Students offered grants if they tweet pro-Israeli propaganda

[Guest American Woman]

Moving the goal posts I see?

Did I say killing civilians? Nope.

Stay up will ya?

I said it. So how about you stay up? My comment was about awards/rewards for killing civilians, and as I said, no one in said countries has received awards/rewards for killing civilians. Edited August 15, 2013 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

Maybe you don't love your family as much as I love mine...

Wow.

Ok, that ugly comment aside, you would snatch a baby out of its mother's arms and stab it to death to save your child? And you think that's proof of a greater love?

Edited to add: At any rate, you already said: "Well, I wont be detonating a nuke and killing millions to save three members of my family..." which proves you wouldn't do anything.

Edited August 15, 2013 by American Woman

[Signals.Cpl]

Wow.

Ok, that ugly comment aside, you would snatch a baby out of its mother's arms and stab it to death to save your child? And you think that's proof of a greater love?

Not an ugly comment at all. Right now I wouldn't do a lot of things, when my emotions take over and my logical and rational thoughts disappear I may be more than willing to do that. Lets give a ridiculous scenario for a ridiculous scenario, the very existence of the US is in danger as are its 350 million residents, would you or would you not sacrifice 50 million people to save the US? Or 100 million or 200 million... the rest of the world?

[guyser]

My comment was about awards/rewards for killing civilians, and as I said, no one has received awards/rewards for killing civilians.

Tibbets got one.

He was sent on a mission to drop a bomb. The bomb he dropped, and the people who built it , All those Mahattan folks, knew they were killing civilians.

When he returned he got the DSC, for dropping the bomb, the bomb that killed 1,000s of civilians and evereyone (but you) knew it would.

That you want to attempt some mental gymnastics in some vain attempt to save face is well...pretty disingenious

Next up from you...." I didnt kill that person, I only pulled the trigger. The gun killed him"

Sorry, I guess Tibbets got the DSC for pushing the bomb door bay button.

[Guest American Woman]

Not an ugly comment at all.

Totally ugly. To suggest that someone who wouldn't kill an innocent child to save their own doesn't love their child as much as you love yours is ugly to the max.

Right now I wouldn't do a lot of things, when my emotions take over and my logical and rational thoughts disappear I may be more than willing to do that.

So now it's become you may be more than willing?? Here's the thing - everyone doesn't lose control of their emotions to the same extent, and losing control isn't proof of a greater love. If a hothead beats up a guy for insulting his wife that doesn't mean he "loves his wife more" than another guy who keeps his head in the same situation.

Lets give a ridiculous scenario for a ridiculous scenario, the very existence of the US is in danger as are its 350 million residents, would you or would you not sacrifice 50 million people to save the US? Or 100 million or 200 million... the rest of the world?

Of course I wouldn't risk the rest of the world. If it were that simple, the U.S. would be dropping the atomic bomb every time Americans were threatened. We wouldn't be taking the safety of civilians into account during war. Israel would simply wipe Palestine off the map.

Even in war we show restraint. There isn't a "nothing we wouldn't do" attitude.

[Hudson Jones]

Nope, doesn't equal that at all. No soldier ever received an award or reward for "collateral damage."

Sure they have. Pilots, drone operators, tank crewmen, soldiers, gunmen, suicide bombers, bombers and others; they all receive awards despite killing civilians. Despite bringing terror, fear and death to civilians. This is not an opinion, this is a fact.

[Guest American Woman]

Sure they have. Pilots, drone operators, tank crewmen, soldiers, gunmen, suicide bombers, bombers and others; they all receive awards despite killing civilians. Despite bringing terror, fear and death to civilians. This is not an opinion, this is a fact.

No, they have not. They do not receive awards FOR killing civilians. The suicide bombers are rewarded FOR killing civilians. For PURPOSELY killing civilians. For doing NOTHING BUT killing civilians. It's the goal, and the purpose of the reward.

[Hudson Jones]

I really hope some of you are students in Israel and all of this propagating is not being done for free.

