Days of Riots in Stockholm

[Argus]

The riots are spreading, if you can get BBC world news they have been showing it. These countries need to get a grip somehow on this, France is still experiencing problems.

and in Holland problems are ongoing, similar to other Euro countries.

Our time will come.

Once Muslims reach a critical mass in the population, Scandinavians claim, they isolate themselves from the mainstream of society to develop a state within a state, complete with its own Sharia laws. Crime rates are also high among many Third World immigrants.

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/05/15/lawrence-solomon-immigration-backlash/

[Michael Hardner]

This "Muslim scourge" argument has been used before, but no one has been able to prove that people of this religion, across different cultures no less, will not assimilate except through specious arguments.

Since we're all so much in favour of anecdotal evidence: I work with a great number of Muslims who are productive and well assimilated members of society, and pretty much every south Asian I meet is gainfully employed/has strong family bonds.

Panhandlers are inevitably white males 18-65.

What does it mean ? Nothing. It's anecdotal.

I have lived in Europe and from my experience is that these societies are highly structured with barriers to entry and to assimilation.

[Guest]

And in my home town of Bradford there are Muslim areas where infidels fear to go, especially women, if they are not burkared up.

Anecdotal, of course.

[Michael Hardner]

And in my home town of Bradford there are Muslim areas where infidels fear to go, especially women, if they are not burkared up.

Anecdotal, of course.

Of course. There was a guy on this very board who claimed to be in a wheelchair, and was terrified about a Mosque in his town. I think he eventually was banned for general fakedom, but there you go.

I don't know how we can fix peoples' fears, though.

[-TSS-]

Perhaps in the USA and Canada the term "multiculturalism" is still interpreted in its original meaning. Here in Europe every time we hear that word we consider it just a gentler word for "islamisation" or otherwise monomaniac praise of everything to do with muslims and islams.

[Michael Hardner]

Really, your post is hyperbolic. There's no official policy of "Islamisation" in Europe, and no monomaniac praise of that religion prevalent in the dialogue. We're dealing with a changing world and the coming together of peoples.

Those who come here are looking for change, and Canada's government doesn't seem to be looking for substantial changes to the numbers of immigrants. Change is difficult, but the challenge seems less risky than putting up walls and dealing with a shrinking economy and trade barriers.

[Guest]

Of course. There was a guy on this very board who claimed to be in a wheelchair, and was terrified about a Mosque in his town. I think he eventually was banned for general fakedom, but there you go.

I don't know how we can fix peoples' fears, though.

I think Merlin was making it up.

I wasn't, though. By anecdotal, I mean I was told of those areas by friends and family. No links from the Beeb available.

They do exist, and the fears are quite justified.

[bush_cheney2004]

......Change is difficult, but the challenge seems less risky than putting up walls and dealing with a shrinking economy and trade barriers.

So does this mean no more CRTC "CanCon" rules or fear of "American style" this or that (aka "Americanization") ?

[-TSS-]

It is funny with these riots how the rioters always destroy their own neighbourhood, the place where they will still have to live after the riots. If the riots spread out to downtown-areas, be it London, Paris, NYC, Stockholm, how long do you think the police would just watch by? There would be a swift end.

Edited May 25, 2013 by -TSS-

[Michael Hardner]

So does this mean no more CRTC "CanCon" rules or fear of "American style" this or that (aka "Americanization") ?

SiriusXM Satellite radio seems to enjoy dominance of the Canadian airwaves. A US company... partnered with the CBC of course.

[bush_cheney2004]

SiriusXM Satellite radio seems to enjoy dominance of the Canadian airwaves. A US company... partnered with the CBC of course.

Does this mean that the "Americanists" have been more successful than the "Islamists" in Canada ?

"Sweden is the most Americanized country in the world. In second place comes the United States."

Edited May 25, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[scribblet]

And in my home town of Bradford there are Muslim areas where infidels fear to go, especially women, if they are not burkared up.

Anecdotal, of course.

You are right, it is happening; the link I posted about Holland addresses that and I have heard the same from relatives in the U.K. IMO there is a lot of denial and a large amount of whitewashing from those who don’t have to live with it. I understand the wish to not stereotype or broad brush a whole community, and the wish to not upset a particular group, but there are major problems in Europe which a lot of people like to deny.

We all know that the majority muslims are not doing this, but there are a large enough group of radical Islamists who should not be ignored. As Stockholm Riots Move Into Fifth Day, Press's Aversion to the M-Word ('Muslim') to Describe Those Involved Is Nearly Unanimous

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2013/05/24/stockholm-riots-move-fifth-day-presss-aversion-m-word-muslim-describe-th#ixzz2UJGv9KJg

http://www.aina.org/news/20130521123910.htm

http://sig.ville.gouv.fr/Atlas/ZUS/

Those places in France that the French state does not control

Update in French

http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/securite-la-liste-des-villes-que-l-etat-veut-securiser-04-08-2012-2113408.php

http://europenews.dk/en/node/46545

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/february/europes-multiculturalism-leading-to-civil-war-/

'No Go' Zones for Natives

In cities across Europe, only a massive police presence prevents open street warfare between groups. Paris police must keep a constant vigil like their counterparts in Sweden, Denmark and Britain.

