Should Marijuana Be Legal?

[jacee]

Has anyone actually been sentenced to 6 months yet? It often seems there's more smoke than fire around Harper's pot hoopla. Gives the base a nice little buzz I guess.

Wait for it ...

Now that Harper's turning medical pot production over to his corporate buddies and putting all the small independent medical growers out of business ... it won't be long until the police start raiding and sweeping them up and jailing them ... March 31 2014 to be exact.

There will be a lot of upset growers and customers: Different strains of pot work better for different health problems and combinations of conditions. Growers can address their clients specific needs. Mass corporate production isn't likely to be tailored to individual needs.

Edited October 8, 2013 by jacee

[On Guard for Thee]

Has anyone actually been sentenced to 6 months yet? It often seems there's more smoke than fire around Harper's pot hoopla. Gives the base a nice little buzz I guess.

Yet? Is that really important? I know a lawyer in YVR who deals with these cases, knows the new law and knows the docket. His estimation, if the new harper law was applied there could be somewhere around 4000 (yep thats four thousand) people enjoying the governments hospitality for that six month period. The cost both to them and to us as taxpayers is completely stupid. I notice the timing of a group of Chief's of Police acrtoss the country banding together and asking for another law that will allow cops to hand out something similar to a speeding or parking ticket to folks who happen to smoke a joint near where a cop happens to be strolling. At present they have two choices: either bust them and then it's a criminal record and all that crap, or just ignore it, which a lot of them do happilly. Generally it seems when the world zigs, Harper zags. I think we need someone up there who can read the wind and is not just looking for some cheap votes.

[johnny902]

Think of it with sensibility. We are approaching this like it's taboo, marijuana is not taboo in our culture.

How many tax dollars are we losing to crime? How much money could be made in taxation?

Prohibition was a failure, so is making marijuana illegal. It's a drug that will be used, will be sold, will be grown, until we find some cheap way to synthesize THC in someones closet.

It's the easiest drug for a minor to get their hands on. A person under 19 is more likely to find a marijuana dealer, than to find someone to sell them alcohol.

A quarter of high school students are stoned... What other drug lasts them hours and costs 5-20 dollars? Well, besides alcohol, nothing. It's affordable, and people do it. No denying it.

The effects marijuana has on the mind are considerable, but often exaggerated. Drugs don't deteriorate the mind in the essence they are shown.

Edited November 8, 2013 by johnny902

[ReeferMadness]

No. We don't need more intoxicated doped up paranoid people driving around on the roads. Studies have shown that Marijuana increases your chances of lung cancer almost to the same degree as tobacco. (see link below)

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/01/heavy-marijuana-smoking-may-double-risk-of-lung-cancer-canadian-study-finds/

As long as our health system is public - and my tax dollars are paying for it there is no way I would support it being legalized.

From your own link:

The consortium scrutinized results from six “case-control” studies that compared 2,100 cancer patients and 3,000 healthy controls, finding no significant link between marijuana and malignancy, the scientists told a conference in April.

Maybe the jury is still out on this.

[Guest Derek L]

Some further news on the legalize pot camp:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-pot-petition-fails-to-get-enough-signatures-1.2455465

The Sensible B.C. campaign had 90 days to collect signatures from 10 per cent of the registered voters in every single one of B.C.'s 85 ridings. That's 400,000 signatures, but the group says they will most likely fall short with only about 220,000 signatures.

I have to admit my surprise……..I thought pot users would be able to at least get enough support to trigger a referendum, but this must be a blow for their campaign…..Oh well, democracy at work I suppose.

[On Guard for Thee]

From your own link:

Maybe the jury is still out on this.

OK then, following that lead then as long as MY tax dollars are paying for a public health care system, I want alcohol and tobacco outlawed.

[Boges]

Apparently in Colorado the tax added to legal recreational pot will be 25%.

I wonder if those that are used to growing and smoking their own tax free will want to participate?

[Guest Derek L]

Apparently in Colorado the tax added to legal recreational pot will be 25%.

I wonder if those that are used to growing and smoking their own tax free will want to participate?

