Army Guy Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 If you're referring to Maher Arar suing the govt, he was not a terrorist. A lot of Canadian minors left in Gitmo for years? Don't think so. If Khadr sues and wins anything, it won't be for injuries in combat, but because our government failed in its duty to protect him as a minor, after he was apprehended, a ruling already made (2010) by the Supreme Court. canada-supreme-court-omar-khadr-s-rights-violated His situation is unique and won't be a precedent for any others that I'm aware of. . No i was not refing to Maher Arar, but rather the precedence that will be set if Omar wins his case, if there is a case. Gitmo was a prison set up by the US for any US or for a time Canadian captured POW's or any PIO(persons of US interests) prisoners , but there have been hundrds of Canadian citizens that have joined the ranks of the many organizations fighting in Afghan. Omar became a POI because he could speak english, that he was Khadrs son who had close ties to Bin Ladin....if not for those reasons he would have still been lavishing in a Afghanis prison....with the rest of his buddies... Those not lucky enough to have Omars conections are doing just that....Afghans are not known for keeping very good records, or for that matter giving a shit what nationality you are from. with that said nobody can be sure if there is not any more Canadian citizens in prisons scattered across Afghan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 ....if not for those reasons he would have still been lavishing in a Afghanis prison....with the rest of his buddies... Unfortunately, with Karzai now in direct negotiations with the Taliban, it looks like "the rest of his buddies" will be out of jail before Omar is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) How many would be standing on your side if Omar had killed a member of your family, would you not want some form of justice to be upheld....or would you be willing to turn the other cheek because he was a child, forced to fight as you claim..would that be justice in your eyes....I don't think so.... I do. I would be even more pissed off at our government for twisting and weaving my family member's death into the fabric of a narrative that denies the reality that western geopolitical diddling and interference is the root cause responsible for their death. He was a civilian non combatant, protected by the genva convention, and inter national law.....until the second he decided to pick up a weapon and work for the bad guys....then he became a target, to be hunted down and destroyed...thats what you sent us over to do...And thats what we did... Excuse me but I did not send you. You went as a result of your own free will. Omar was taken into this conflict illegally and the taxes I contributed to your going is money that was taken and spent against my will. Omar is a canadian who according to a few can do as he pleases to anyone across the glode and not be held accountable.... god bless Canadians..... Omar was a child who's rights as such according to the law were violated, ignored and denied by everyone form his parents to our government. ...Should we forget all that, should we grant him millions because we stepped on a few of his rights..... Yes and immediately following that we should hold the people responsible for indoctrinating him responsible for everything he did. Edited February 12, 2014 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I have no frustrations, well none towards young Omar, what fustrates me is people like you (because we are pionting fingers right now) who stand up and defend him, who paints him as a poor young confused kid who should not be held accountable for any of his actions or crimes....When here in Canada everyone is accountable for their crimes including children. How many would be standing on your side if Omar had killed a member of your family, would you not want some form of justice to be upheld....or would you be willing to turn the other cheek because he was a child, forced to fight as you claim..would that be justice in your eyes....I don't think so.... And yet no tears for the Afghans who Omar helped surpress, bring terror to, or killed, Afghan civilians who at one time had the same rights as Omar, but they were stripped by scumbags like omar and his merry band of brothers.....But hey, he is Canadian, he is a child, we have surpress his rights,( while he surpressed others) imprisoned him,( while he imprisoned others) how dare we, the great west with all our rules....fuck the Afghis, they don't count..or do they...well Eyeball do they count.... He was a civilian non combatant, protected by the genva convention, and inter national law.....until the second he decided to pick up a weapon and work for the bad guys....then he became a target, to be hunted down and destroyed...thats what you sent us over to do...And thats what we did... But we seen the war from a different perspective one from the local Afghis side....we patroled daily into their neiborhoods talked to thousands of Afghis , trying to scratch our a living under war time conditions, trying to feed their families........we seen the little girls with their hands cut off, an old man skinned alive, left stalked out in the hot sun plus 55 Cel, to bake, we seen the little girls faces disfigured by acid, knifes, for going to school, we seen locals hung in the town square for talking to us, we seen school teachers raped, exicuted in front of the village for teaching little girls, and my favorite i seen a small boy of 3 with a sucide vest straped on to his little body, forced to make his way to our VCP(veh check piont) on his little bike with training wheels....these are not just my nightmares, but those of the local Afghans who lived with this day after day with no escape, no end of tour date, no