Moderating Mapleafweb's Moderation

[Smallc]

Quit trolling.

I'm actually serious. I've always respected his opinion, even when we disagreed...well, not lately, but, generally.

[cybercoma]

I'm actually serious. I've always respected his opinion, even when we disagreed...well, not lately, but, generally.

Argus has me on ignore because I constantly point out the racism in his arguments and he doesn't like that. Evidently, he would rather post on a forum where he doesn't have to evaluate his own arguments.

[Bob Macadoo]

Argus has me on ignore because I constantly point out the racism in his arguments and he doesn't like that. Evidently, he would rather post on a forum where he doesn't have to evaluate his own arguments.

It summed up what this topic was all about.........like fishing with dynamite.

[Argus]

I'm actually serious. I've always respected his opinion, even when we disagreed...well, not lately, but, generally.

Yes, not lately. Something happened in his life which turned him extremely bitter and all his posts now are so nasty that I know dealing with him will cause me to reply in kind. And since there is less leeway here if you're conservative, I'll likely be suspended before he would.

[Charles Anthony]

Any idiot can see quite plainly that the world is flat.

That is an archetypical troll post. It's one not believed by ...

....whatever.

Let us agree that the word "idiot" is either inflammatory and or ambiguous.

Oh, you think the world is round? Well, prove it! No, pictures won't do. They can easily be altered!

Something as obvious as this wouldn't likely engender much bother. But it doesn't take an awful lot of subtlety to get angry responses.

That subtlety is in dispute.

Let us keep running with your ironically globalist choice of analogy. Some folks complain about polite comments such as Anybody can see quite plainly that the world is flat.

Please note that simply saying something insulting is not trolling.

Wrong. Saying something insulting is a sub-set of trolling. Regardless, none of that matters because a personal attack is thread drift and being rude is disrespectful --- both violations are their own sub-sets within all of the rules and guidelines.

Once a discussion becomes personal, it becomes thread drift. Once a line of discussion becomes rude, it becomes personal. Once it becomes personal, it is thread drift. Acting on thread drift becomes important in moderation because it strips out the element of bias.

If you misunderstand/disbelieve a fellow member's statements and you honestly want to carry on a civil discussion, ask for an explanation and or for evidence. If the explanation and or evidence does not satisfy you, say so and move on. If you believe something is "trolling" then ignore it --- you might be wrong and living an illusion.

All you have to do is be polite and you will be fine. The bias is in favor of polite discussion.

Yes, but not very humid.

Boy, Canada sure is a stupid place.

This sort of leap in discussion is both thread drift and trolling --- trolling because we all accept that "stupid" is an insult.

The problem is that your hyperbolic dramatization is a poor illustration of what really happens in discussions.

What usually sets people afflame is when somebody says something like Boy, Canada sure is a rainy place too. to which somebody has a conniption fit exclaiming Canada is not rainy!! I live in INSERT WHEREVER and we rarely get rain. How dare you accuse Canada of being rainy!!???!?? and then somebody else piles on with So what if Canada is rainy?!? Do you have anything against that??! Are you jealous? Perhaps you are not satisfied with our crop yields?!?? Invariably a dull drive-by Canada is rainy?? You say that like it is a bad thing! gets tossed into the mix.

Leaving any meteorological or geographic variations in perception you folks may have aside, trolling is a sub-set of the larger violation of thread drift --- the identification of which is usually impersonal. The identification of thread drift is more useful than everybody nodding their heads in agreement over some arbitrary concensus over the definition for the act of trolling.

Reiterating posts is trolling now,

No. Reiterating posts "with inflammatory language and personal attacks BEFORE the substance of the discussion is addressed" is trolling.

Misrepresenting somebody's writing is at least 1 of 2 things: an error in judgement which happens all of the time and or trolling.

[Big Guy]

To Charles - When any one poster has no respect for another, then there will never be a civilized communication. There are many angry posters here whose only purpose appears to be to make some others uncomfortable, sad or angry. There is no attempt at decent dialogue It is a game to them where a "winner" is the one who can insult the other the most frequently, the most decisively and with the most definitive put down - and not get barred.

They will continuously test the envelope of censorship and rejoice in their putting down of others. It really is a game and this anonymous medium is the perfect conduit for spreading venom.

[Charles Anthony]

To Charles - When any one poster has no respect for another, then there will never be a civilized communication.

That does not have to be so. Civilized communication can exist between folks who do not respect eachother.

Who is to decide what is civilized? If you guys do not than we have to step in. However, you all can make the 1st move by ignoring that which you believe is uncivilized. That is the only objective way of interpreting human action. Animals move away from things they do not like.

Engaging with that which we find objectionable is objectively no different than engaging with that which we find attractive. Is a boxing match a dance or a fight??

Personally, I am grateful most folks here are literate and can write coherently.

