PM Harper Shows Canadian Loyalty to Israel

[Hudson Jones]

In all the ME there is 1.6 million arabs that have freedom of religion and sexual preference, and guess what they all love in Israel. Hudson you are actually backing the side of dictators and plain evil people. The thing you don't get is ,if Israel disappeared over nite their arab neighbours would be moving in, there will be no palistine country. Time to take off the blinders of hate and get with the facts.

I can criticize Israel for their policies without being an anti-semite or a supporter of dictators and war criminals. It doesn't matter what Bibi, Harper or you say, it doesn't change the fact that it's okay to speak out against Israeli policies that are wrong.

Your comments are ignorant and a fallacy that you and other Israeli apologists keep repeating. They don't add up.

[eyeball]

Governor Sarah Palin has some positive strokes for her good neighbours.

Well, 38% or so of us anyway. The rest are either cringing or laughing at the sorts of wing-nuts our dear leader seems to attract.

[DogOnPorch]

...and the rest wish to cave to the demands of fascists and terrorists. Or engage in relativism where it's OK for a leader like Abbas to 'have his own opinion' that the Holocaust is a lie. Or the whole f-ing concept of 'Palestinians' which was dreamed-up by an SS man that managed to escape the noose by hiding under a burka.

Nope...the mob is simply wrong. I do note their pitchforks and torches...but this is common for any mob.

[GostHacked]

Thread hijacking...off topic.

No matter if you like it or not, his statement is exactly ON topic.

[Remiel]

Harper's love of Israel is all fine and well but to pretend that being a friend of Israel is a sufficient condition to be a dutiful prime minister of Canada is to exhibit willful blindness. One need only observe Question Period to determine that his principles obviously do not include telling the truth or taking responsibility for mistakes and misdeeds. And if your principles do not executing such important duties as those of a head of government truthfully that is, on other hand, a sufficient condition for determining that you are not a principled person.

[On Guard for Thee]

Harper is the prime minister and leader of the ruling party in Canada. Somebody voted for the Tories more than they voted for different choices. So this is Canada supporting Israel in a very clear and direct manner. That he would do so in the Middle East and be the first to address the Knesset means he is all in.

Your first statement is of course totally redundant. Second statement, 39% of Canadians voted for Tories. Third statement, this is Harper not having the brain or the brawn to express what is actually Canada's national policy. He was neither direct, nor clear. Fourth statement, whatever he is "all in" to is not too clear at all. Friends of Israel, of course we are.

[bush_cheney2004]

Your first statement is of course totally redundant. Second statement, 39% of Canadians voted for Tories. Third statement, this is Harper not having the brain or the brawn to express what is actually Canada's national policy. He was neither direct, nor clear. Fourth statement, whatever he is "all in" to is not too clear at all. Friends of Israel, of course we are.

He was very direct and very clear, just as he has been all along:

[Rue]

The attempt to switch focus on this thread by H Jones to suggest Harper supports the torture of children by anyone let alone Israel speaks for itself, At no time has Harper ever condoned or supported anyone torturing children and for H Jones to suggest this is patently false.

Israel does not and never has a state policy that allows it to torture children. To suggest that in this thread is an attempt to deflect away from the discussion as to the fact that Harper has established very close ties with and incite people to demonize Israelis as child torturers and anyone who supports Israel as a child torturer.

That tactic of name calling and inciting hatred and demonizing Israel supporters speaks for itself.

I would contend it is precisely because Harper is trusted by Israel, he can when the doors are closed, put more pressure on Netanyahu as to certain issues far better than people like Obama and Kerry who grand stand in public at the expense of Israel to make themselves look good to Iran.

I find it absurd people try suggest Harper is bias against Palestinians when he has once again approved spending on aid to Palestinians.

Harper's stand on terrorism does not make him anti Palestinian.

Stating terrorism prevents peace from coming about is not anti Palestinian.

The fact is Harper is one of the few leaders of the world who will speak out on terrorism and how it is an obstacle to peace. Unlike some on this forum he does not ignore the terrorists and what impact they have on any conflict zone not just the West Bank.

Harper stated yesterday that it is unreasonable to try suggest the West Bank conflict is the only one in the Middle East when there are so many others and instability is rampant throughout the Arab world. does that make him anti Palestinian or just stating a fact?