mental health clinic to go to.... No these people also have to live with the fact that one of those scumbags that helped in doing these crimes, is locked up in a canadian prison, he has access to books, TV, all the entertainment he wants, he has a staff of workers that feed him, cloth him. instruct him, mental and medic help, and some say he has grounds to sue a government for millions.....from their eyes i'd say omar was being treated like a god....but they don't count....They are just foreignors, foreignors that we agreed to help take back their country....thats old news lets stick our head back in the sand before someone notices.... Omar is a canadian who according to a few can do as he pleases to anyone across the glode and not be held accountable.... god bless Canadians..... He was a Canadian, fighting for a well known terrorist group, in a foreign nation which he had no conection to at all, he was bringing death and destruction to a people in a land that once again he had no connection to at all. he assisted in provide the enemy with intel on NATO convoy paterns, he assisted in building and planting mines and IED's, he took part in a fire fight that killed Afgan soldiers, and a US medic to which he confessed he threw a grenade at ,which resulted in the killing off that medic.....right off the bat he is guilty of dozens of UN war crimes, to which he has been charged with a few, including the death of a US service men....Should we forget all that, should we grant him millions because we stepped on a few of his rights....Army guy you are totally out of lineOmar Khadr can be held accountable for any crimes he may have committed, as the minor he was. He didn't do all the crimes you keep throwing out there. Christopher Speer was not functioning as a medic but a combatant that day. STOP TWISTING FACTS! STOP trying to make Omar Khadr accountable for every horror you encountered. HE DIDN'T DO ALL THAT!! You have lost credibility by demanding ridiculous levels of punishment for crimes he didn't do. You want Omar Khadr to 'pay' for your own pain. That's not going to happen. Omar Khadr has been sentenced and is serving his time, for a crime he doesn't remember, may not have committed (according to testimony of one US soldier) but confessed to nonetheless. If his rights as a minor were trampled by our government, he may get some compensation. Now about that 3 year old ... what punishment would you suggest for him? Heinous crime! Lock him up?!?! Do you not see that the crimes are being committed by the adults who do those things to their children? . Edited February 13, 2014 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I do. I would be even more pissed off at our government for twisting and weaving my family member's death into the fabric of a narrative that denies the reality that western geopolitical diddling and interference is the root cause responsible for their death. Excuse me but I did not send you. You went as a result of your own free will. Omar was taken into this conflict illegally and the taxes I contributed to your going is money that was taken and spent against my will. Omar was a child who's rights as such according to the law were violated, ignored and denied by everyone form his parents to our government. Yes and immediately following that we should hold the people responsible for indoctrinating him responsible for everything he did. I'm not sure what your saying here, would you want justice for your families murder or not...would you want those indivs that were found guilty to serve their max sentence, or would you rather see them out in 8 years. that was the question not if your pissed at the government for agreeing to live up to it's NATO's obligations, and assisting a country get back on it's feet after the conflict. And like i said before what of the Afghanis laws and rights, screw them as well . Good luck with holding Mommy responsible, that should have happened years ago, but we lacked the policitcal will to carry that out. Because of people like you eyeball, and their tear shedding for Omar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Army guy you are totally out of line Omar Khadr can be held accountable for any crimes he may have committed, as the minor he was. He didn't do all the crimes you keep throwing out there. Christopher Speer was not functioning as a medic but a combatant that day. STOP TWISTING FACTS! STOP trying to make Omar Khadr accountable for every horror you encountered. HE DIDN'T DO ALL THAT!! . Am i out of line, Omar has already stated he was involved in spying on NATO convoys, reporting timings and routes they traveled to a terrorist group, that is a fact Omar said it out of his own lips..... Omar built IEDs and mines fact number two, once again there is a tape of him bragging on what he did.... Omar planted those same IED's and mines again he made a tape of himself doing it....US intel reports from the area that he claimed to of planted his mines and IED's that a US military convoy had struck a group of Mines and killed serveral US servicemen around the same dates of Omars and his merry band of buddies claim. Is there a direct link sure is, is their proof that it was Omars group no, however there group was the only bomber group in the area....odds are high that it was your little man.... Omar took part in a fire fight, that seen the deaths of serveral Afghan military soldiers , who at the time knocked on the door to talk to the owners , only to be gunned down in a hail of gunfire.....thats right Omar was with that group, that gunned down those Afghanis soldiers... He took part in combat, in a land he had no stake in....He was not Afghanis, nor were his mother or father.....He was Canadian....who according to you guys has the right to do just that....to help terrorise a foreign nation, to help opress it's people, to assist a