PMO paid for Duffy's fraud

[waldo]

Just back to Mac Harb for a second

who changed the channel? Oh right, who gave Simple the remote?

[PIK]

oh really? As most of the "crazed media" present it, Harper Conservatives grew weary of that mundane parliamentary debate on their Senate Reform Act... so Harper Conservatives punted it on up to the Supreme Court to decide on such tiresome things as whether provinces have any say... or the constitution needs to be amended... or... . But hey now PIK, since you're so tapped in (apparently), will it be a Harper Conservative led reform... or abolition... of the Senate? In your "which he will", which one will he..... reform or abolition?

We need a senate, it just needs to be clean up. The senate does keep the government in check as they say ,second sober thought.

[waldo]

The senate does keep the government in check as they say ,second sober thought.

apparently, you have reservations over Duffy's sober thought.

[waldo]

from yesterday's Duffy defense before the Senate:

Duffy said Harper told him, in the presence of his then chief of staff Nigel Wright, it was the perception of the "base" that was important, not what Duffy said about his own innocence.

"The prime minister wasn't interested in explanations or the truth. 'It's not about what you did, it's about the perception of what you did that's been created in the media. The rules are inexplicable to our base''' Duffy said.

Duffy made it clear the meeting in question was between "just the three of us," and that it was Harper, not Wright, who provided the political solution that Duffy's expenses must be repaid.

He was told if he didn't comply, Conservative Senators David Tkachuk and Carolyn Stewart Olsen would issue a press release saying he was ineligible to sit in the Senate because he was not a true resident of P.E.I.

When Duffy complained he didn't even have the money to repay expenses, he related, "Nigel Wright said, 'Don't worry, I'll write the cheque.'"

Duffy related, once the news of the cheque became known, the Prime Minister's Office reneged on its deal with him. "The PMO came back with a vengeance", he said, "the deal was off."

Duffy implicated the prime minister's current chief of staff, Ray Novak, saying Novak phoned him at his home in P.E.I. and said if he didn't resign from Conservative caucus, he would be thrown out.

Novak, Duffy said, threatened him further, telling him he would have to appear before the Senate ethics committee and would likely be expelled from the Senate.

The Government Senate Leader Marjory LeBreton was also on the call. "You've got to do this Mike, do what I'm telling you, quit the caucus within the next 90 minutes. It is the only way to save your paycheque,” LeBreton said, according to Duffy.

Duffy also said the deal for him to accept $90,000 and to promise, in return, to be publicly contrite about repaying the money, was negotiated between "the several lawyers involved who were taking instructions from their clients — lawyers for the PMO, for the Conservative Party and me."

[PIK]

Harper has done this before , remember Helena Guergis . It is not like he has never went after someone who screwed up.

[PIK]

apparently, you have reservations over Duffy's sober thought.

I would never have thought duffy would be at the centre of something like this. But that is politics. I am waiting for the donahue thing to come out. That 65g's will be very interesting and I want to here what duffy has to say about that..

[hitops]

Anybody who broke the law here should be punished for the sake of the system integrity. That includes the boss. It probably would not change my vote as the party policies are ultimately what affect my life and country, not the actions of individual senators. Would certainly be nice for a politician or two to go to jail for corruption once in awhile.

I think there is probably loads of this stuff throughout the senate. Can't wait until everyone's expenses are reviewed.

[cybercoma]

Duffy has little if any credibility left. I don't believe anything that his lawyer is alleging.

I do. It sounds perfectly reasonable. What don't you believe about it? I've been saying from Day 1 that we need to question why this money was approved. How did they get paid for inappropriate expenses if they were indeed against the rules?

Here's the blanks that I'm going to fill in from my own opinion. Nigel Wright paid off Duffy because he (Duffy) blackmailed Harper when it came to light. He told Harper that he wasn't going to pay the money back and would go to his media connections and let them know that Harper's office approved his expenses. Harper then told Duffy that he could get the money from the Conservative fund through Wright, but he (Duffy) would have to step down and disappear from the spotlight. Harper decided that wasn't enough and decided to use Duffy to score political points, making Duffy the scapegoat for all things wrong with the Senate. So that's when Duffy decided he was no longer going to play ball with Harper and the PMO. And now you have Duffy making good on his initial blackmail to Harper.

[Smallc]

I would have to have that proven before I'd believe it. Right now I don't.

[cybercoma]

I'm just saying that's what I suspect happened. It makes sense given Harper's pragmatism and it also makes sense why Brazeau and Whalen would claim similar inappropriate expenses. We'll see how it pans out, but this ought to go to court for a full investigation.

[Smallc]

Or, the three of them are just completely dishonest people...that's also a possibility. I agree that a full investigation is needed. I also think that Harper should seriously consider stepping aside at some point before the next election, probably soon. Even if he did nothing wrong, this will tarnish him and his reputation.

[cybercoma]

Or, the three of them are just completely dishonest people...that's also a possibility. I agree that a full investigation is needed. I also think that Harper should seriously consider stepping aside at some point before the next election, probably soon. Even if he did nothing wrong, this will tarnish him and his reputation.

Of course they're dishonest, but Duffy's going to look pretty damn stupid if he claims they have emails and documentation on this stuff and that documentation doesn't actually exist.

[Moonlight Graham]

speaking of... will the "master tactician" Harper pull a McGuinty over Duffygate?

You mean prorogue the legislature to avoid questions?...Again!!

