Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson's comments.

[bush_cheney2004]

What Phil Robertson and others fail to recognize is that public condemnation of homosexuality by a public figure contributes to violent hate crimes against innocent people:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States

Sorry, you have picked the wrong country to complain about. Freedom of speech trumps hate speech laws in the U.S.A., so please keep them on your side of the border. Criticizing Robertson is also protected speech.

[Shady]

Sorry, you have picked the wrong country to complain about. Freedom of speech trumps hate speech laws in the U.S.A., so please keep them on your side of the border. Criticizing Robertson is also protected speech.

Quite right. Except of course the public comdemnation of rednecks. Then that's pretty much ok by said concerned forumers.

[bush_cheney2004]

Many examples, from the postings of atheist Christmas songs, postings of how atheists celebrate the Christmas holidays, postings about how the pope says that atheists can get into heaven, status updates mocking Christmas. The list goes on. Quite a bit of stuff for people that profess not to believe. You'd think they'd just not bother. But nope. Oh well. It's the new style atheist these days I guess. The prothletizing kind. Ironic.

Yes....this has long been the rap against "elitists" in general, and "liberal elitists" specifically. That's why they are called "culture wars".

[BubberMiley]

It's the new style atheist these days I guess. The prothletizing kind. Ironic.

Many examples but none of them whining. Where's the whining? You know what they say about those who can't put up.

[Shady]

Many examples but none of them whining. Where's the whining? You know what they say about those who can't put up.

In my opinion it amounts to whining. But we can agree to disagree.

[bush_cheney2004]

In my opinion it amounts to whining. But we can agree to disagree.

It is whining in that some atheists just presume that their "logical" stance and belief system should not be doubted or offended by those silly religious folk in the public (and private) square. Another battle of "sub-cultures". So far, "God" is winning.

[BubberMiley]

In my opinion it amounts to whining. But we can agree to disagree.

Just like, in your opinion, "morphing" doesn't mean "morphing?"

[WWWTT]

What about Santa? That he delivers me gifts and eats the cookies I put out for him on Christmas Eve?

No, that would be the cockroaches and the rats eating your cookies.

You shouldn't leave food lying around at night!

Cockroaches and rats are real!

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

I guess we can agree to disagree. But if what you say is true, he also said that homosexuality leads to sleeping around with women, and included beastiality with promescuity. As a heterosexual, I don't take offense. I just don't really care, nor do I put much significance into what he said. Like I've already said, you need to grow a thicker skin.

Why do I need to grow thicker skin? Did I say that I was offended by it? No. I said it was offensive and I pointed out that he said homosexuality leads to bestiality.

I'm not going to agree to disagree with you about that because those were his words. You start with homosexuality then it morphs out from there to bestiality (amongst other things). He's completely wrong. There is absolutely no evidence to back up this claim. So unless you want to provide one, I'm not agreeing to disagree with you. I'm going to point out that the statement is factually incorrect.

And if we're disagreeing about what he said, I don't agree to that either because his exact words are public record.

[cybercoma]

Just like, in your opinion, "morphing" doesn't mean "morphing?"

This is the sickness with a lot of so-called conservative types like Shady (not to be confused with actual conservatives). These so-called ones like to just make up facts or demand that their opinions, no matter how demonstrably wrong they are, are held as fact and respected. Sorry, Shady. You don't have a right to have your opinions respected. You have a right to defend them and others have a right to criticize them.

[Shady]

Just like, in your opinion, "morphing" doesn't mean "morphing?"

In the context of what he said, morphing as is defined, doesn't make sense. Unless somehow homosexuality leads to heterosexual promescuity.

[kimmy]

Why do you think he used the word "morph" then?

Well, I wouldn't presume to know the contents of either Phil Robertson's heart or his thesaurus, but in context, it appears like he's looking for a word that means more like "expand". In context it's obvious that he's explaining his notion of sin, not trying to describe sin as a process that starts as homosexuality, and changes to bestiality, then heterosexual promiscuity, then back to homosexuality again.

Everything is blurred on whats right and whats wrong, he says. Sin becomes fine.

What, in your mind, is sinful?

Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men, he says. Then he paraphrases Corinthians: Dont be deceived. Neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlersthey wont inherit the kingdom of God. Dont deceive yourself. Its not right.

Read More http://www.gq.com/entertainment/television/201401/duck-dynasty-phil-robertson#ixzz2pAYcbcxB

That point is furthered by his list of people who aren't getting into heaven immediately afterward.

As for Shady's list of alleged whining, . The only whining was from Shady himself.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

You have a right to defend them.....

Not in Canada......bring on the HRC's !!

[WWWTT]

Here's a funny relevant picture

WWWTT

[jacee]

Not in Canada......bring on the HRC's !!