[Hudson Jones]

No, they have not. They do not receive awards FOR killing civilians. The suicide bombers are rewarded FOR killing civilians. For PURPOSELY killing civilians. For doing NOTHING BUT killing civilians. It's the goal, and the purpose of the reward.

Why are you B.S.ing?

Who said they receive awards FOR killing civilians? They are receiving their award, just like others, who are not suicide bombers, for fighting for the cause. Like the thousands who are in prison.

[Signals.Cpl]

Totally ugly. To suggest that someone who wouldn't kill an innocent child to save their own doesn't love their child as much as you love yours is ugly to the max.

No, see the fact is that my example was just that an example, different people commit atrocities for different reasons, some do it for money, others do it for the adrenaline rush, some do it for the experience others for religious/political/ethnic/national etc... reasons, while others do it for love, some do it out of cowardice and yet others do it for basic human desires such as sex and/or power. The truth is I have a price yet I don't know what it is, it might be the wellbeing of my family or it might be my own existence due to cowardice. I don't know and I hope I never need to find out.

So now it's become you may be more than willing?? Here's the thing - everyone doesn't lose control of their emotions to the same extent, and losing control isn't proof of a greater love. If a hothead beats up a guy for insulting his wife that doesn't mean he "loves his wife more" than another guy who keeps his head in the same situation.

Maybe you are the exception but I doubt it. As I said history is full of examples, people who have committed atrocities out of cowardice, self promotion, lust for power, money, sex fame and any number of other things and others who have let atrocities happen for the exact same reasons. And yes it does mean one loves more than the other, if you are assaulting my girlfriend I will beat you in to the ground wether you are a man or a women, that means I love her and protect her, while someone who stands by and "keeps his cool" means he doesn't really care.

Of course I wouldn't risk the rest of the world. If it were that simple, the U.S. would be dropping the atomic bomb every time Americans were threatened. We wouldn't be taking the safety of civilians into account during war. Israel would simply wipe Palestine off the map.

But see, it was a ridiculous scenario for your ridiculous scenario. I have a magic button, you have the choice, every American man,women and child Dies or an twice the number of Chinese men women and children die. Your children dying, or the children of some stranger in a far away land dying...

You pretend to be above this but the reality is that you are just like the rest of us, you have a price wether you will admit it or not. I don't trust people like you who claim to be above the rest, be it a soldier who tells me how heroic he will be in a battle field without yet experiencing combat or a civilian who says she will let her children die because she thinks she is more evolved then the rest of us. Everyone has a price, wether it is simple or complicated, wether its selfish or noble the end result everyone has a price, it might be different for each and every person but that does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that some are more evolved than others.

[Signals.Cpl]

No, they have not. They do not receive awards FOR killing civilians. The suicide bombers are rewarded FOR killing civilians. For PURPOSELY killing civilians. For doing NOTHING BUT killing civilians. It's the goal, and the purpose of the reward.

And what if they are rewarded for killing an American, Canadian or Israeli soldier with the civilians being "collateral damage"?

[Guest American Woman]

Why are you B.S.ing?

Who said they receive awards FOR killing civilians? They are receiving their award, just like others, who are not suicide bombers, for fighting for the cause. Like the thousands who are in prison.

Good grief. The issue under discussion is suicide bombers being rewarded for killing civilians.

Not one country you mentioned honors anyone for killing civilians, much less deliberately killing civilians.

Good to see you finally admit that no governments in the countries you mentioned do such a thing. Can't say the same for Palestine. Which was the point from the beginning, in spite of all the dancing around it by some.

[Guest American Woman]

No, see the fact is that my example was just that an example, different people commit atrocities for different reasons, some do it for money, others do it for the adrenaline rush, some do it for the experience others for religious/political/ethnic/national etc... reasons, while others do it for love, some do it out of cowardice and yet others do it for basic human desires such as sex and/or power. The truth is I have a price yet I don't know what it is, it might be the wellbeing of my family or it might be my own existence due to cowardice. I don't know and I hope I never need to find out.

