Wilber Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 So you'd be in favour of the government recruiting a new crew of teachers willing to actually work? Me too! Since most or all of the faculties of education routinely crank out more graduates than jobs, it will be easy. That's one the problems. Because you don't like unions, you aren't capable of showing any respect for people who belong to them. Ideologues like you on both sides are a big part of the problem. Show no respect and you will get none in return. "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
overthere Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 That's one the problems. Because you don't like unions, you aren't capable of showing any respect for people who belong to them. Ideologues like you on both sides are a big part of the problem. Show no respect and you will get none in return. Incorrect. I recognize that unions exist for one purpose: to advance the interests of their members. Some of them, like the BCTF, are not very good at recognizing reality, even when it sits on their faces. It has nothing to do with ideology, simply a recognition of relaity. Try it, you might like it. I am a taxpayer and unlike you, recognize that the days of public sector unions bullying limp govt 'negotiators' into anything that doesn't cause a fuss are over. I am delighted that somebody is finally working to see that any deal is fair to those who have to pay for it, and not unduly weighted to suck up to organized labour at the cost of all of us.. I don't extend this delight to private sector unions. If they try to hose business, the business either folds or moves. Seems fair to both sides, wouldn't you agree? Science too hard for you? Try religion!
Wilber Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 I don't believe either side is acting in good faith. Ordinarily, government would impose a mediator with powers to recommend or binding arbitration. Trouble is, government is 50% of the problem in this case. "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Hal 9000 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 Maybe the BCTF should come out and tell people what their demands are. I just can't blindly support what i'm not being told. The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Wilber Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 Maybe the BCTF should come out and tell people what their demands are. I just can't blindly support what i'm not being told. I really don't want to hear anything from th TF or the government. There is just too much spin on anything either of them say. We need an independent voice keeping us informed. "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Hal 9000 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) I really don't want to hear anything from th TF or the government. There is just too much spin on anything either of them say. We need an independent voice keeping us informed. So, you're fine blindly supporting the teachers - even though you have zero knowledge of what they're asking? WoW! I'm sure the BCTF really appreciates that. Now, I'd like the teachers to come out and actually say "we want X amount of new teachers and a ?% raise", then I can judge wether it's fair or not - but that's me. When the asking party won't tell what they want, there's usually a pretty good reason. Edited September 2, 2014 by Hal 9000 The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Wilber Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) Where did you get the idea I am blindly supporting the teachers? I'm just not blindly supporting the government. I can't take anything either of them say at face value right now. Edited September 2, 2014 by Wilber "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Hal 9000 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 Where did you get the idea I am blindly supporting the teachers? I'm just not blindly supporting the government. I can't take anything either of them say at face value right now. Fair enough. You're apparent dislike for the government's handling led me to believe you were on the teachers side. The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
sharkman Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) It is certainly no secret that the government has committed to using the money not spent on the whiny teachers to fund the $40/day for parents. This information is pretty readily available, so it does make me wonder just how much effort you are making to stay educated about this strike. it doesn't matter what they commit to. This is the government that committed to not initially introducing the HST, and then brought it in. It matters what they CAN do. Global News just reported that the Liberal government will not be paying out the $40/day until 30 days after the strike is over. Now, I dearly wish the pathetic media would frickin' report the rest of the story, for instance WHY they are reporting this. But aside from that, the government will not be cutting cheques to the parents for at least a month, now why do you suppose that is? And if you don't mind, why not cut out the sarcasm and snide attitude, surely we all can argue about this without getting personal? Edit: Actually, I take that back, you're one of the less sarcastic ones! Edited September 2, 2014 by sharkman
