Should Marijuana Be Legal?

[cybercoma]

The point of talking about angry drunks is precisely the one that you made. In spite of there being angry drunks out there and problem drinkers, alcohol is still legal because people can and do consume it responsibly. Therefore, in spite of there being lazy potheads and problem smokers, pot should be legal because people can and do consume it responsibly.

[Keepitsimple]

This pretty well sums up what we've seen of Justin Trudeau so far.....

Justin hasn’t addressed any of those hard questions and that’s the way with Justin. He called for legalization and then vanished in that cloud of controversial smoke. The questions hang in the air never to be answered because he has already moved on to even newer things. Next he will declare the Arctic should be carbon free, no one should be mean, we should start every day by looking at a picture of a pony, we should imagine world peace, we should like the UN on Facebook.

He will drift on the lazy current of progressive opinion, giving off positive vibes and thinking good thoughts, but without ever explaining or engaging on the facts.

Nor will he seriously take up the mundane issues at the centre of western civilization. We know what he thinks about marijuana, but what about the economy, productivity, national security or safe streets? Some things are just way too boring and complicated.

Much better to flit in and out like a charming, mischievous elf; majoring on the minors, thrilling liberals and, in every sense, stirring the pot.

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/2013/08/04/up-in-smoke-trudeau-likes-the-idea-of-legalizing-pot-but-hasnt-answered-the-hard-questions-about-it

Edited August 6, 2013 by Keepitsimple

[Boges]

The point of talking about angry drunks is precisely the one that you made. In spite of there being angry drunks out there and problem drinkers, alcohol is still legal because people can and do consume it responsibly. Therefore, in spite of there being lazy potheads and problem smokers, pot should be legal because people can and do consume it responsibly.

I 100% agree.

I do think Legalization of pot will prove to have problems alcohol and tobacco don't have. The first being how easy it is to produce pot. If I can grow pot at home, why would I bother paying the government to produce a regulated and taxed version. Yes I know people make Beer and Wine at home but it's a lot more involved process than growing a plant, most people don't have the space or patience to ferment grapes or grains. Same with growing your own tobacco. I like cigars but making cigars at home isn't something I would try to do. Growing a pot plant or two is something that is a lot harder.

The other problem is the difficulty for testing people who try to operate heavy vehicles like say cars high.

[cybercoma]

It's not like people can't operate motor vehicles high now. It's already a problem. Whether it's legal or not, that won't change. Sure the government will lose revenue because people will grow pot at home, but they're not getting any revenue at all now. There will probably be people that couldn't be bothered planting and growing their own weed, so they'll buy it from licensed sellers. At least the government will get some revenue then. So imo these aren't reasons to keep it illegal at all.

You can bet your ass the government will try to make as much money as possible on this. They'll keep cops employed because they'll make growing plants at home illegal. You'll have to be a licensed grower and a licensed seller. They'll make all their coin off licensing. They'll also keep cops busting people that grow their own, so they can keep tax revenues up for enforcement purposes. Frankly, I think there should be absolutely no regulations whatsoever. It should simply be taxed like any other good you would buy in a store by a private seller. That's it, imo.

[Boges]

You can bet your ass the government will try to make as much money as possible on this. They'll keep cops employed because they'll make growing plants at home illegal. You'll have to be a licensed grower and a licensed seller.

Exactly! That's why legalization isn't this big liberation people think. Why not just decriminalize, effectively you'll get the same result. People who produce take on the risk of producing. (cuz I know they won't want to pay taxes) and you don't stand to enrage our largest trading partner to the south.

Most smokers I know illegally get their cigs off a reserve now. Governments tax products underground. So the argument that legalization will keep criminals out of the drug trade is a delusional one.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Boges

[guyser]

This pretty well sums up what we've seen of Justin Trudeau so far.....

Seems pretty close to what Harper said when he wasnt in power.

Ya know, that whole shoot off the mouth thing and never get pinned down.

Yawn.

[Boges]

It'll be really interesting if Trudeau 2.0 really wants to make this a wedge issue, since the CPC seem to have no interest in legalization.

[Black Dog]

I have a better idea than decriminalization or tax and regulate legalization. Complete legalization. Why should pot be any more restricted than, say, kale?

[Boges]

I have a better idea than decriminalization or tax and regulate legalization. Complete legalization. Why should pot be any more restricted than, say, kale?

Cuz no one lights kale on fire inhales the smoke and gets high off of it.

Wouldn't it be awesome if collard greens got you high?

[Black Dog]

Cuz no one lights kale on fire inhales the smoke and gets high off of it.

Wouldn't it be awesome if collard greens got you high?

