Egypt's Arab Spring 2.0

[Boges]

Here's my question. In a Western Democracy, we have checks and balances so a zealous elected official can't give himself Emperor Palpatine type powers.

Egypt has a Supreme Court and a Legislator, where were they to stop Morsi. That's the beauty of a democracy, we don't need violence to effect change.

[g_bambino]

They removed the guy who would be a dictator for quite some time, and in the process move more to the Islamist side.

That's quite the foresight. How was one to know he'd become a dictator? The move toward the Islamist side was initiated by the voters.

[Boges]

That's quite the foresight. How was one to know he'd become a dictator? The move toward the Islamist side was initiated by the voters.

The Military has been the defacto dictator for the coming on 60 years. Apparently Morsi was trying to institute some civilian oversight over the military. Perhaps that's why they were so agreeable to give the guy the boot.

[g_bambino]

The Military has been the defacto dictator for the coming on 60 years. Apparently Morsi was trying to institute some civilian oversight over the military. Perhaps that's why they were so agreeable to give the guy the boot.

True (about the military being the actual chief executive). And possibly.

I'm fairly certain Mubarak would still be there if it'd been in the military's interests to keep him in office.

[ed.: +]

Edited July 4, 2013 by g_bambino

[-TSS-]

The ousting of Morsi could have a major impact on the Syrian civil-war as well as Morsi and his party supported the rebels and was contemplating intervening. That probably was the main reason why the Egyptian army threw him out. They don't want to be involved in Syria.

[AlienB]

We will know the end is near by the time of the year...

when the fig tree.....

et stellae caeli ceciderunt super terram sicut ficus mittit grossos suos cum vento magno movetur

obviously it will lead to...

.....

et caelum recessit sicut liber involutus et omnis mons et insulae de locis suis motae sunt

6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Edited July 4, 2013 by AlienB

[Hudson Jones]

"A military coup in Egypt yesterday resulted in the removal and imprisonment of the elected president, Mohamed Morsi, a closure of media outlets sympathetic to him, the house arrest of his advisors, and the suspension of the constitution. The military that overthrew Morsi is the main recipient of the $1.3 billion yearly US aid package to Egypt. You could say that the US 'owns' the Egyptian military that just overthrew its democratically-elected leader. "

http://tinyurl.com/qgmb7cz

Ron Paul is once again correct.

[Hudson Jones]

The ousting of Morsi could have a major impact on the Syrian civil-war as well as Morsi and his party supported the rebels and was contemplating intervening. That probably was the main reason why the Egyptian army threw him out. They don't want to be involved in Syria.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar are the main players supporting the opposition in Syria with their massive piggy banks. Egypt was not really a player, but only part of the Sunni unity voice against the Shiite Syrian leader.

The Egyptian military is part of the old system, who had a crucial role in keeping Mubarak in power for so long, and it saw an opportunity to jump in to gain more power. As someone mentioned earlier, Morsi had been working hard to get rid of the old system. In that process, he made moves which were contrary to what many of the people actually wanted.

I'm sure the Egyptian military will do their best to put in "their guy", but one thing is certain; The Egyptian people are no push-overs.

[DogOnPorch]

Morsi was calling for a Holy War in Syria involving the Egyptian Army. The Army said "no, thanks." That was Morsi's mistake...

[Guest Derek L]

Morsi was calling for a Holy War in Syria involving the Egyptian Army. The Army said "no, thanks." That was Morsi's mistake...

Any bets on where the Egyptian officer corps receives much of it’s training?

[DogOnPorch]

Any bets on where the Egyptian officer corps receives much of it’s training?

Not Syria...lol.

[dre]

Its the right move at this time.

They removed the guy who would be a dictator for quite some time, and in the process move more to the Islamist side.

That they removed him and let someone else, who by most accounts is a pretty good choice, be in power who will restore the constitution etc etc is a good thing.

No there would have been an election. Morsi was not a dictator... he did temporarily suspended the political process until a constitution could be passed, but the rest is hyperbole.

All this shows is that Egypt is a military dictatorship. End of story.

[jacee]

No there would have been an election. Morsi was not a dictator... he did temporarily suspended the political process until a constitution could be passed, but the rest is hyperbole.

All this shows is that Egypt is a military dictatorship. End of story.

It's the people telling the military what to do. Not your typical dictatorship.

[dre]

It's the people telling the military what to do. Not your typical dictatorship.

No its the military using some protests as an excuse to sieze power from an elected government.

Just because some people take to the streets does not mean they represent the will of the "people". Again... all we learned is that the "Arab Spring" changed nothing in Egypt, and its still a military dictatorship.

And things are about to get worse... The message this sends to the IB and its supporters, is that even if they participate in the political process and win... it wont count. You about to see even larger protests that are even more likely to cause violence.

Edited July 5, 2013 by dre

[dre]

The thing I picked up most from what you said was your bold prediction here. Let's see if it comes true.

Its already starting. The MB has labeled the coup illegal. As has the African Union which has booted Egypt out for unconstitutionally changing government.

Can help but notice the silence on the part of western powers which clearly should be in the business of discouraging military coups of elected governments.

This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. It will probably take a full scale civil war for Egyptions to truly free themselves of military rule.

[g_bambino]

It's the people telling the military what to do. Not your typical dictatorship.

Sorry, what?? In what way are "the people" telling the military what to do? A few million protesters is not "the people". And how are the protesters telling the military what to do?