Wilber Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 Fair enough. You're apparent dislike for the government's handling led me to believe you were on the teachers side. I don't like the way the government is handling it but that doesn't mean I unconditionally back the teachers. "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Hal 9000 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 it doesn't matter what they commit to. This is the government that committed to not initially introducing the HST, and then brought it in. It matters what they CAN do. Global News just reported that the Liberal government will not be paying out the $40/day until 30 days after the strike is over. Now, I dearly wish the pathetic media would frickin' report the rest of the story, for instance WHY they are reporting this. But aside from that, the government will not be cutting cheques to the parents for at least a month, now why do you suppose that is? And if you don't mind, why not cut out the sarcasm and snide attitude, surely we all can argue about this without getting personal? Same reason you don't get a pay check at the end of every work day - I assume. The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Hal 9000 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 I don't like the way the government is handling it but that doesn't mean I unconditionally back the teachers. I guess i'm just getting used to responding to Socialist. The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
sharkman Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 Is that a trick question, or just a lack of familiarity with basic economic concepts? There is no significant revenue associated with the strike. The government expenses will drop, but there is no extra money coming in. hth So did you realize that in BC you need 5 years of education, not 4 as you thought? Other than that, the BC government last June locked out the teachers(not the traditional lock out) and cut 10% of the teacher's wages. Next, they saved more money since summer school was cancelled as well as on line courses. This all adds up to a significant amount of revenue that you seem unaware of. But, that will pale in comparison to the amount the BC government will save when school does not start. They will not be sending the teacher salary component of the revenue amounts to school districts, and the amount will be enormous as it adds up. I'm not sure where you are getting your info, but it seems inaccurate.
Hal 9000 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 So did you realize that in BC you need 5 years of education, not 4 as you thought? Other than that, the BC government last June locked out the teachers(not the traditional lock out) and cut 10% of the teacher's wages. Next, they saved more money since summer school was cancelled as well as on line courses. This all adds up to a significant amount of revenue that you seem unaware of. But, that will pale in comparison to the amount the BC government will save when school does not start. They will not be sending the teacher salary component of the revenue amounts to school districts, and the amount will be enormous as it adds up. I'm not sure where you are getting your info, but it seems inaccurate. How did that happen? The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
sharkman Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 How did that happen? I'm not 100% sure of the specifics, but my wife had 10% taken off her day's wages a few days in May and about ten days in June, before they went on strike. This was because part of their labour action while working was to not communicate with administration. The BC government decided that they'd hit them in the pocket book for this. Of course, they were partly"locked out" while working during some of this time. This meant they taught all day, but had to leave the premises by one hour after school was out for the day. Sound complicated and petty? just a little.
Pct2017 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 So did you realize that in BC you need 5 years of education, not 4 as you thought? Other than that, the BC government last June locked out the teachers(not the traditional lock out) and cut 10% of the teacher's wages. Next, they saved more money since summer school was cancelled as well as on line courses. This all adds up to a significant amount of revenue that you seem unaware of. But, that will pale in comparison to the amount the BC government will save when school does not start. They will not be sending the teacher salary component of the revenue amounts to school districts, and the amount will be enormous as it adds up. I'm not sure where you are getting your info, but it seems inaccurate. Jeez Louise, you ask me to stop being sarcastic towards you, and then you turn around and ask exactly the same question that I clearly answered for you previously. I will use some small, fairly easy to understand words so that you can grasp it this time. The money that the government does not spend on teachers salaries ( please note that this is reduced expenses, not a source of revenue, but I am afraid that May be getting a bit deep for you) amounts to about $12 million per day. There are about 300,000 kids in BC schools who are under the age of 13. Now, here is where you are going to have to really concentrate. Divide $12 million by 300,000 kids and you get - drumroll please - $40/kid. So, no, the government is not pocketing the savings (again, note that this is not revenue), rather they are passing it onto the taxpayers who are most directly affected by your teacher heroes. Yeah, I know, more sarcasm and lack of respect. Guess I was never cut out to be a teacher, thank God.