That’s one thing I’ve always wondered…….As I’ve said before, I’ve no issue with the legalization of pot, but will recreational users actually be willing to pay taxes on it, like tobacco and alcohol, if it were to become legal………

Perhaps another question worthy of asking well we’re on the subject, what are Trudeau’s plan for regulating and taxing a hypothetical, legal, marijuana industry?

[eyeball]

Hobby/recreational growers do pay taxes though on the things they buy like seeds, potting soil, electricity etc etc.

What part of get off folk's backs is that so many people in our society don't get, and more to the point why?

Edited December 9, 2013 by eyeball

[On Guard for Thee]

Hobby/recreational growers do pay taxes though on the things they buy like seeds, potting soil, electricity etc etc.

What part of get off folk's backs is that so many people in our society don't get, and more to the point why?

So here's whats goofy about how Harper is approaching it in my view: he's going to allow medical pot as long as you buy it from the government and of course they want the tax revenue which is fine with me, although the quality will likely go down at least initially. I'd certainly rather that than jailing people. However if I smoked tobacco I could quite legally grow my own, and I have certainly made numerous batches of wine and beer over the years, again quite legally. Of course I paid tax on the raw ingredients as you point out. I guess we have to be patient at times and accept evolution in baby steps

[Boges]

Hobby/recreational growers do pay taxes though on the things they buy like seeds, potting soil, electricity etc etc.

What part of get off folk's backs is that so many people in our society don't get, and more to the point why?

That's a cop out.

You would assume there'd have to be a sin tax added to recreational pot. Alcohol and tobacco both have taxes added above and beyond any normal VAT.

[eyeball]

That's a cop out.

You would assume there'd have to be a sin tax added to recreational pot. Alcohol and tobacco both have taxes added above and beyond any normal VAT.

How do they overtax sinners who who grow their own tobacco or make their own beer and wine?

[Boges]

How do they overtax sinners who who grow their own tobacco or make their own beer and wine?

Dunno, but who really grows there own tobacco for personal use?

Beer and wine is one thing, but no ones going to make their own single-malt scotch. Making good alcohol is a time consuming labour intensive process, not so with Ganj.

[eyeball]

Fine just stick to making beer and wine at home then. Is there a principle here or not? How do you burden people who make their own beer and wine with a sin tax, exactly how does the state and society communicate their moral displeasure to these reprobates?

I notice it's fashionable these days for distilleries and breweries to advertise the fact they operated through and survived prohibition, like it was some badge of honour. A little cheeky don't you think?

Edited December 9, 2013 by eyeball

[Boges]

Fine just stick to making beer and wine at home then. Is there a principle here or not? How do you burden people who make their own beer and wine with a sin tax, exactly how does the state and society communicate their moral displeasure to these reprobates?

Don't current sin taxes do that? You're consuming an icky mind/body altering substance so you must pay more.

The Wikipage for the Colorado law says that there will be significant taxes but doesn't say if it will be levied against grown pot. You are able to grow 6 plants. If you can grow it in a private home, why would anyone pay increase taxes on a product that never used to be taxed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Amendment_64_(2012)

Which is why JT's assertion that legalizing pot will be a revenue boon and it can be properly regulated doesn't hold any water.

I notice it's fashionable these days for distilleries and breweries to advertise the fact they operated through and survived prohibition, like it was some badge of honour. A little cheeky don't you think?

I only notice Sleeman doing that. It's a marketing ploy. There's some cache with 20/30's era gangsters recently. The HBO series Boardwalk Empires kind of glorifies it.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Boges

[GostHacked]

Dunno, but who really grows there own tobacco for personal use?

Beer and wine is one thing, but no ones going to make their own single-malt scotch. Making good alcohol is a time consuming labour intensive process, not so with Ganj.

The real question is why you cannot grow your own tobacco.

[Boges]

The real question is why you cannot grow your own tobacco.