group to remain in power so that they could force their religous values and extremists laws on the masses.... Tell me Omar did not do any of these things.... So he is guilty of those crimes i've have claimed he took part in....the other crimes i mentioned i did not say he did those, but rather the group he belonged to.....and he knew they had been done, as i explained earlier on, about their news letters....He knew what was going on within his terrorist group, they could not stop bragging about....we knew because the villigers told us.... If i'm twisting the facts then Prove me wrong with a crediable source....because everything i'v said i can provide a source to you... But the facts are not want you want to hear, they don't paint boy wonder in a good light....but rather who he was, a terrorist....one that had comitted crimes him self, he knew of the other crimes and bragged them up....he wanted to kill coalition soldiers...you know those guys Ya thats right Canadian soldiers made up some of that group.....ya team.... And I'm the one that has lost credibilty by demanding ridiculous levels of punishment for crimes he didn't do. Not once in this entire post or other posts have i demanded any punishment, what i have said is that he should serve his full sentence, you know the sentence he was handed out by a court of law.....i did also say he should have been charged with all the crimes he has commited....Is that ridiculous, mean while another Canadian boy of 18 has been reported killed in Syria , another wanting to live the dream, in search of virgins and the holy land....Had we made an example of of Omar, perhaps we would not have been faced with the dozens trying to following in his foot steps.....Oh and that boy, is the same boy that was caught and convicted for terrorism in Canada, has done his 3 or 4 years, and now he is dead in syria....sounds like your justice system is working, looks like he learned his leason.... I keep mentioning this , I've already learned to forget about my pain, what interests me about young omar is that justice is served..... . Now about that 3 year old ... what punishment would you suggest for him? Heinous crime! Lock him up?!?! Do you not see that the crimes are being committed by the adults who do those things to their children? . I've told this story already, you'll have to search through the older posts if you want the details....the 3 year old dies in an explosion, as his 17 year old handler detonates the 3 year old vest ... as we are forced to shoot him....The 17 year old later dies of his wounds he recieves in a gun battle as he ran directly into Canadian follow up forces.... This is what Afghanistan was really about....this happened all most everyday.....and those that made it happen people like Omar, need to be held responsible within our justice system....That 3 year knew he was going to die, he was crying and scared he had seen this happen before.... I get the fact that Omar is not responsable for all the death and destruction i witinessed, but he played a role in this ugly war, and yes i would like to see him pay for his crimes, if that makes me out of line then i guess your right.....but from my chair your the one out of line for taking his side regardless of his age or what you claim our government did to him.... Edited February 13, 2014 by Army Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Am i out of line, Omar has already stated he was involved in spying on NATO convoys, reporting timings and routes they traveled to a terrorist group, that is a fact Omar said it out of his own lips..... Omar built IEDs and mines fact number two, once again there is a tape of him bragging on what he did.... Omar planted those same IED's and mines again he made a tape of himself doing it....US intel reports from the area that he claimed to of planted his mines and IED's that a US military convoy had struck a group of Mines and killed serveral US servicemen around the same dates of Omars and his merry band of buddies claim. Is there a direct link sure is, is their proof that it was Omars group no, however there group was the only bomber group in the area....odds are high that it was your little man.... Omar took part in a fire fight, that seen the deaths of serveral Afghan military soldiers , who at the time knocked on the door to talk to the owners , only to be gunned down in a hail of gunfire.....thats right Omar was with that group, that gunned down those Afghanis soldiers... He took part in combat, in a land he had no stake in....He was not Afghanis, nor were his mother or father.....He was Canadian....who according to you guys has the right to do just that....to help terrorise a foreign nation, to help opress it's people, to assist a group to remain in power so that they could force their religous values and extremists laws on the masses.... Tell me Omar did not do any of these things.... So he is guilty of those crimes i've have claimed he took part in....the other crimes i mentioned i did not say he did those, but rather the group he belonged to.....and he knew they had been done, as i explained earlier on, about their news letters....He knew what was going on within his terrorist group, they could not stop bragging about....we knew because the villigers told us.... If i'm twisting the facts then Prove me wrong with a crediable source....because everything i'v said i can provide a source to you... But the facts are not want you want to hear, they don't paint boy wonder in a good light....but rather who he was, a terrorist....one that had comitted crimes him self, he knew of the other crimes and bragged them up....he wanted to kill coalition soldiers...you know those guys Ya thats right Canadian soldiers made up some of that group.....ya team.... And I'm the one that has lost credibilty by demanding ridiculous levels of punishment for crimes he