Liberals because of their dishonesty etc not their policies. It worked for the Harper Conservatives. It will be interesting to see if it will work for the NDP.

Word "trust" was used about 20 times during the TV presentation. I think I know the slogan for the next election.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Big Guy

[Topaz]

This morning NDP leader says she won't support the liberals budget and she said its time for the people of Ontario to go to the polls and give their choice as leader. Since the GTA, has the majority of voters, perhaps there is a chance for the NDP to get a minority, since many don't like the PC leader.

[Boges]

The slogan should be "$1.1 Billion wasted on Gas Plants"

[Boges]

OK now we have 3 threads. MODS?

If Ontario gives this corrupt party another kick at the can it'll be the worst thing this province EVER did.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Boges

[overthere]

Andrew Coyne was not impressed:http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/05/01/andrew-coyne-wynnes-budget-makes-bob-raes-ndp-look-like-flinty-eyed-fiscal-conservatives/

[Boges]

I heard him on the radio this morning. The Ontario Pension Plan idea is a disaster waiting to happen.

[Argus]

I heard him on the radio this morning. The Ontario Pension Plan idea is a disaster waiting to happen.

I'm in favor of increased retirement savings, but the problem with the way this is scheduled to work is the same as with CPP, UIC and other employment deductions, that they're basically a tax on employers which grows with every employee they hire. The obvious response from employers is to hire as few people as they can, to contract out services as much as possible, and to move work offshore, or in this case, out of Ontario, whenever they can.