Yes, people do commit atrocities for different reasons. I've never said otherwise. What I HAVE said is that not everyone will do anything for a price, and your "I guess I love my family more" was an ugly comment. Just as I said. Being willing to kill an innocent child to save yours is also not proof of "loving one's family more" just as I said. It was nothing more than an ugly comment.

Maybe you are the exception but I doubt it.

There are many "exceptions."

As I said history is full of examples, people who have committed atrocities out of cowardice, self promotion, lust for power, money, sex fame and any number of other things and others who have let atrocities happen for the exact same reasons.

History is also full of examples of people not doing anything for a price.

And yes it does mean one loves more than the other, if you are assaulting my girlfriend I will beat you in to the ground wether you are a man or a women, that means I love her and protect her, while someone who stands by and "keeps his cool" means he doesn't really care.

I didn't say anything about an assault, did I?

But see, it was a ridiculous scenario for your ridiculous scenario. I have a magic button, you have the choice, every American man,women and child Dies or an twice the number of Chinese men women and children die. Your children dying, or the children of some stranger in a far away land dying...

There's nothing ridiculous about my scenario. It proves that everyone won't do anything for a price.

You pretend to be above this but the reality is that you are just like the rest of us,

I'm not pretending anything, and everyone wouldn't react or do the same, so this "rest of us" nonsense is just that, as there are plenty of people who wouldn't do anything for a price. You've already said what you wouldn't do, so I don't know why you are even continuing to argue along this vein.

you have a price wether you will admit it or not.

That's you're opinion. You can make claims about me all you want, or make claims about anyone else, but all they are is your opinion.

I don't trust people like you who claim to be above the rest,

I couldn't care less if you trust "people like me" or not.

be it a soldier who tells me how heroic he will be in a battle field without yet experiencing combat or a civilian who says she will let her children die because she thinks she is more evolved then the rest of us.

Sounds a bit like an anger issue here as I never once said I think I'm more evolved than anyone else.

Everyone has a price, wether it is simple or complicated, wether its selfish or noble the end result everyone has a price, it might be different for each and every person but that does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that some are more evolved than others.

Again. Never said anything about being "more evolved." What I did say is not everyone will do anything for a price.

[DogOnPorch]

You cannot speak for anyone but yourself; you certainly cannot speak for me. So in other words, you have a price - and you would be willing to blow up civilians, including children, if the price was right. Unbelievable.

Even Tony Montana said no to that.

[Signals.Cpl]

Yes, people do commit atrocities for different reasons. I've never said otherwise. What I HAVE said is that not everyone will do anything for a price, and your "I guess I love my family more" was an ugly comment. Just as I said. Being willing to kill an innocent child to save yours is also not proof of "loving one's family more" just as I said. It was nothing more than an ugly comment.

Again though, killing an innocent child has a price, there is something that you would kill a child for its that simple. Maybe it will not be to save your child maybe it will be to save a hundred innocent children its plain and simple.

You asked earlier how one blows themselvs against their will... well simple the same way a Navy SEAL throws himself on to a grenade to save his friends. You hold a gun to my loved once I will blow myself wether I want to or not.... thats how.

There are many "exceptions."

Such as?

History is also full of examples of people not doing anything for a price.

Yeah, because nothing was demanded of them. John Smith of Anytown USA might have grown up and had the same troubles as the average person and never had to make the decision, just because he didn't have to put a price on his actions doesn't mean there would be none...

I didn't say anything about an assault, did I?

And I didnt say anything about killing a little child did I? See how that works?

There's nothing ridiculous about my scenario. It proves that everyone won't do anything for a price.

There is a price for everything. There is a way I can force you to commit any action, there is a price you will not be willing to pay for inaction, its that simple. It might be your family or your nation, or it might be your own life or money it is different to everyone. You are either thick in the head or pretending to be thick in the head but you have a price.