didn't do. Not once in this entire post or other posts have i demanded any punishment, what i have said is that he should serve his full sentence, you know the sentence he was handed out by a court of law.....i did also say he should have been charged with all the crimes he has commited....Is that ridiculous, mean while another Canadian boy of 18 has been reported killed in Syria , another wanting to live the dream, in search of virgins and the holy land....Had we made an example of of Omar, perhaps we would not have been faced with the dozens trying to following in his foot steps.....Oh and that boy, is the same boy that was caught and convicted for terrorism in Canada, has done his 3 or 4 years, and now he is dead in syria....sounds like your justice system is working, looks like he learned his leason.... I keep mentioning this , I've already learned to forget about my pain, what interests me about young omar is that justice is served..... I've told this story already, you'll have to search through the older posts if you want the details....the 3 year old dies in an explosion, as his 17 year old handler detonates the 3 year old vest ... as we are forced to shoot him....The 17 year old later dies of his wounds he recieves in a gun battle as he ran directly into Canadian follow up forces.... This is what Afghanistan was really about....this happened all most everyday.....and those that made it happen people like Omar, need to be held responsible within our justice system....That 3 year knew he was going to die, he was crying and scared he had seen this happen before.... I get the fact that Omar is not responsable for all the death and destruction i witinessed, but he played a role in this ugly war, and yes i would like to see him pay for his crimes, if that makes me out of line then i guess your right.....but from my chair your the one out of line for taking his side regardless of his age or what you claim our government did to him.... He is serving his full sentence, the way it's normally done. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 And so are the people Omar left behind, the people and legal citizens of Afghan they are serving their full sentence as well life with no chance of parole . left to pick up the pieces of their lifes as Omar lives in the lap of luxury, as he sways the weak to support his cause...."that Our government tramped on some of his rights"....And the very Canadians who had agreed to help the people of Afghan gladly forget them sweeping most of the crimes Omar has done aside to ensure that a terrorist rights are not shattered in the process.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 So if omar gets out early enough he will be able to run for the liberals in the next federal election. In TO he would probably win hands down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Jailing child soldiers does not do any good whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Poor wee Omar...old enough to be a man and a killer in Afghanistan. Still called a child and a victim here in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Poor wee Omar...old enough to be a man and a killer in Afghanistan. Still called a child and a victim here in Canada.Poor Ishmael Beah...old enough to be a man and killer in Sierra Leone. Still called a child and a victim here in Canada. Edited February 13, 2014 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Jailing child soldiers does not do any good whatsoever. I would say that each should be judged by the cases merits or severity. Even the UN judgement on this matter still says that Children should be held accountable for their actions , However that treatment should take precedence. Why is that, if we meaning the world have extreme difficulties in bring to justice those responsable for recruiting and using child soldiers, and with child soldiers getting for the most part nothing for there actions then where is the deterence to be a child soldier. http://www.child-soldiers.org/faq.php Should child soldiers who have committed war crimes or other serious violations of human rights or humanitarian law be held to account? International human rights and child protection experts generally recognize that child soldiers are first and foremost victims of grave abuses of human rights, and that states must prioritize the prosecution of those who unlawfully recruit and use them. Child soldiers should never be prosecuted solely for their association with the armed forces or group. However, there will be cases where a child soldier was clearly in control of his or her actions, was not coerced, drugged, or forced into committing atrocities. In such cases, excluding criminal responsibility for these children may deny justice to the victims and may also not be in the child’s own best interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Poor Ishmael Beah...old enough to be a man and killer in Sierra Leone. Still called a child and a victim here in Canada. Will he be staying with your family? How about Omar? Can he live with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I'm not sure what your saying here, would you want justice for your families murder or not... Yes I'd want justice but we obviously completely disagree on who the criminals are. To me these include people and institutions that amongst many many other crimes, have illegally persecuted Omar Khadr. And like i said before what of the Afghanis laws and rights, screw them as well . Like I've said before we contributed to screwing them when we invaded them. Good luck with holding Mommy responsible, that should have happened years ago, but we lacked the policitcal will to carry that out. Because of people like you eyeball, and their tear shedding for Omar. There was plenty of political will being expended, deliberately, on the wrong person. I've been