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cybercoma

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I can usually find the limits to someone's support of an ideology by tripping them up with implied moralisms (whether they are mine or not) ... that just doesn't work with you.

That's because ideology and "moralisms" really don't matter. Reality doesn't care how we describe it...it just is. I chose the more positive Doris Day tune as a vehicle to communicate a general laissez faire, but it could have just as well been the far more cynical Peggy Lee's (Is That All There Is). Your reaction to dear old Doris was unexpected...but priceless !

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I chose the more positive Doris Day tune as a vehicle to communicate a general laissez faire, but it could have just as well been the far more cynical Peggy Lee's (Is That All There Is). Your reaction to dear old Doris was unexpected...but priceless !

And your decision to use such an icon of 50s morality in a nest of arguments that never touches on morality equally priceless. This sparring would indeed be a chess match between masters, if you and I didn't happen to consider the opponent an idiot. :)

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I don't dwell too long on the obvious...this...I leave to you.

Lets see how long you stick to your guns on that one.

Either we have property rights or we don't, and that includes "patent trolls". If you insist on injecting your version of what is fair or "abuse" then there will be disagreement.

Ok then, you went 1hr 28 minutes.

But that's the twist....it never was and never will be...50's or now. Still arguing about "rich people"...I guess it never gets old.

The thread is about how ironic that our world has become too top heavy.(or is my interpretation)

You still have made no argument to support how (if possible) such an arrangement is sustainable.

Very weak debating style in my opinion.

WWWTT

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The thread is about how ironic that our world has become too top heavy.(or is my interpretation)

You still have made no argument to support how (if possible) such an arrangement is sustainable.

Very weak debating style in my opinion.

I don't care if it's "sustainable" or not, and there is no debate. "Rich people" will always be thus whether you like it or not. I am sure that Bill Gates is worried about your opinion of his net worth. [/sarcasm]

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I don't care if it's "sustainable" or not, and there is no debate. "Rich people" will always be thus whether you like it or not. I am sure that Bill Gates is worried about your opinion of his net worth. [/sarcasm]

Sorry but there is a debate. If you choose to not make any contribution then what is your point? To only vent your frustration?

And the debate is not about rich people, the debate is about the incredibly grotesque amount that they are rich by.

Seeing how much Bill Gates contributes to charities is proof that he is concerned about his image. No sarcasm needed!

WWWTT

Edited by WWWTT
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I believe that this is an arrogant statement and has no merit. Can you provide a link to support it?

Vast majority is a bold claim!

WWWTT

Have you ever been to to a very poor country?

I've been to many at the very bottom of every economic metric. Chad, Mauritania, Afghanistan, Mali, Senegal, Niger and many others. The comaprison of the poor in Canada and the poor in these places is an insulting joke to both.

Here is the difference. In very poor places, there is no social safety net.

That means your children don't attend school.

It means that if you get sick, you die.

It means if you have no money for food, you die.

There is very little work for pay.

If the weather is bad and crops are poor, many will die.

It means there is no rule of law, no personal security, and nobody who gives a single shit about you except family.

And they are very likely to be in the very same leaking boat.

Life is brutal beyond words in those places.

i don't mean to diminish the difficulty and hardship suffered by the poor in Canada, but sincerely it is not the same at all.

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Have you ever been to to a very poor country?

I've been to many at the very bottom of every economic metric. Chad, Mauritania, Afghanistan, Mali, Senegal, Niger and many others. The comaprison of the poor in Canada and the poor in these places is an insulting joke to both.

Here is the difference. In very poor places, there is no social safety net.

That means your children don't attend school.

It means that if you get sick, you die.

It means if you have no money for food, you die.

There is very little work for pay.

If the weather is bad and crops are poor, many will die.

It means there is no rule of law, no personal security, and nobody who gives a single shit about you except family.

And they are very likely to be in the very same leaking boat.

Life is brutal beyond words in those places.

i don't mean to diminish the difficulty and hardship suffered by the poor in Canada, but sincerely it is not the same at all.

Go back and read the quote I was commenting.

Key words/phrases are vast majority and standard of living.

I did not write that there are people who suffer from a lower standard of living.

WWWTT

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Go back and read the quote I was commenting.