I'm not pretending anything, and everyone wouldn't react or do the same, so this "rest of us" nonsense is just that, as there are plenty of people who wouldn't do anything for a price. You've already said what you wouldn't do, so I don't know why you are even continuing to argue along this vein.

I dont know why I am arguing either, you are worse than bud... its like arguing with a wall... only this wall only spews self righteous bullshit.

[Hudson Jones]

Good grief. The issue under discussion is suicide bombers being rewarded for killing civilians.

You are either unable to comprehend and get this simple fact or you're purposely playing dumb. Many of those who are rewarded by U.S., Israel and other countries, kill civilians. Despite killing civilians, they are honoured. The same as the suicide bombers who are honoured by Palestinians. Like, for example, airplane, helicopter and drone pilots who shoot missiles indiscriminatory, knowing civilians would be killed.

Now, do tell: Are you getting any monetary reward for your unconditional support for Israel or are you doing this for free?

Edited August 17, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[dre]

This type of assymetric war is generally used by people who dont have much choice.

In any case, Israel kills an awful lot more civilians than the palestinian resistance, and the ammount of human life lost to terrorism is a completely drop in the bucket compared to the literally hundreds of millions that have been wiped out by national armies. Especially big military powers like Russia, Germany, Japan, England, the US etc.

For assymetric groups to try to compete with this would be like trying to fill a 40 gallon drum with an eye dropper.

[Shady]

Good grief. The issue under discussion is suicide bombers being rewarded for killing civilians.

Good to see you finally admit that no governments in the countries you mentioned do such a thing. Can't say the same for Palestine. Which was the point from the beginning, in spite of all the dancing around it by some.

Yep, there isn't any point of discussing this with people that make excuses for barbaric and uncivilized actions, while at the same time get a serious case of the vapours over tweets on social media. It's truly absurd.

[Shady]

This type of assymetric war is generally used by people who dont have much choice.

In any case, Israel kills an awful lot more civilians than the palestinian resistance, and the ammount of human life lost to terrorism is a completely drop in the bucket compared to the literally hundreds of millions that have been wiped out by national armies. Especially big military powers like Russia, Germany, Japan, England, the US etc.

For assymetric groups to try to compete with this would be like trying to fill a 40 gallon drum with an eye dropper.

I think we were talking about rewarding suicide bombers vs rewarding tweets. Not sure what you're talking about. However, it's interesting that you left out any other Middle East countries aside from Israel, that also possess armies that have killed millions. Probably just an oversight. *rolls eyes*

[PIK]

Well, I wont be detonating a nuke and killing millions to save three members of my family but I would be willing to do pretty much anything to protect my family as would you and 90% of people in this world. The rest just don't give a sh*t.

Lets say I hold a gun to your child's head and told you I would torture and kill her/him if you didn't comply, would you do anything for your child? Pay any price wether it be your life or my life if necessary?

I will detonate a nuke to save my family.

[Wilber]

What does any of this have to do with Twitter?

[dre]

I think we were talking about rewarding suicide bombers vs rewarding tweets. Not sure what you're talking about. However, it's interesting that you left out any other Middle East countries aside from Israel, that also possess armies that have killed millions. Probably just an oversight. *rolls eyes*

Reading not your forte huh?

[Rue]

Again though, killing an innocent child has a price, there is something that you would kill a child for its that simple. Maybe it will not be to save your child maybe it will be to save a hundred innocent children its plain and simple.

You asked earlier how one blows themselvs against their will... well simple the same way a Navy SEAL throws himself on to a grenade to save his friends. You hold a gun to my loved once I will blow myself wether I want to or not.... thats how.

Such as?

Yeah, because nothing was demanded of them. John Smith of Anytown USA might have grown up and had the same troubles as the average person and never had to make the decision, just because he didn't have to put a price on his actions doesn't mean there would be none...

And I didnt say anything about killing a little child did I? See how that works?

There is a price for everything. There is a way I can force you to commit any action, there is a price you will not be willing to pay for inaction, its that simple. It might be your family or your nation, or it might be your own life or money it is different to everyone. You are either thick in the head or pretending to be thick in the head but you have a price.