They have a right to defend their opinions there too.

Free speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

[jacee]

Here's a funny relevant picture

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

In the context of what he said, morphing as is defined, doesn't make sense. Unless somehow homosexuality leads to heterosexual promescuity.

That's exactly what he said. It doesn't make sense because religious belief doesn't require reason.

[cybercoma]

Well, I wouldn't presume to know the contents of either Phil Robertson's heart or his thesaurus, but in context, it appears like he's looking for a word that means more like "expand". In context it's obvious that he's explaining his notion of sin, not trying to describe sin as a process that starts as homosexuality, and changes to bestiality, then heterosexual promiscuity, then back to homosexuality again.

That point is furthered by his list of people who aren't getting into heaven immediately afterward.

As for Shady's list of alleged whining, . The only whining was from Shady himself.

-k

So saying homosexuality "morphs into bestiality" doesn't mean homosexuality leads to bestiality? Because that's exactly what he's saying. The only way to claim he's not saying that is to argue that you know what he "intended" to say, as opposed to looking at his actual words. It's impossible to know his thoughts or intentions. I can only go by his words.

[bush_cheney2004]

So saying homosexuality "morphs into bestiality" doesn't mean homosexuality leads to bestiality? Because that's exactly what he's saying. The only way to claim he's not saying that is to argue that you know what he "intended" to say, as opposed to looking at his actual words. It's impossible to know his thoughts or intentions. I can only go by his words.

It's not that complicated....heterosexuality can lead to bestiality and a lot of other "alities" as well. Robertson's views are not excluded given the wide spectrum of documented human behaviour(s).

Edited January 1, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[Shady]

Not in Canada......bring on the HRC's !!

Exactly. I have a right to defend them, unless my opinion offends somebody. Then I have to defend myself. With a lawyer. See McLean's or Ezra LeVant. And others.

[jacee]

Exactly. I have a right to defend them, unless my opinion offends somebody. Then I have to defend myself. With a lawyer. See McLean's or Ezra LeVant. And others.

You have that right.

And if it's 'free speech' that incites hatred, you have the right to defend yourself in criminal court.

Anti-gay pamphlets broke law Supreme Court says

[BC_chick]

To add to Dick's comments above, I would say that this sort of program can help to humanize people.

I don't know that the Robertson family (prior to this controversy, at least) ever attempted to represent conservatives. They're obviously big fans of the right to own guns, and they're obviously big into prayer... but I don't know that anything about the program is in particular a platform for conservative ideology. So I don't see why the program would be embarrassing to conservatives. I think the speakers list at the Value Voters Summit should be far more embarrassing to conservatives than a rural family on a TV show.

-k

But again, this presumes that there is a universal dislike for such exaggeration(s) by a particular sub-culture, when this is clearly not always the case. "Redneck culture" is widely celebrated in American media and has been for many decades. The attributes of other "sub-cultures" are also embraced and depicted without widespread embarrassment or unhappiness, and in many cases such stereotypes are purposely exaggerated to achieve mainstream understanding and acceptance by the larger population.

As I said in my previous post, this has nothing to do with being embarrassed, it has to do with negative depictions and stereotyping. Italians are pretty proud of their culture too, but a lot of Italian-Americans were not pleased with Jersey Shore. Same idea here.

[bush_cheney2004]

As I said in my previous post, this has nothing to do with being embarrassed, it has to do with negative depictions and stereotyping. Italians are pretty proud of their culture too, but a lot of Italian-Americans were not pleased with Jersey Shore. Same idea here.

Bad idea...Jersey Shore was a very big success, as was The Sopranos, Goodfellas, Godfather films, etc. Stereotyping is alive and well, and protected speech in the United States. Spike Lee purposely exploited such stereotypes in a film called Do The Right Thing.

[BC_chick]

Bad idea...Jersey Shore was a very big success, as was The Sopranos, Goodfellas, Godfather films, etc. Stereotyping is alive and well, and protected speech in the United States. Spike Lee purposely exploited such stereotypes in a film called Do The Right Thing.

I don't recall saying that stereotyping against free speech or that it's doesn't make big money in Hollywood so I'm not sure why you're saying this.

I said I'm surprised there aren't more conservatives upset about the show's depiction of the southern God-loving 'rednecks' the same way other people sub-cultures seem to get upset when they're painted in a negative light.

[bush_cheney2004]

I said I'm surprised there aren't more conservatives upset about the show's depiction of the southern God-loving 'rednecks' the same way other people sub-cultures seem to get upset when they're painted in a negative light.

...and I am not sure why you don't understand that your premise is largely false. Which "conservatives" should be getting upset because you believe some of them should ?