What we just ignore Syria, Iraq, the instability with the Kurds, the continued mistreatment of Coptic Christians or Sudanese Christians, the on-going war between Shiites and Sunnis? What that all should be ignored?

What the entire Middle East comes down to simply depicting Israel as evil? Is that how it works? Well yes for some on this forum.

Bottom line is-Harper is on record not once but many times stating he feels continued expansion on the West Bank is problematic. He has never supported or given a green light for unlimited expansion. What he has stated however, is he will have such discussions behind closed doors not in public like Kerry who gave a green light for another infifada by telling the world if Israel does not withdraw to the 1967 borders there will be another intifadah which has to be in my opinion the most cowardly rhetoric I have heard in years.

To grandstand and say that in public shows just how weak and pathetic Kerry is. If he thought that won over Iran he was dead wrong. It showed he was cow-towing to violence precisely the message that turned Egypt and Saudi Arabia to turn on the US and suck up to Putin,

I will say it again. When discussing the West Bank its fair to criticize Israeli settlements. It is part of the dialogue. However to remain silent on terrorism and state a peace solution can come about with terrorists remaining on the West Bank dedicated to destroying Israel is illogical

It is also illogical for anyone to think Israel would withdraw to borders that would expose its most vulnerable populations to terrorist attacks. That will not happen.

What will NOT happen is any peace solution as long as terrorists refuse to disarm as they did in Northern Ireland before peace talks could come about.

The same Kerry who demands Israel simply withdraw to 1967 borders, not too long ago stated the United Kingdom could never talk peace until the IRA disbanded and denounced terrorism. Interesting how that works. One standard for the UK and one for Israel.

I will also repeat this again. It is a joke, an absolute joke to pretend that the only reason there is no peace in the Middle East is because Israel will not withdraw to the 1967 borders. What a crock.

When Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza, when the supposed monster Gen. Sharon yanked out with brutal force Jewish settlers, what happened?The day Israel withdrew it was attacked.

What a crock to tell it to unilaterally withdraw again.

What a crock to say to Israel withdraw unilaterally while terrorists remain armed on the West Bank dedicated to killing your civilians.

What a crock to dictate to Israel, they should agree to withdraw to a state of vulnerability let alone even negotiate with Abbas.

Abbas? Just who is he? This is a man on record just last week who stated again, he will never ever recognize the right of Jews to have an Jewish state in Israel. How do you negotiate with that position? This is a man who not only repeats the above but states, the only way he will recognize Israel is if it stops being a Jewish state and takes in ANYONE who claims to be Palestinian, and Mr. Abbas's definition of a Palestinian is ANYONE who claims to be Palestinian as long as they are not Jews.

The real issue-there is no one to negotiate with and all Harper has said is recognize Israel as a Jewish state and disarm terrorists and then you can get the peace you want with them. He is saying nothing more than the UK said to the IRA before peace talks arose.

Only on this forum do you have people who believe it is reasonable to negotiate with someone who says they don't believe in your right to exist.

Only on this forum are Jews as a group selected out as unreasonable when they choose to exist as a collective. No other ethnic group has been singled out. None. Arabs can have sharia law states, the Vatican a Catholic State, the Anglicans a British state, but Jews? Over 150 nations have laws of return fast tracking certain peoples for citizenship and not a peep, Israel does it, its suddenly racist.

Israel is an apartheid nation and yet non Jews are treated in the exact same hospitals as Jews, vote, own land, run businesses and enjoy the highest lifestyle of any Muslim or Christian in the Middle East-next door in the Sharia law nations-dhimmitude and not a peep-not a pee as to how Sharia law and dhimmitude are in fact enshrined apartheid laws that define non Muslims as inferiors to live in segregated communities-not a peep.

Now this claim that Harper supports child torture and Israel supports child torture? That is what this thread is about?

Right as is every thread that has the word Israel in it, just throw in some bold faced unsubstantiated accusation that demonizes Jews and Israelis. That's right Jews torture children. We created a collective so we could torture children.

This constant accusation of Israelis and Jews as being demons is just recycled stereotypes of hatred only today we couch it as a reference to Zionist Jews. We make sure to put Zionist in front of the word Jew to make it politically acceptable.

I challenge anyone who accuses Israelis of torturing children to put up or shut up.

To exploit children to engage in anti Israel bashing in this thread is in my opinion a cheap attempt at inciting hatred by demonizing Israels and in fact anyone who supports Israel's right to exist.