And? Other than padding government coffers and enriching a few people, what benefit is there to tax and regulate?

[Boges]

And? Other than padding government coffers and enriching a few people, what benefit is there to tax and regulate?

Preaching to the choir. But if they're going to do it to liqour and tobacco, they'll do it to MJ.

[cybercoma]

They do it to "vice" goods because the demand is inelastic. They can tax it as much as they want and people hooked on them will still buy them. It's the same reason we pay so many taxes on gasoline. The people will still buy it regardless of the price.

[Boges]

They do it to "vice" goods because the demand is inelastic. They can tax it as much as they want and people hooked on them will still buy them. It's the same reason we pay so many taxes on gasoline. The people will still buy it regardless of the price.

Well with Alcohol you definitely have that effect. But with tobacco people are smoking a lot less largely due to price, and those that don't are going to counterfeit route.

People seem adamant that pot isn't addictive so if it's prohibitively priced it wouldn't be surprising to see people go the underground route or just not smoke pot. Of course it being illegal hasn't really stopped anyone.

[cybercoma]

Well with Alcohol you definitely have that effect. But with tobacco people are smoking a lot less largely due to price, and those that don't are going to counterfeit route.

Are people smoking less due to price or are they smoking less due to social stigma and health concerns? Econometric analysis shows that it's not because of price. People who smoke don't generally quit smoking when the price goes up.

People seem adamant that pot isn't addictive so if it's prohibitively priced it wouldn't be surprising to see people go the underground route or just not smoke pot. Of course it being illegal hasn't really stopped anyone.

If it's prohibitively priced, sure. But what do you mean by prohibitively priced? There's already a general pricing scheme for pot. I can't see the government taxing it such that licensed dealers would be selling it for 10x that price. That would be stupid. It's just like they don't make a pack of cigarettes $100 or a case of beer $400. When I say the demand is inelastic, it doesn't mean that people won't find alternatives at all. It just means that the fluctuation in price needs to be much, much greater than other items for people to find alternatives or stop buying them.

[PIK]

Even the star thinks justin is foolish to get involved. Not a good day for libs when the star is against you. lol

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/08/07/legalizing_pot_endorsing_stupidity_dimanno.html

[Keepitsimple]

Even the star thinks justin is foolish to get involved. Not a good day for libs when the star is against you. lol

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/08/07/legalizing_pot_endorsing_stupidity_dimanno.html

To compensate for Rosie's obvious insubordination, watch for them to publish a bunch of "letters to the Editor" that bash poor old Rosie's opinion.

[Black Dog]

To compensate for Rosie's obvious insubordination, watch for them to publish a bunch of "letters to the Editor" that bash poor old Rosie's opinion.

Does anyone take "poor old Rosie" seriously?

[PIK]

Does anyone take "poor old Rosie" seriously?

Well this was the 1st for me.

[Black Dog]

Well this was the 1st for me.

You understood that mess? I assumed she was actually still on heroin for this one article.

[The_Squid]

Rosie's thinking is ummm.... addled... By her logic, because there are alcoholics, then we should ban alcohol. After all, it has been shown to be a much more harmful drug to society than marijuana is... and drunks are often violent... kill people on our roads... etc, etc....

[jacee]

Black Dog, on 07 Aug 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:Does anyone take "poor old Rosie" seriously?

Well this was the 1st for me.

That should be a clue!

[On Guard for Thee]

Ponder this. If you don't smoke pot and they made it legal to do so tomorrow, would you all of a sudden start? And if you do smoke pot, does the fact it is illegal matter much as to how quick you can find a joint these days? The answer to both questions is probably NO. The biggest downside here is that if you are a bit sloppy in how you acquire the joint a cop can throw you in jail and then there are serious problems perhaps. Job, family, perhaps many other things can all suffer from something that is no more damaging, and in many cases less, than heading to the bar for a few beers.

[Social Justice]

Pot is not legal, but it is here. It isn't going anywhere and it is a multi-billion dollar industry that costs tax payers more every year. It represents a source of tax revenue that is as of this moment untouched by the government. Think of that for a minute, the government would rather tax the crap out of you to do something that has never been done and can never be done instead of making money to pay its expenses. Nice........

[FutureCanadian]

Marijuana should be legalized and most other drugs should be decriminalized with drugs being a public health issue. IMO.

[roy baty]

If they can roadside test for THC levels as reliable as breathalyzers then legalize it. Until then, decriminalize small amount possession until they can reliably test it roadside. Right now I think the best they have are saliva tests for the "presence" of it.. Unless that has changed, that is not a fair enough test.