Boeing 777 Disappears Near Vietnam

WWWTT · April 7, 2014

A xponder identifies the plane to Air Traffic Control regardless of what country it's in. But only when it's functioning.

Or if it is switched off.

WWWTT

On Guard for Thee · April 7, 2014

Or if it is switched off.

WWWTT

Which brings us right back to at least one of the square one's. The only way you could know if the xponder was switched off or failed would be to be in that cockpit. I have heard some of these reporters droning on about "there may be evidence the xponder was switched off" i'd like to hear what that evidence is.

WWWTT · April 7, 2014

Never said if "I believe" or "don't believe".

Nor did I use any terms such as wish, hope, anticipate, etc.

I'm actually trying to remain indifferent.

But it seems that most people discussing this believe that this plane IS destroyed, despite the fact there is no evidence of this at all.

When something turns up, obviously that will become the direction of this case.

WWWTT

I should correct myself here.

I do wish that all onboard this plane are still safe and sound!

That would be the best outcome in my opinion.

WWWTT

WWWTT · April 7, 2014

Which brings us right back to at least one of the square one's. The only way you could know if the xponder was switched off or failed would be to be in that cockpit. I have heard some of these reporters droning on about "there may be evidence the xponder was switched off" i'd like to hear what that evidence is.

I believe that only the cabin crew are the only ones that can confirm the problem.

The cabin crew may be under the impression that their transponder is working fine. But how would they know?

As I pointed out earlier, from what I have read, the transponder is very important, so much so that there is a second back up!

And is not the only form of communication either.

As well the plane backtracked over well traversed shipping lanes and into known tracked air space.

If there was a problem, then the pilots would try to immediately safely land the plane.

But when we hear that the engine was pinging OK for up to possibly 7 hours after the tracking devise was turned off, that has to irk investigators!

WWWTT

guyser · April 7, 2014

Already posted the link, not up to me for you to check it.

No you didnt.

Please post them here, all 239 of them.

WestCoastRunner · April 8, 2014

As for the pings the chance of finding in the sea that deap the black box is less than 1% and it probably ied out by now. The assumption the black box survived intact then could rest at a deep bottom of the ocean and keep working without being compromised by the pressure of the ocean, temperature, duration of battery, etc. is huge.

One poster asked if pings could be mammals such as dolphins. Its actuall a great question. Sonic signals from whales or dolphins/porpoises can be picked up by ship radar but the chance of it being mistaken for a ship radar, or ship or black box is highly unlikley. Different frequency. I defer to the experts if there are any but my basic knowledge of the brain of these mammals is their signal is easily detectable and is different and is often compromised by ship radar and can actually kill them or drive them insane but black box pings not the same.

I was listening to the press conference by the australians last night and an interview with the cmdr on the u.s. ship and they have both said that the pings could possibly come from the black boxes. They gave no indication that these boxes would not have survived in these deep waters and hearing two difference frequencies gave them more hope that the pings were coming from the two boxes. The frequencies that were chosen for these black boxes were chosen precisely to not interfere with frequencies of other means.

WWWTT · April 8, 2014

No you didnt.

Please post them here, all 239 of them.

Yes I did.

But you used the word "ALL", I never did.

Go back and read buddy!

WWWTT

On Guard for Thee · April 8, 2014

I believe that only the cabin crew are the only ones that can confirm the problem.

The cabin crew may be under the impression that their transponder is working fine. But how would they know?

As I pointed out earlier, from what I have read, the transponder is very important, so much so that there is a second back up!

And is not the only form of communication either.

As well the plane backtracked over well traversed shipping lanes and into known tracked air space.

If there was a problem, then the pilots would try to immediately safely land the plane.

But when we hear that the engine was pinging OK for up to possibly 7 hours after the tracking devise was turned off, that has to irk investigators!

WWWTT

Let me straighten you out a few technical things you seem to be confused about. One thing you are right about is that the cabin crew would know nothing about the "health" of the xponder, or whether it was turned on or turned off.

The communication the xponder does is it "talks" to radar. The pilots don't communicate via the xponder, that's what vhf, uhf, ssb radios are for. The initial turn would have headed them straight for a place called Langkawi, which has a 13,000 foot runway, and much closer than KL.

The pilots cant turn off the engine pingers, they are a totally different item than the xponder and are not primarily tracking devices.

I would also add that the black boxes from Air France 447 survived in working order in about the same depth of water. They are built for that.

WestCoastRunner · April 8, 2014

Another theory is that they took the plane around Indonesia to stay over the ocean so the passengers wouldn't be able to communicate with anyone via their cell phones. Another new theory!

WWWTT · April 8, 2014

You know, a link would be nice!

Would make things a lot more easier to follow!

Is that so hard to ask for?

WWWTT

WestCoastRunner · April 8, 2014

You know, a link would be nice!

Would make things a lot more easier to follow!

Is that so hard to ask for?

WWWTT

For crying out loud! This is a fast moving story. A lot of these theories are heard on television via experts. There may not be links.

WWWTT · April 8, 2014

Let me straighten you out a few technical things you seem to be confused about. One thing you are right about is that the cabin crew would know nothing about the "health" of the xponder, or whether it was turned on or turned off.

The communication the xponder does is it "talks" to radar. The pilots don't communicate via the xponder, that's what vhf, uhf, ssb radios are for. The initial turn would have headed them straight for a place called Langkawi, which has a 13,000 foot runway, and much closer than KL.