I say take such stereotypes, take such attempts to inflame and incite people to hate anyone who supports Israel and stuff them back into the garbage recepticals where they belong.

Dialogue for peace will not come about when people use the name of children and raise unsubstantiated accusations of child torture to try reduce the equation to demons v,s, children.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Rue

[Boges]

I see a lot of selective outrage. If Stephen Harper supports child torture then supports of Palestine support firing rockets at civilians and people blowing themselves up in public areas.

People are upset because one of the 200+ delegation has anti-gay views. Yet few Israeli activists give Israel credit for being the only Middle Eastern state that is welcoming of homosexuals?

[jbg]

Prime Minister Stephen Harper is the first Canadian PM to address the Knesset, expressing staunch Canadian support and loyalty for Israel:

*************

How will this play in Canada...now...and at election time in 2015 ?

Should Israel become a Canadian province ?

At last a politician not afraid to express courage in his convictions. As for the election I doubt it will help much. From what I understand most Canadian Jews are stuffed into a few ridings that always vote Liberal.

[Hudson Jones]

I see a lot of selective outrage. If Stephen Harper supports child torture then supports of Palestine support firing rockets at civilians and people blowing themselves up in public areas.

No one said Harper "supports" child torture. What I said was that Harper has failed to condemn Israel time and time again for violating international law. One of those being, child torture.

Harper pretends that Israel is a model nation and it's on par with what Canada stands for morally, 'today'. When in fact, Israel continues to violate international human rights laws on a daily basis. Why has Harper not talked about the Jewish settlements on Palestinian territory? Why has Harper not talked about the demolishing of Palestinian homes on Palestinian land by Israel? Why has Harper not talked about and condemn child torture by Israel?

When these Israeli violations are brought up, one of the saddest displays of Zionist apologists is when they somehow try to equate their actions to Canada, by bringing up what Canada did 100 years ago. Like their treatment of children at reservation schools. This is how desperately sad this unconditional love has taken some of these people.

[bush_cheney2004]

...When these Israeli violations are brought up, one of the saddest displays of Zionist apologists is when they somehow try to equate their actions to Canada, by bringing up what Canada did 100 years ago. Like their treatment of children at reservation schools. This is how desperately sad this unconditional love has taken some of these people.

So you approve of more recent "adult torture" facilitated by Canada instead, but wish to hold Israel to a higher standard.

[DogOnPorch]

So you approve of more recent "adult torture" facilitated by Canada instead, but wish to hold Israel to a higher standard.

Yes...I've always wondered what the cut-off year was for these sorts of things.

[WWWTT]

HOW MUCH IS THIS CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL FUNDRAISING JUNKET COSTING US TAXPAYERS?!?!?

.

This would make the most sense and I give it the greatest merit in explaining the huge group the PM brought on the tax payers dime!

It fits the political sub culture and Harpers goals.

We've seen this with the senate scandal and Rob Ford's BBQ.

Harper falling off the wagon!

WWWTT

[On Guard for Thee]

He was very direct and very clear, just as he has been all along:

If you call that clear then you must have a totally diferent definition of the word than most people do. He ducked totally the fact of Canada's national policy with regard to the west bank. He just mumbo jumboed in typical Harper fashion. Tune into question period some time and listen to him talk about "I have been very clear about" and then drift away as the rest of the house erupts into laughter.

[eyeball]

Yes...I've always wondered what the cut-off year was for these sorts of things.

What the heck are you two "talking about"?

[On Guard for Thee]

Governor Sarah Palin has some positive strokes for her good neighbours:

Former Alaska governor and vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin is heaping praise on Prime Minister Stephen Harper for his "exemplary" support of Israel and scolding the media for not paying more attention.

Palin, whose public comments on various issues often attract attention, wrote a message on her Facebook page that linked to an article on the website of Breaking Christian News about Harper's visit to Israel and his support for the country since he became prime minister in 2006.

"Thank you to our good neighbours led by Prime Minister Stephen Harper for their exemplary support of our friend Israel," she wrote. "As significant and dangerous progress is made by Iran no doubt wanting nukes, and with the continued threats against Israel by radicals in the region, Canada's steadfastness is praiseworthy."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/sarah-palin-is-a-fan-of-stephen-harper-s-israel-support-1.2506301

Ha ha ha, you're quoting Pallin? That's great. Can she see Israel from her window like she can Russia?