They will continuously test the envelope of censorship and rejoice in their putting down of others. It really is a game and this anonymous medium is the perfect conduit for spreading venom.

What is the envelope of censorship?

I agree with the gist of what you are saying. There are folks who intend to stifle productive discussion and trolling is their modus operandi. However, some folks engage them in intelligent discussion. One man's Tarzan is an other man's troll.

[Michael Hardner]

Personally, I am grateful most folks here are literate and can write coherently.

I agree. As much as people complain about the 'trolls', those long-time posters have mostly learned how to avoid insults and provide argument for their point of view. I find myself equally interested in arguments from either side these days.

[waldo]

Engaging with that which we find objectionable is objectively no different than engaging with that which we find attractive. Is a boxing match a dance or a fight??

is engaging a troll... a dance or a fight? Is your refusal to deal directly with trolls actually your personal aversion to engaging with what you find objectionable... or do you like the trolls cause they're good for ratings... and post counts?

.

[Big Guy]

That does not have to be so. Civilized communication can exist between folks who do not respect eachother.

Why would anybody who does not respect or like somebody want to communicate with them? Unless of course it is to cause them discomfort in some way. This is being done continuously and subsequently escalates where each tries to stretch the envelope to have the greatest or last insult.

[Charles Anthony]

Why would anybody who does not respect or like somebody want to communicate with them?

--- to influence information.

At least 1 of the parties to the dialogue is not genuinely communicating with the other. It just looks that way. The intended audience are non-participatory readers, non-member lurkers and employers.

[Argus]

--- to influence information.

At least 1 of the parties to the dialogue is not genuinely communicating with the other. It just looks that way. The intended audience are non-participatory readers, non-member lurkers and employers.

Bingo. Plus, most people are here to discuss ideas. Even if I have zero respect for you, that doesn't mean I don't feel the idea you have put forward should be ignored, that it doesn't present an opportunity to discredit it or point out the flaws of logic or evidence behind it.

[socialist]

To Charles - When any one poster has no respect for another, then there will never be a civilized communication. There are many angry posters here whose only purpose appears to be to make some others uncomfortable, sad or angry. There is no attempt at decent dialogue It is a game to them where a "winner" is the one who can insult the other the most frequently, the most decisively and with the most definitive put down - and not get barred.

They will continuously test the envelope of censorship and rejoice in their putting down of others. It really is a game and this anonymous medium is the perfect conduit for spreading venom.

How can someone make someone else feel sad on this forum? Good grief, are we turning into a culture of sis-says?

[GostHacked]

--- to influence information.

At least 1 of the parties to the dialogue is not genuinely communicating with the other. It just looks that way. The intended audience are non-participatory readers, non-member lurkers and employers.

Can you give us some examples of what you do feel is trolling? Mainly because I want to see if my recent posts fit into the trolling sphere.

[Charles Anthony]

Can you give us some examples of what you do feel is trolling?

No but I will give you enough to discuss/figure stuff on your own.

Here is a minor infraction and I am not going to identify the offending party because that is irrelevent:

never said anything about CO2 and smog... or global warming... you did! I simply pointed out the error you made; that, technically, referring to smog and ghg is not incorrect, particularly as, again, a principle component of smog is ground-level ozone (O3)... and its 2 principle source components are indirect GHGs, nitrogen oxides (NOx) and volatile organic compounds (VOCs)... with both related to (more so NOx) human burning of fossil-fuels. You really should know when to just go quiet and accept you made a false/incorrect statement.

I trust you won't continue to derail this thread.

You are more proving my point about pollution being a greater issue instead of singling out carbon dioxide.

A few posts were taken down because they were derailing the discussion and others were feeding it.

In my opinion, the derail was MORE than obvious and it kept being fed DESPITE others setting a good example before our very eyes by ignoring it. When the thread drift dies and others move on, you should avoid necromancing the trolling/drift by leaving it to die. If you refuse to ignore trolling/thread drift by feeding the trolling/thread drift, then your posts will get nixed and will be treated as trolling/thread drift.

Mainly because I want to see if my recent posts fit into the trolling sphere.

Take baby steps: Try to recognize thread drift and avoid feeding it.

How can someone make someone else feel sad on this forum? Good grief, are we turning into a culture of sis-says?

It works for me. I get sad when I read about sad things. You know, like, children being enslaved, tortured, starved to death and cannibalized by nasty people --- stuff like that. Nearly 99% of the media reports are hellishly depressing one way or an other. You can call me a sissy if you want.

I get sad whenever I read inane nonsense posted in the forums by otherwise intelligent members too.

[socialist]

No but I will give you enough to discuss/figure stuff on your own.

Here is a minor infraction and I am not going to identify the offending party because that is irrelevent:

A few posts were taken down because they were derailing the discussion and others were feeding it.