Doesn't it grow in large fields. Perhaps you can but most people like their tobacco professional rolled or made into a cigarette. I don't see many people, in Canada anyway, that like loose leaf tobacco.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7013623_tall-plant-grow-one-year_.html

Nicotiana tabacum is grown in tubs for its showy flowers. When field-grown as a crop the tops are cut back to enlarge the bottom leaves. It grows up to 10 feet in a year.

Can't really grow that in an incubator in your basement like you can with Cheba can you?

Edited December 9, 2013 by Boges

[On Guard for Thee]

I guess I just like the idea of having options. If I want a single malt scotch I'm off to the liquor store. (Too much work and I don't have a still) But If I want to stock up my wine rack then maybe I go buy a wine kit and put that together. In both cases I pay taxes. Of course less for the latter, but in that scenario I put in some sweat equity. Why not the same for pot if I want some of that? I realize to be legal I need a note from my doctor, for now, but surely it won't be long before we go the same way as Washington and Colorado states and just legalize it, full stop. Then I think I should be able to just go buy some, or maybe some seeds and grow lights and do my own. Either case provides tax revenue that can be much better used than more jails.

[DFCaper]

Dunno, but who really grows there own tobacco for personal use?

Beer and wine is one thing, but no ones going to make their own single-malt scotch. Making good alcohol is a time consuming labour intensive process, not so with Ganj.

I do not think that growing your own Ganj would be as simple as you seem to believe. If you grow out doors, thief would likely happen.... It is very expensive to grow indoors... And the labour to grow, Dry and trim is probably way worst than you are imagining... Like homebrew, many will try it then buy at the local corner store

[WestCoastRunner]

I read an interesting article today regarding when marijuana was criminalized in Canada. It was in 1923. The U.S. followed suit 14 years later. However, the interesting part is that there was no debate in parliament over this issue, no evidence of public debate, no paper trail on why it was criminalized and no science behind the decision.

A final note in the article states: "Today, when protesters demand decriminalization, the federal government may be able to come up with reasons not to do so, but it would be hard-pressed to explain why it was criminalized in the first place."

A great reason to further the cause to decriminalize MJ.

[On Guard for Thee]

I read an interesting article today regarding when marijuana was criminalized in Canada. It was in 1923. The U.S. followed suit 14 years later. However, the interesting part is that there was no debate in parliament over this issue, no evidence of public debate, no paper trail on why it was criminalized and no science behind the decision.

A final note in the article states: "Today, when protesters demand decriminalization, the federal government may be able to come up with reasons not to do so, but it would be hard-pressed to explain why it was criminalized in the first place."

A great reason to further the cause to decriminalize MJ.

And maybe a good reason to for for Justin.

[WestCoastRunner]

And maybe a good reason to for for Justin.

Yes I was thinking the same.

[On Guard for Thee]

Yes I was thinking the same.

Pardon my apparent stutter, but at least you got my drift. Damn fingers!

[Traveller]

A final note in the article states: "Today, when protesters demand decriminalization, the federal government may be able to come up with reasons not to do so, but it would be hard-pressed to explain why it was criminalized in the first place."

A great reason to further the cause to decriminalize MJ.

Agreed. In a free society such as ours, we should not need a reason to make something legal but rather, government should need a reason to make something illegal. As you pointed out - that has never happened.

[jacee]

Canada's doctors decline to join anti-marijuana campaign

The main groups representing Canadian doctors have declared they will not participate in Health Canada's upcoming anti-drug campaign targeting young people.

The educational campaign has now become a political football on Canada's marijuana policy, said a joint statement released Saturday by the College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC), Canadian Medical Association (CMA) and Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada.

We did not, and do not, support or endorse any political messaging or political advertising on this issue.

And this is how STUPID AND DISGUSTING the Conservative political message is:

legalizing and controlling the drug ... would make it easier for children to get marijuana.

the Liberal leaders "first order of business is to make marijuana more accessible to minors," and that the Liberals "want to make buying marijuana a normal, everyday activity for young Canadians."

"more accessible to minors" ???!!

I'd sure like to see their 'research' on that!!!

Stupid dorks.

This is the most disgusting political spin I have ever seen.

Harper must think his political supporters are pretty friggin stupid to fall for that crap.

.