The military in Egypt does as it pleases; whatever suits its purposes best. That's been the case for 50 years.

[dre]

http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/

This is about to get really really ugly, and when it does the fault lies squarely at the feed of the western backed Egyptian military.

[DogOnPorch]

More the Western bribed Egyptian Army rather than 'backed' or 'supported'. That's what the billions are for...so that Egypt doesn't 'accidentally' attack Israel. Lots of new toys marked Made In The USA are so that Egypt has the illusion that it is on par with the IDF...lol.

[dre]

More the Western bribed Egyptian Army rather than 'backed' or 'supported'. That's what the billions are for...so that Egypt doesn't 'accidentally' attack Israel. Lots of new toys marked Made In The USA are so that Egypt has the illusion that it is on par with the IDF...lol.

They also lent tacit approval to this military coup.

Man... that live video is worth a watch.

So far the miltiary is just sitting back and watching the mess they caused.

Edited July 5, 2013 by dre

[g_bambino]

More the Western bribed Egyptian Army rather than 'backed' or 'supported'. That's what the billions are for...so that Egypt doesn't 'accidentally' attack Israel. Lots of new toys marked Made In The USA are so that Egypt has the illusion that it is on par with the IDF...lol.

That seems more like it. The Egyptian military doesn't need money; it owns (through the Arab Organization for Industrialization) and operates manufacturing and supply companies of both military and civilian goods throughout the country, if not also beyond its borders.

[segnosaur]

http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/

This is about to get really really ugly, and when it does the fault lies squarely at the feed of the western backed Egyptian military.

Actually, the tipping point probably happened back in November, when Morsi removed the ability for the courts to over-rule his decisions. (In typical "western" democracies, there are typically various checks and balances to make sure that no particular group has "too much power". You want democracy, but you don't want the rights of the minorities to be quashed.) It should also be noted that in September he made a speech to the UN where he stated he would cut down on free speech. Those sorts of things are rather big red flags.

So far, the military has gone to great lengths to distance this from being a "power grab"... they've appointed a moderate as a temporary president, and appear to be appealing to a wide base of Egyptians. While not a guarantee, things do look hopeful.

[Wild Bill]

Actually, the tipping point probably happened back in November, when Morsi removed the ability for the courts to over-rule his decisions. (In typical "western" democracies, there are typically various checks and balances to make sure that no particular group has "too much power". You want democracy, but you don't want the rights of the minorities to be quashed.) It should also be noted that in September he made a speech to the UN where he stated he would cut down on free speech. Those sorts of things are rather big red flags.

So far, the military has gone to great lengths to distance this from being a "power grab"... they've appointed a moderate as a temporary president, and appear to be appealing to a wide base of Egyptians. While not a guarantee, things do look hopeful.

Makes sense, Steg! What really seems to be the base reason to oust Morsi is that the army and those western countries that support Egypt do not like the Moslem Brotherhood.

At the time of Morsi's election, he claimed he was NOT trying to institute an Islamist government! The choices to the Egyptian people were not that many and they had some divisions between those who wanted a secular government and those of a more religious bent.

Morsi portrayed himself as a good compromise, with no danger to the rights those championing the secular cause were expecting. However, once he got in he started doing exactly what he had promised he would not do! He started changing the legal system to give himself absolute power and began some moves towards Shaaria law!

To a secularist Egyptian, he was their worst fear come to pass! To the army, he meant a loss of support (money!) from western powers. To the business sector, he looked like he would make Egypt's tourist industry competitive with that of Iran or Iraq! No more western tourist on Egypt's beaches. No European women would take a vacation in Egypt if it meant they couldn't get a drink and worse yet, had to wear a burka!

Those who claim that this was an ouster of a democratically elected president are quite correct. However, the will of such a significant portion of Egypt's people cannot be ignored. It would appear that "the powers that be" want a democratically elected Egyptian government but ONLY a secular one!

Sadly, this might indeed lead to bloodshed. On one side we have those who want to keep their religion and their poltics separate. On the other side are those who want their religion to rule everyone in the country. We have no clear view of the numbers of either side but I suspect that the secularist supporters are in the majority. The Egyptian people for the most part are quite modern, educated in world affairs and intelligent.

However, their opponents have shown little or no hesitation in the use of violence.

We can only hope it plays out as painlessly as possible.

[DogOnPorch]

That seems more like it. The Egyptian military doesn't need money; it owns (through the Arab Organization for Industrialization) and operates manufacturing and supply companies of both military and civilian goods throughout the country, if not also beyond its borders.

It was all part of the Camp David Accords...Egypt got about 40 billion over the first 20 years and still gets about 1.3 billion a year not including random F-16 squadrons. Most of this goes to the Army who are more than aware that they're a glorious military...as long as there's no war with Israel and America remains happy. Morsi was threatening that rosy state of being in spades

[WWWTT]

It's the people telling the military what to do. Not your typical dictatorship.

Yes.

Many people here forget that public protest is A CORNERSTONE OF DEMOCRACY!!!!!

What is happening in Eygypt is a painful reminder of how twisted western democracy has become!

WWWTT

[-TSS-]

This latest turn of events is probably a sigh of relief for Israel. 30 years ago Anwar Sadat was murdered by the islamic brotherhood for signing a peace-treaty with Israel. Probably Israel feels safer that its next door neighbour is controlled by the army than belligerent civilians. Oh, the irony!