?

Edited January 24, 2014 by On Guard for Thee

[On Guard for Thee]

Ha ha ha, you're quoting Pallin? That's great. Can she see Israel from her window like she can Russia?

?

[DogOnPorch]

What the heck are you two "talking about"?

One hundred years is too much but forty-seven years is OK. There must be a line in there somewhere. It can't be sixty-eight years so it must be somewhat beyond that but after the year 1914...or whatever year your ancestors arrived and 'stole' land.

[eyeball]

Ah right, the old how far back into history do we project our present politics.

It's funny how people who tell natives it's high time they get over the loss of their land a few hundred years ago expect the world to do back-flips to accommodate the 3 - 4 thousand year old land claim of the Zionists.

[GostHacked]

Ah right, the old how far back into history do we project our present politics.

It's funny how people who tell natives it's high time they get over the loss of their land a few hundred years ago expect the world to do back-flips to accommodate the 3 - 4 thousand year old land claim of the Zionists.

That' a good point.

[GostHacked]

Harper has shown his support and throw the nation under the bus.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/government-flooded-with-angry-letters-over-position-on-palestinian-bid-for-statehood-1.1653167

OTTAWA -- The Harper government was flooded with angry letters from Canadians after it opposed the Palestinian bid for statehood at the United Nations, newly disclosed documents show.

More than 1,000 letters arrived over several weeks in late 2012 and early 2013 at the offices of Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird and several other Conservative MPs, the vast majority of them complaining that the government was not representing the balanced and fair-minded views of Canadian citizens on the divisive Middle East issue.

More than 80 per cent of the correspondence expressed clear opposition to the Conservative government's own vocal attempts to block the Palestinian bid for greater recognition at the UN.

That is not helping this peace process at all.

[Rue]

You are right. The Jewish vote is condensed. Its not spread into many ridings. Population wise it is too small to make a difference to any one party.

In the years up until Brian Mulroney, the Progressive Conservative party as it was then called was a bastion for the so called white protestant Canadians.

If you were a minority or for that matter Catholic, you were more likely to vote Liberal on the federal level.

Then Mulroney blew that formula up and went out and recruited minorities and French Catholics. Because he was an Irish Catholic, in effect a minority, he realized for the Conservatives to get elected they needed a broader base of support and then that old formula of the Liberals being the party of the "other" Canadians changed.

Today minorities vote for pretty much all three parties. Take for example where I live in Toronto. The largest population where I live are Siekhs. They will place members of their community as candidates in all 3 parties. So they get Tories, Liberals and NDP elected.

At the provincial level it gets much more complicated. in Prince Edward Island the smallest province, people vote Conservative or Liberal at the provincial level based on Protestant v. Catholic identity. But you go next door to Newfoundland where pretty much everyone is Irish Catholic, the Liberal Conservative voting provincial or federal is a complicated one based on which patronage system you originally bought into.

In New Brunswick traditionally the Acadiens voted Liberal and the English Conservative, and Catholics more likely to vote Liberal than Conservative but even that changed and say Premier Hadfield who was a long standing Conservative Premier won over many Liberals because of his progressive views.

Jews like all minorities heavily voted for Trudeau. Trudeau had this ability to make all minorities feel proud of themselves by concentrating on a message that what makes people is their brains and contributions. He could walk into any ethnic community and win people over by appealing to their intellects and positive achievements. Mulroney was a real Irishman-he could make anyone feel at home with his stories-a typical Irish story telling affiable guy. Cross him he'd punch yer face, laugh with him and he would remember you forever as a friend and able to step back and forth from French to English as good as Trudeau or Laurier.

A real labour lawyer kind of guy who could switch from elite Wasp business man to blue collar nobody or ethnic minority in a second. Chretien always struggled. French Canada hated him because they perceived him as making fun of the French language and cultuheir redneckre to the English.

Harper. Well he is completely inoffensive He is bland. He just does not put on airs. As much as people are tryng in this thread to portray him as a rabid Zionist he is far from it. He has been to many Mosques and reacts no differently than he does in synagogues or churches. People like Harper are genuine with their blandness. They have no ethnic agenda. Albertans like him even when they come from Ontario originally like him, they get and its hard to describe into a head space where they really do not fret over ethnicity.