The pilots cant turn off the engine pingers, they are a totally different item than the xponder and are not primarily tracking devices.

I would also add that the black boxes from Air France 447 survived in working order in about the same depth of water. They are built for that.

The cabin crew wouldn't know if their transponder was turned on or off? Then how do they turn them on after take off? Here's what you wrote:

One thing you are right about is that the cabin crew would know nothing about the "health" of the xponder, or whether it was turned on or turned off.

It looks like you are putting a lot of words that I didn't write into my comments! Here's what I wrote:

And is not the only form of communication either.

So who said anything about the pilots using the transponder to communicate?

The rest of your comment is easily found on the internet and have previously read, but thanks anyways.

WWWTT

WestCoastRunner · April 8, 2014

You know, a link would be nice!

Would make things a lot more easier to follow!

Is that so hard to ask for?

WWWTT

That theory was thrown out there by Miles O'Brien, the aviation analyst on CNN. Sorry, no link is available. Sometimes there just are no links.

WWWTT · April 8, 2014

That theory was thrown out there by Miles O'Brien, the aviation analyst on CNN. Sorry, no link is available. Sometimes there just are no links.

Sometimes when I come across something to add that I feel others may be interested in, I'll write where I heard it and that I'll provide the link when it comes available. I'm interested in what you write.

I know it's frustrating hearing about something on the news and you can't follow up on it because it hasn't hit the internet yet.

You know how to add links to your comments? Have you done that before?

WWWTT

On Guard for Thee · April 8, 2014

The cabin crew wouldn't know if their transponder was turned on or off? Then how do they turn them on after take off? Here's what you wrote:

One thing you are right about is that the cabin crew would know nothing about the "health" of the xponder, or whether it was turned on or turned off.

It looks like you are putting a lot of words that I didn't write into my comments! Here's what I wrote:

And is not the only form of communication either.

So who said anything about the pilots using the transponder to communicate?

The rest of your comment is easily found on the internet and have previously read, but thanks anyways.

WWWTT

The cabin crew are the people who bring you drinks and meals and pillow etc. They don't have much to do with radios.

WestCoastRunner · April 8, 2014

Sometimes when I come across something to add that I feel others may be interested in, I'll write where I heard it and that I'll provide the link when it comes available. I'm interested in what you write.

I know it's frustrating hearing about something on the news and you can't follow up on it because it hasn't hit the internet yet.

You know how to add links to your comments? Have you done that before?

WWWTT

Of course I've added links.

WWWTT · April 8, 2014

The cabin crew are the people who bring you drinks and meals and pillow etc. They don't have much to do with radios.

Thanks for the correction, I was referring to the flight crew.

WWWTT

WWWTT · April 8, 2014

Of course I've added links.

Ok just trying to help.

WWWTT

On Guard for Thee · April 8, 2014

Thanks for the correction, I was referring to the flight crew.

WWWTT

OK, well of course the flight crew would be well aware of shutting off the squak box because it is something you would never do in flight. Except, for the occasional time they can hang up just like a computer can. In that case they would get a call from ATC asking them to recycle the xponder and you would switch it off and then back on. Doesn't often happen but it has.

guyser · April 8, 2014

But you used the word "ALL", I never did.

Go back and read buddy!

WWWTT

Here is what you said.

The relatives/family/friends of those on board, from my understanding, believe that this plane safely landed as it was designed, built and vigorously tested to do just that!

There are 239 onm board. You say friends et al of those on board, not some not a few, but those on board means all.

So, time to read eh ?

If you are going to be a dick about peoples expertise (Wilber et al) then dont cry when you are caught out.

Ok...buddy ?

overthere · April 8, 2014

I've tried to add links to my posts but those strings of sausages get grease all over the monitor.

eyeball · April 8, 2014

Some people do links around here like they were crack cocaine.

Big Guy · April 8, 2014

Are we dealing here with the "missing link"?

Wilber · April 8, 2014

Oh I can clearly see that you are just making things up as you go along here.

You don't want to talk about the fact that a planes transponder identifies the plane for other sovereign nations to identify (and probably a host of other parties that have an interest), therefore a crucial part!

WWWTT

I think you may have an exaggerated idea of what a transponder does. It doesn't identify the aircraft to anyone but the air traffic controllers who are controlling it. When the crew gets their ATC clearance, they are assigned a four digit code which they enter into the transponder. This allows air traffic control to match the return on their radar to the flight number they are controlling. Other than the aircraft's altitude, it doesn't contain or transmit any other information.

On edit: ATC may share information with other parties but it doesn't come directly from the aircraft.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Wilber

On Guard for Thee · April 8, 2014

Another theory is that they took the plane around Indonesia to stay over the ocean so the passengers wouldn't be able to communicate with anyone via their cell phones. Another new theory!

I hadn't heard that one but it does fit nicely into the conspiracy theory regima. And who knows? What I don't get in the scenarios of either hijack or the nefarious actions of the crew is what was the point? Hi jackers usually demand something, else why would they bother? If it was some sort of crew suicide they didn't have to wait 7 hours. And if you are trying to get somewhere without being detected I don't think Australia would be the best place to go. The bad news I hear today is they can't seem to reconnect with those pingers, but it is toward the end of batterie life.