pointing my finger at his mother since day one and you've been faulting both. Shame on you and shame on us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Key words: not coerced or forced. Taking a child and making a soldier out of him to fight for Al Qaeda is coersion by any definition of the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) And when that coercion and force is applied starting at age 8 and maintained throughout a child's upbringing...holding them responsible for the result is simply inhumane, amongst other things. I honestly think that the reluctance to go after Omar Khadr's mother is that doing so would encroach on the issue of introducing young children to religious beliefs. That would blow our society to pieces but so could ignoring the fact that allowing it to continue in an unmitigated manner can clearly result in disaster. We accommodate such delusional thinking at our peril. Edited February 13, 2014 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 There are lots of recent videos going around of child soldiers in Syria and other conflicts in the Middle East. Including a particularly disturbing one showing a young boy of perhaps 10 years of age beheading an adult male with a dull machete while he chants 'God is Great'. Sorry...can't show you that one, here. Now...be honest. Who is going to let such a fellow...young or not...hang out with their kids? Even after 900 years worth of emotional therapy? I'm betting absolutely none of us. Some might talk a good game re: justice and fairness and how the poor lad was coerced by adults. But, when push comes to shove, Omar in Canada is fine as long as it is in another province...preferably the one furthest away from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 There are lots of recent videos going around of child soldiers in Syria and other conflicts in the Middle East. Including a particularly disturbing one showing a young boy of perhaps 10 years of age beheading an adult male with a dull machete while he chants 'God is Great'. Sorry...can't show you that one, here. Yep, that was said to be the Free Syrian Army who carried out these beheadings. Good thing we are not supporting Al-queda in the region. NATO provides material support and a base of operations for these 'rebels' causing more damage than Kadhr ever could. Blowback in 3, 2, .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yep, that was said to be the Free Syrian Army who carried out these beheadings. Good thing we are not supporting Al-queda in the region. NATO provides material support and a base of operations for these 'rebels' causing more damage than Kadhr ever could. Blowback in 3, 2, .... Was it a NATO machete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Your rhetoric about where a child soldier would live is simply a red herring. It's not a black and white issue. Lock them all up forever or let them all roam around with machetes on the streets in your town amongst your children is a false choice. Try and be alittle more nuanced and honest about the issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Your rhetoric about where a child soldier would live is simply a red herring. It's not a black and white issue. Lock them all up forever or let them all roam around with machetes on the streets in your town amongst your children is a false choice. Try and be alittle more nuanced and honest about the issue... Put up, then. I'm honest in knowing that I'd never trust the kid...or adult...that murdered en masse in Sierra Leon or Iraq or Syria. Like I say...some talk a good game re: justice. As long as it is elsewhere. Edited February 13, 2014 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 There are lots of recent videos going around of child soldiers in Syria and other conflicts in the Middle East. Including a particularly disturbing one showing a young boy of perhaps 10 years of age beheading an adult male with a dull machete while he chants 'God is Great'. Sorry...can't show you that one, here. Now...be honest. Who is going to let such a fellow...young or not...hang out with their kids? Even after 900 years worth of emotional therapy? I'm betting absolutely none of us. Some might talk a good game re: justice and fairness and how the poor lad was coerced by adults. But, when push comes to shove, Omar in Canada is fine as long as it is in another province...preferably the one furthest away from you. The issue is the need so many Canadians have to throw these into super-max prisons, punish them for the sins of their parents or adults who should have known better and then stigmatize, ostracize and denigrate them (which is a crime) until the day they die. It's just plain sick. If Omar moves next door to you and you don't like it, then I guess it sucks to be you. In the meantime you're always free to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 The issue is the need so many Canadians have to throw these into super-max prisons, punish them for the sins of their parents or adults who should have known better and then stigmatize, ostracize and denigrate them (which is a crime) until the day they die. It's just plain sick. If Omar moves next door to you and you don't like it, then I guess it sucks to be you. In the meantime you're always free to move. You'd invite him to a BBQ? Introduce him to the family? You can pretend it's merely me...but, I think you have more sense than to allow a 'reformed' child soldier to get that close. You talk a good game...as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yes, I'd have no hesitation in inviting him to a barbecue. I'd be wary of inviting you and Army Guy but to be fair I'd have to give you the benefit of doubt. I could probably safely do so knowing you'd take a pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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