Alberta had a Jewish Premier, no one could care less he was. Calgary has a Muslim Mayor. Albertans don't size you up that way. They size you up as to whether you are going to steal their oil and gas. Its hard to explain but their redneck politics is about a distrust of federalism not ethnic lines. Its why even the Reform Party attracted minorities. Of course I am generalizing for the sake of discussion.

Generally though you are right. Jews traditionally voted Liberal in the past because of Trudeau. He was elected in the riding of Mount Royal, the riding I was born in and a traditionally English Wasp-Jew enclave. You could have dropped any Liberal in that riding and its provincial equivalent D'Arcy McGee was the same thing. In Quebec English always voted Liberal provincially and federally. Jews did like Trudeau but before and after him, like all other English speaking minorities, they voted Liberal even afterl Mulroney on the federal scene suddenly won over the French vote while English still kept voting Liberal. Montreal traditionally votes Liberal,English or French.

Today? I am not sure what Justin Trudeau is up to. His advisor on the Middle East is openly anti Israel and tries to play to Muslim extremists and the anti Zionist vote.

Trudeau did show up at a meeting fill of Muslim extremists. I think quit frankly he is an idiot the same way he recently praised China for being a role model state for the environment. I think he is a naïve idiot. Who knows what he really thinks

lThe problem though is, contrary to popular myth Muslim Canadians like Jewish Canadians don't vote like sheep. Carolyn Parrish in a riding near where I live now tried to court a high Palestinian Canadian population in her ridings' vote by saying many things inflammatory about Israel and the US and these same people did NOT vote her in. They in fact resented her thinking they could be so easily manipulated by throwing out some hateful words and openly called her a hateful cow.

Same with we Jewish Canadians. We are pretty much no different than Muslim Canadians or Irish or anyone else. We are not manipulated by hate messages. Its not a Canadian trait in politics. It doesn't work. The Parti Quebecois in Quebec is now trying that hate message out thinking it will get them a majority vote. I am not sure it will work.

What I can tell you is we Jews who support Israel also expect Harpr to play a role in brokering peace with Palestinians. The Canadian in us wants a fair solution. We hate terrorism but we do not hate Palestinians and we cherish Canada's role in the past as an honest peacemaker in the Middle East. The Canadian troops that served as peacekeepers in Israel are still remembered by both Arabs and Jews in the Middle East as fair and well trained soldiers.

I live with Muslims. I work with Muslims.Like me we cherish the fact in Canada we have space, freedom and can live in peace. We want that for both peoples. To say we only vote for a politician who hates the other side is dumb. Because we are both minority Canadians we cherish the British parliamentary system that gives us a way of life our ancestors dreamed of. That may sound corny but its true. We appreciate our fortune called peace given to us by Canada and we want to share it yes but to label us as hate mongers no. If we support Harper its because he is calm about a tough conflict and will not call either of us names.

By the way in the last provincial election the member of provincial parliament in what was traditionally a liberal riding was a conservative and Jewish and Peter Shurman was his name, has now resigned from that party and I can tell you Jewish voters in the so called Jewish ridings of Toronto in the provincial election will not all vote en masse Liberal. There is sizeable concern about the current provincial Liberal government's corruption and debts that transcends ethnic lines.

I think Harper with due respect is seen as a completely bland neutral guy who simply says what he thinks about terrorism. I think it is a misrepresentation to say he is anti Palestinian.

He has repeatedly stated there needs to be a two state solution and continued expansion is problematic. I think what annoys the usual anti Israels on this forum is he won't ignore the fact Abbas refuses to recognize a Jewish state nor does he ignore terrorism as an obstacle to peace. That does not make him anti Palestinian.

Lol as for me I suppose I am a Kennedy Democrat which in Canada is a Red Tory Blue Liberal kind of left on social policies, right on the economy but pretty much smack in the Middle.

I vote extreme middle like most Canadians. Harper regardless of what anyone says is smack dab in the middle-he moved there just as Chretiens, Mulroney and every other Canadian politician does. We are by nature smack on the fence on everything. We live with that so called fence up our butt.No problem.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Rue

[DogOnPorch]

Meanwhile, UNESCO has cancelled an exhibition of Jewish history in the Levant in fear of upsetting the "peace process". Two guesses as to who complained...the first guess doesn't count.

:lol:

[bud]

So you approve of more recent "adult torture" facilitated by Canada instead, but wish to hold Israel to a higher standard.

do you support torture of children by the israelis?

Edited January 24, 2014 by bud