Key words/phrases are vast majority and standard of living.

I did not write that there are people who suffer from a lower standard of living.

WWWTT

Part of the claim is that these countries are being brought out of the 'poor' classification through western outsourced industrialization. Bangladesh should be wealthy considering the amount of clothing they produce for a very small fraction of what you pay for the item. No?

What we classify as poor here in the west is like luxury compared to what the poor class is in places like Niger. So the term cannot be evenly applied. We have poor, they have something just beyond destitution.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Another of these articles pleading with millennials to start spending to stimulate the economy.

Guys! We're sorry! You're not lazy, you're frugal! Ok? No hard feelings? We're good now, right? Please stop saving cash and paying down your debts. Please start buying houses, and stocks, and cars! If you guys don't get busy buying, our houses and our stock portfolios will loose value! Come on, kids! Do it for your country!

-k

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Doesn't matter what the Millennials do as long at the current demographic trend continues for the much larger Boomer generation, which is retiring and spending less. This will continue well past 2019, when the "echo boomers" will start consuming more homes, goods, and services. As a boomer with plenty of disposable income, I started running out of crap to buy years ago.

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The Baby Boomer generation isn't "much larger", and the refusal of younger adults to repeat the spending habits of their parents is impacting the economy right now. And what makes you think "the echo boomers" are going to be any different? They'll have the same sucky economy and the same ridiculous student debts when they start entering the workforce.

-k

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But it is larger and has far more disposable income in a 45 year consumer life cycle. Health care spending will increase, but not home or car purchases.

We will pay Millennials to change our diapers !

Yes, the the bottom of the barrel ones at least. The finest care you can get for $9 an hour! Lifespans are increasing, your houses and stocks and bonds and nest-eggs aren't going to last forever, and by and large your kids aren't going to look after you. These are the realities that have Tim G talking about Soylent Green type solutions to elder care in the other thread.

Personally, I vote for a Hunger Games style tournament for old-people, or perhaps they could be fed to the lions at Danish zoos.

-k

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Yes, the the bottom of the barrel ones at least. The finest care you can get for $9 an hour! Lifespans are increasing, your houses and stocks and bonds and nest-eggs aren't going to last forever, and by and large your kids aren't going to look after you.

Assets don't have to last forever, as minimum income levels will be provided by taxing the Millennials. Millennials need to learn how to look after themselves before thinking about taking care of aging boomers. I predict that more lazy Millennials will kill their aging parents to get at their assets.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Part of the claim is that these countries are being brought out of the 'poor' classification through western outsourced industrialization. Bangladesh should be wealthy considering the amount of clothing they produce for a very small fraction of what you pay for the item. No?

What we classify as poor here in the west is like luxury compared to what the poor class is in places like Niger. So the term cannot be evenly applied. We have poor, they have something just beyond destitution.

I agree with you, but this has turned into a minor technical/trivial debate now.

I was also disputing the claim that the poor in Canada have it better than most of the rest of the world.

I made no claim that there are no people in despair conditions!

WWWTT

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wealth is never earned - it is stolen from those who do the work, everywhere and always.

In a manufacturing and production economy, sure. But this doesn't hold true for the self-employed creators of goods and art. Although you could argue that the materials that the use for inputs at some point come from the manufacturing and production economy, so your statement in their cases is indirectly true.
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I would take issue with the word "stolen" though. Those who invent, create and take risks deserve a larger slice of the pie than a labourer. However, those one percent that continue to advocate for more personal advantages at the expense of society are sawing off the branch they're standing on.

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So how have the riches people gotten that way.....well some have inherited and more are going to do just, that, some gambled with the stock market, especially between the years 1950-1990's when many went on to become billionaires, then there's the gas and oil barons, the gold investors, the inventors of the tech. world. Now, some hide their money away off-shore and today in Canada, there's over 1.7 billion hidden away to evade taxes and much of that money is from corporations and the only way the regular joe can become rich is win a lottery.

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Any fool can get rich by gambling with other people's money, which the already-rich can do easily. If they lose, they are no worse off, and can instead spend their time using their media telling us that anyone can be rich. Poor education (they won't pay for better) allows them to get away with this, while the mugs applaud.

Edited by iolo
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