Hal 9000 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) I'm not 100% sure of the specifics, but my wife had 10% taken off her day's wages a few days in May and about ten days in June, before they went on strike. This was because part of their labour action while working was to not communicate with administration. The BC government decided that they'd hit them in the pocket book for this. Of course, they were partly"locked out" while working during some of this time. This meant they taught all day, but had to leave the premises by one hour after school was out for the day. Sound complicated and petty? just a little. No, it was because the teachers refused to supervise kids on the playgrounds and during lunch/recess. The schools had to have the administrators and staff (CUPE) do it. But, I'm sure you knew that! Edited September 2, 2014 by Hal 9000 The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Pct2017 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) I'm not 100% sure of the specifics, but my wife had 10% taken off her day's wages a few days in May and about ten days in June, before they went on strike. This was because part of their labour action while working was to not communicate with administration. The BC government decided that they'd hit them in the pocket book for this. Of course, they were partly"locked out" while working during some of this time. This meant they taught all day, but had to leave the premises by one hour after school was out for the day. Sound complicated and petty? just a little. Please take the time to do a bit of research. Look up what the BCTF told their members they could and could not do when they launched their Level One job action back in early May. Then read the terms of the government's subsequent lock out at the end of May. If you can see any differences, please get back to me. No, my good friend, the teachers had already launched into not helping students out of school hours before the lockout. All the lockout did was allow the employer (you and me, by the way) to dock their pay by 5% which was later escalated to 10% when they started rotating strikes. This should have sent a clear message to the whiny teachers that for the first time ever, the duly elected representatives of the taxpayers of British Columbia were not going to be patsies. But, alas, this eluded the teachers and here we are today. As for the idea of binding arbitration, never going to happen. We elected the government to make some difficult decisions, not to pass authority off to third parties when the going gets a bit tough. Edited September 2, 2014 by Pct2017
sharkman Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 No, it was because the teachers refused to supervise kids on the playgrounds and during lunch/recess. The schools had to have the administrators and staff (CUPE) do it. But, I'm sure you knew that! Well that's not how my wife tells it, I'm sure there was a lot of confusion last June.
Hal 9000 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 Well that's not how my wife tells it, I'm sure there was a lot of confusion last June. Maybe you should ask her again. The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
sharkman Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 Jeez Louise, you ask me to stop being sarcastic towards you, and then you turn around and ask exactly the same question that I clearly answered for you previously. I will use some small, fairly easy to understand words so that you can grasp it this time. The money that the government does not spend on teachers salaries ( please note that this is reduced expenses, not a source of revenue, but I am afraid that May be getting a bit deep for you) amounts to about $12 million per day. There are about 300,000 kids in BC schools who are under the age of 13. Now, here is where you are going to have to really concentrate. Divide $12 million by 300,000 kids and you get - drumroll please - $40/kid. So, no, the government is not pocketing the savings (again, note that this is not revenue), rather they are passing it onto the taxpayers who are most directly affected by your teacher heroes. Yeah, I know, more sarcasm and lack of respect. Guess I was never cut out to be a teacher, thank God. Okay, I had edited my earlier post regarding asking you not to be sarcastic, since I reread some of the thread and saw that you were certainly not the worst offender. I called you one of the less sarcastic ones. But then you do this post above. Apparently being civil is beyond you, okay then. I've been mostly ignoring your posts so I may have missed whatever it is you are talking about here. Sometimes it's best to trust your gut.
sharkman Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 Maybe you should ask her again. So if you already had a theory regarding the 10%, why did you ask me?
Pct2017 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 Well that's not how my wife tells it, I'm sure there was a lot of confusion last June. Here, share this with her. Maybe it will jog her memory. http://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-teachers-dispute-cheat-sheet-1.1835717
Hal 9000 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 So if you already had a theory regarding the 10%, why did you ask me? To see if you knew - obviously! And...now you know! The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Bob Macadoo Posted September 2, 2014 Report Posted September 2, 2014 No, my good friend, the teachers had already launched into not helping students out of school hours before the lockout. All the lockout did was allow the employer (you and me, by the way) to dock their pay by 5% which was later escalated to 10% when they started rotating strikes.I take it afterschool help, coaching and monitoring are defined duties in the contract in order to dock pay for inactivity.Lack of these duties for a prolonged period really only hurts the poor kids, and who cares about them right...the middle+ class, have their soccer moms to take care of that stuff for l'il Xavier and Porsche.
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