[PIK]

I'm just saying that's what I suspect happened. It makes sense given Harper's pragmatism and it also makes sense why Brazeau and Whalen would claim similar inappropriate expenses. We'll see how it pans out, but this ought to go to court for a full investigation.

As the deloit audit they said it was very hard to figure out the rules. And harper just said in QP a few minutes ago duffy is full of shit, but not exactly in those words.

[cybercoma]

Of course he did. So it stands to reason that Harper is a lousy leader since he made some pretty idiotic appointments to the Senate.

[Smallc]

Of course he did. So it stands to reason that Harper is a lousy leader since he made some pretty idiotic appointments to the Senate.

Yes, that doesn't need to be proven anymore I don't think. Harper makes terrible appointments.

[GostHacked]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Prime+Minister+Stephen+Harper+carefully+constructed+house+cards/9068755/story.html

There is a short vid on the site.

So, that’s it then: The Senate expense scandal is now a mortal threat to Prime Minister Stephen Harper‘s career, and the future electoral prospects of his Conservative government. And all it took, astonishingly, was two of the “accused,” Sen. Mike Duffy and Sen. Patrick Brazeau, standing up in the Red Chamber and telling, just for a few minutes apiece, their side of the story.

Sen. Pamela Wallin is still to come. But the floodgates have opened. In a sense, this is now just the start. From a PMO tactical point of view, it is a calamity.

When the history of this tawdry episode is written, this decision — whether it was made by PMO officials, or Conservatives in the Senate, or Harper himself — to seek to cut Duffy, Brazeau and Wallin loose, without pay and without due process, may well go down as the very worst in a cascade of catastrophically bad decisions. Harper must now address allegations of corruption, conspiracy, and strong-arming by his office, tantamount to blackmail. The base, one suspects, will not be pleased.

Out of all the scandals and price tags associated with them, it would be hilarious for these people to do down for only a few hundred thousand dollars. How many other senators are cooking their expense books? And who is allowing these expenses to go through? Where are the checks and balances?

[Topaz]

Harper was asked several times if he would say the he been saying under oath and ...he didn't answer the question. That is exactly what Canadians need, a hearing where all concerned are under oath to answer ALL questions. I think the most confusing now is, that the senators have said that their expenses had been cleared and IF they were, then why the threat?? Because Harper was worried about the Conservative base not supporting him or the party. IF, it comes out that Duffy and the other senators are not in the wrong and certain Tories wanted them gone.......will Harper resign or will he let the party go down like Mulroney did when the election comes???? BTW, any PM that allowed his party to bribe a MP for his vote, can't be a honest truth worthy PM is was trying to make himself out to be today in QP.

[cybercoma]

That is exactly what Canadians need, a hearing where all concerned are under oath to answer ALL questions.

I thought you were TimG and got confused as to why I was agreeing with him.

[jacee]

Yes, that doesn't need to be proven anymore I don't think. Harper makes terrible appointments.

I'm sure he's saying that to himself today.

Duffy's soaring, incendiary send-up of Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his closest confidantes was the most riveting political theatre the capital has seen in years and it wasn't even televised.

http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/index.html

[scribblet]

Note that the last few weeks/months the left thought Duffy was a lying you know what, but now he’s a really credible source of information who should be taken completely at his word.

[Smallc]

Note that the last few weeks/months the left thought Duffy was a lying you know what, but now he’s a really credible source of information who should be taken completely at his word.

I'm not sure about 'the left', but yeah, I have a real problem with taking Duffy at his word after what we KNOW he did. Any allegations against Harper are coming from people that seem to be trying to save their own skin after their own dishonesty. There's no question Harper has been incompetent with his appointments, but I'm not ready to label him a criminal based on the allegations of some very shady characters.

[jacee]

Harper was asked several times if he would say the he been saying under oath and ...he didn't answer the question.

Interesting.

BTW, any PM that allowed his party to bribe a MP for his vote, can't be a honest truth worthy PM is was trying to make himself out to be today in QP.

You're talking about Cadman?

Cadman bribe tape wasn't doctored as Harper has claimed

Edited October 23, 2013 by jacee

[scribblet]

That's the problem, this all seems to be more about trying to bring down the gov't over 90k while real achievements are overshadowed.

Talking about criminal. The RCMP allege ex-Sen. Mac Harb committed fraud re: expenses, and still no more on the other Liberal Senator Collin Kenney who abused his expenses.

Don't know about incompetent, what indications are there that Wallin and Duffy would abuse their expense accounts, none that I know of. Brazeau, dunno, he had achievements and is Native which was a good thing for Senate appts. and representation.

Did Chretien know about Mac Harb et al., was Trudeau incompetent for appointing Kenny, What about Raymond Lavigne I bet if a full audit were to be done on all Senators there would a few more squirming, but does that make all the PMs who appointed them incompetent ? I just think that this is minor and is just turning into a feeding frenzy with the sole purpose of unseating Harper, not really because anyone cares about Senate ethics.

[guyser]

I just think that this is minor and is just turning into a feeding frenzy with the sole purpose of unseating Harper, not really because anyone cares about Senate ethics.

Plenty of people think it is minor, the money part that is, but the rest of the people see the strong arm tactics, the threats, the lying , the payoffs as something far bigger in this wonderfully open and honest govt .

It also appears to many that Harper was lying thru his teeth about not knowing the deal arranged, and anyone who thought otherwise is partisan, ignorant and a political newbie. Harper knew about the deal before anyone else did. Same way all past PM's would know about PMO scandals, proving that is the hard part.

Hope Duffy and his lawyer have the goods on paper, cuz Duffy is not the credible person some thought he was.