I dont know why I am arguing either, you are worse than bud... its like arguing with a wall... only this wall only spews self righteous bullshit.

Again though, killing an innocent child has a price, there is something that you would kill a child for its that simple. Maybe it will not be to save your child maybe it will be to save a hundred innocent children its plain and simple.

You asked earlier how one blows themselvs against their will... well simple the same way a Navy SEAL throws himself on to a grenade to save his friends. You hold a gun to my loved once I will blow myself wether I want to or not.... thats how.

Such as?

Yeah, because nothing was demanded of them. John Smith of Anytown USA might have grown up and had the same troubles as the average person and never had to make the decision, just because he didn't have to put a price on his actions doesn't mean there would be none...

And I didnt say anything about killing a little child did I? See how that works?

There is a price for everything. There is a way I can force you to commit any action, there is a price you will not be willing to pay for inaction, its that simple. It might be your family or your nation, or it might be your own life or money it is different to everyone. You are either thick in the head or pretending to be thick in the head but you have a price.

I dont know why I am arguing either, you are worse than bud... its like arguing with a wall... only this wall only spews self righteous bullshit.

You have equated a soldier throwing himself on a bomb to protect fellow soldiers and a terrorist who blows himself up to kill people.

One dies to save lives, the other to kill as many as possible and you can't tell the difference.

You have then the audacity to refer to yourself as a soldier and question American Women's morality?

You are trying to rationalize terrorism and your script has been called out by several forum members.

[Rue]

Every war veteran, every survivor of the holocaust or wars or civil turmoils they fled or escaped from, child abuse, drug addiction, alcoholism, domestic violence, those who deal with their disabilities and chronic illnesses, those are my teachers and I thank them for teaching me life has no price.

I never met a soldier who was able to spit at life and claim all life has a price. That kind of false macho bravado is b.s.

Only a sociopath or psychopath kills with no remorse.

I do not doubt though there are some very foolish people who try pose as tough guy killers. They have no idea what it is to go to bed with nightmares that never leave and blood that does not wash out of their hands otherwise they would not talk like that.

I cringe listening to this false bravado. It insults all survivors of life traumas.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Rue

[Rue]

I will detonate a nuke to save my family.

I will detonate a nuke to save my family.

No you would not. How am I so sure? Because you are saying their is no price to the value of your family's lives. That very reasoning would prevent you from mass murder. You find life precious.

Of course you want to protect your family. The very compassion that is in you to protect your family would make it impossible for you to mass murder.

Your intent to defend your famiily is honourable. You mistake your primal instinct to protect your family under duress with free choice.

Yes under duress we are all capable of doing horrendous things.

However if you were not compelled by duress you would never make such a choice.

I have been in a situation where I had to ask-kill one or save many. An act of fate prevented me from having to answer that question.

My honest answer to you is I probably would have frozen up and got myself and others killed because it was a child I was dealing with.

I would like to have thought I could have killed that child with no hesitation. I doubt it though.

People who kill out of free choice and people who kill under duress are in two different situations.

Its not fair to say a person compelled to kill is a cold blooded murderer-this is why I say what I do-I have seen really good people do horrible things and struggle after that fact with their decision to do what they did. I do not judge such people. I only can hope they learn to forgive themselves and are forgiven by others.

For those who kill because they really believe there is a price for everything-if such people exist, believe me they are exhibiting criminal

or sociopathic-psychopathic behaviour and such people I do not waste emotion on. In fact what worries me is I know I am capable of killing a sociopath. I have sat across a table from some. In cold, unemotional terms, I could kill them and not feel a thing. It scares me the amount of unemotional, calm, intense focus I have when looking into the eyes of certain people in the court system and could lower myself to their level.

Now I think some of you know what I mean. All I need say is Paul Bernardo. But I wonder. I think everytime we kill any life form no matter how right we think it is, it stays inside us unless we are totally insane.

In any event you may be honest but you are no killer.