[jbg]

Socialism doesn't work real well when it sucks in people with no work ethic. "From each according to their abilities" implies an ability and a willingness to contribute. "To each according to their needs" can fuel some very expansive needs; and reproductive habits.

The real problem for Swedes is their society was built on the idea that people would, for the most part, honestly seek work. It has functioned well for some time, but the immigrant Muslims are apparently quite happy to get paid to do nothing, and their participation in the work force is quite a bit lower while their use of social services is quite a bit higher.

Aren't we saying the same thing?

[jbg]

It is funny with these riots how the rioters always destroy their own neighbourhood, the place where they will still have to live after the riots. If the riots spread out to downtown-areas, be it London, Paris, NYC, Stockholm, how long do you think the police would just watch by? There would be a swift end.

I suspect that ordinary people, who the press will call "skinheads" will ultimately take matters into their own hands.

[Argus]

Those who come here are looking for change,

From my experience, what they're looking for is personal enrichment. They want to live in a wealthy, modern society with all the amenities, as well as social order.

But they'd really, really, really prefer it was much more like their own culture, the one they left behind.

And quite a few of them are befuddled and unhappy with the concept that people whose views are different than theirs are allowed to freely express those views.

Mind you, quite a few on the left side of the political spectrum are almost as unhappy with that concept.

[Argus]

Aren't we saying the same thing?

Not really. You were suggesting socialism wasn't viable. I was saying it was, but not with the immigrants they have let in. Kick out all the immigrants and it will be fine.

[GostHacked]

How did they get the Tunisians and the Algerians to start it for them?

Subversion comes in all forms.

[jbg]

Not really. You were suggesting socialism wasn't viable. I was saying it was, but not with the immigrants they have let in. Kick out all the immigrants and it will be fine.

I tend to agree but in modern times, excluding people from the Third World is easier said than done.

[Pliny]

Not really. You were suggesting socialism wasn't viable. I was saying it was, but not with the immigrants they have let in. Kick out all the immigrants and it will be fine.

It isn't viable from all the experiences in history. It may have some short lived benefits for some but usually doesn't last past the second generation. Socialism is about creating the world you would like to see. Eventually you realize that other socialists don't seem to be co-operating and, in common with yourself, are busy creating the world they would like to see, but it seems different than what you had in mind, at that point you realize socialism can't ever work.

[Hudson Jones]

They do exist, and the fears are quite justified.

Can you share the names of these neighbourhoods?

[jbg]

Can you share the names of these neighbourhoods?

Malmo, pretty much the entire city, for one.

[Guest]

Can you share the names of these neighbourhoods?

The Manningham lane, Oak lane areas come immediately to mind.

Do you not believe me?

Edited May 27, 2013 by bcsapper

[Hudson Jones]

The Manningham lane, Oak lane areas come immediately to mind.

Do you not believe me?

I hope you understand that it's difficult for me to take what you say seriously when you try to justify and promote comments and ideas of a racist piece of sh*t like Pam Geller. Someone who most ethnic organizations, including Jewish groups distance themselves from. Someone who is backed by a racist terrorist organization like JDL.

That said, I can believe the fear that you may have but usually, a lot of these race and ethnic based fears are unjustified. They stem from ignorance, misinformation and support-at-all-cost tribalism and zealotry.

Are you talking about Bradford, England? How about some context that you can share? News pieces?

[eyeball]

Mind you, quite a few on the left side of the political spectrum are almost as unhappy with that concept.

The more I read these sorts of posts that try to describe what it is that Leftists are or want the less I feel like I don't know myself.

Recall that thread Leftists Want to Change the Name of "Victoria Day" ...who knew?

Well will you look at that, someone must have been unhappy with the name of a thread about all the changes and things leftists want changed...and changed it! Must have been another one of them lefties I guess.

Edited May 27, 2013 by eyeball

[Guest]

I hope you understand that it's difficult for me to take what you say seriously when you try to justify and promote comments and ideas of a racist piece of sh*t like Pam Geller. Someone who most ethnic organizations, including Jewish groups distance themselves from. Someone who is backed by a racist terrorist organization like JDL.

That said, I can believe the fear that you may have but usually, a lot of these race and ethnic based fears are unjustified. They stem from ignorance, misinformation and support-at-all-cost tribalism and zealotry.

Are you talking about Bradford, England? How about some context that you can share? News pieces?

Remember, I had never heard of Pam Gellar until you mentioned her, and her only recommendation to me was that she disagreed with you. That seems a reasonable position for anyone to take. I still have not read or heard anything by her.

Your second paragraph is so condescending as to be unworthy of a reply. Ironic too, given that you try to defend radical Islam by invoking "ignorance, misinformation and support-at-all-cost tribalism and zealotry" on the part of others.

Yes, Bradford, England. What news pieces?

Edited May 27, 2013 by bcsapper