In my opinion, the derail was MORE than obvious and it kept being fed DESPITE others setting a good example before our very eyes by ignoring it. When the thread drift dies and others move on, you should avoid necromancing the trolling/drift by leaving it to die. If you refuse to ignore trolling/thread drift by feeding the trolling/thread drift, then your posts will get nixed and will be treated as trolling/thread drift.

Take baby steps: Try to recognize thread drift and avoid feeding it.

It works for me. I get sad when I read about sad things. You know, like, children being enslaved, tortured, starved to death and cannibalized by nasty people --- stuff like that. Nearly 99% of the media reports are hellishly depressing one way or an other. You can call me a sissy if you want.

I get sad whenever I read inane nonsense posted in the forums by otherwise intelligent members too.

I never get sad.

[GostHacked]

No but I will give you enough to discuss/figure stuff on your own.

Here is a minor infraction and I am not going to identify the offending party because that is irrelevent:

A few posts were taken down because they were derailing the discussion and others were feeding it.

In my opinion, the derail was MORE than obvious and it kept being fed DESPITE others setting a good example before our very eyes by ignoring it. When the thread drift dies and others move on, you should avoid necromancing the trolling/drift by leaving it to die. If you refuse to ignore trolling/thread drift by feeding the trolling/thread drift, then your posts will get nixed and will be treated as trolling/thread drift.

Take baby steps: Try to recognize thread drift and avoid feeding it.

It works for me. I get sad when I read about sad things. You know, like, children being enslaved, tortured, starved to death and cannibalized by nasty people --- stuff like that. Nearly 99% of the media reports are hellishly depressing one way or an other. You can call me a sissy if you want.

I get sad whenever I read inane nonsense posted in the forums by otherwise intelligent members too.

Actually as a long time member I have to look at the moderation team on MLW to tell me what is what. I can figure stuff out on my own, but they seem to be counter to what seems to be acceptable around here. I am against trolling, but yet the real obvious trolling is given a pass by the moderation. You can't complain about me contributing to thread drift if you can't or won't keep trolls in check. That is what is really shitting up this forum. Time and time again, many posters have explicitly expressed these concerns. All to have fallen on deaf ears. And even your responses have belittled anyone who has made complaints about trolling. So tell me what the hell are we to do?

So guess what, you fix the trolling, and you might fix thread drift. Otherwise, I could not give a flying profanity.

How old is this thread now? And how far have we come since then?

[bush_cheney2004]

--- to influence information.

At least 1 of the parties to the dialogue is not genuinely communicating with the other. It just looks that way. The intended audience are non-participatory readers, non-member lurkers and employers.

Agreed.....it is very naive to think otherwise, as if the only audience in a discussion are two such members. Some of theses members lash out with personal attacks because they choose to personalize posted ideas and comments intended for a much broader audience. I don't know why they do this, but some don't realize or understand their role and complicity in causing the very thing they whine so much about.

[waldo]

good to know that the major trolling around here is for the MLW board membership's benefit alone!

[socialist]

good to know that the major trolling around here is for the MLW board membership's benefit alone!

Quit whining and complaining. This is a great forum, but your constant complaining takes it down a notch or two.

[Ash74]

The good new is after he has one of these break downs socialist is gone for awhile.

[Bob Macadoo]

The good new is after he has one of these break downs socialist is gone for awhile.

Sometimes you gotta throw that change-up when you're trolling, else people might get bored.

[Charles Anthony]

Sometimes you gotta throw that change-up when you're trolling, else people might get bored.

Do you feel threatened by somebody who changes their views? Do you have a dog in a race?

Lots of my views flip flopped. Others became more extreme.

I came to this forum as a right-wing asshole. After reading thread after thread in the archives of past discussions which occurred before I joined, I changed my thoughts. I identified with a poorly thought out philosophy and I learned from an other guy who came to it as a former Marxist.

I could not believe it when he told me he was a Marxist --- completely diametrically opposed to everything he ever wrote here in the forums.

There are a couple of members of the forum who no longer post. We locked horns to the end over certain philosophical points. After many years, I realize they were right and I was wrong in specific arguments. They quit participating in the discussions around the same time I did. I never got a chance to thank them. Both of them had an uncanny ability to keep a discussion going in the most civil manner when faced with trolling --- doing so often with clever humor.

So tell me what the hell are we to do?

Same as it ever was: report whatever-you-perceive-to-be-trolling, ignore it and move on.

Indeed, many posters complain about trolling. Sometimes we agree. Sometimes we disagree. What is a moderator to do?

I don't know why they do this,

--- because they intend to stifle discussion. It is that simple.

[Bob Macadoo]

Do you feel threatened by somebody who changes their views? Do you have a dog in a race?

Not at all. This is not a change of view. This is a change of troll. This schtick come about every other month or so. Go ahead if you want. I ignore the member's pedantic posts as it is......flipping 180 and being rude about it will receive the same.

[cybercoma]

So tell me what the hell are we to do?

Troll back, since obviously it's acceptable.