PMO paid for Duffy's fraud

[TimG]

If Harper arranged to pay off Duffy to shut up, that is the issue.

Duffy is not even alleging this. Duffy is claiming Harper told him to pay it pack or lose his job. The claims that more happened are really nothing but partisan muckraking.

It is like saying there is no evidence that Harper robbed a bank but we are going to claim that Harper *might* have robbed bank and get all indignant about this "bank robbery" that did not actually take place.

This issue is about a greedy senator and partisan muckracking - nothing more.

Edited October 24, 2013 by TimG

[On Guard for Thee]

Duffy is not even alleging this. Duffy is claiming Harper told him to pay it pack or lose his job. The claims that more happened are really nothing but partisan muckraking.

It is like saying there is no evidence that Harper robbed a bank but we are going to claim that Harper *might* have robbed bank and get all indignant about this "bank robbery" that did not actually take place.

This issue is about a greedy senator and partisan muckracking - nothing more.

Apparently you didn't listen too well, Duffy alleged that he, Harper, and Wright, all met in the PMO and cooked up this deal and the out come was Nigel saying "I'll write the check" and "Just The Three of us"

Obviously all that remains to be proven. But that's what was alleged.

[On Guard for Thee]

Duffy is not even alleging this. Duffy is claiming Harper told him to pay it pack or lose his job. The claims that more happened are really nothing but partisan muckraking.

It is like saying there is no evidence that Harper robbed a bank but we are going to claim that Harper *might* have robbed bank and get all indignant about this "bank robbery" that did not actually take place.

This issue is about a greedy senator and partisan muckracking - nothing more.

A bank may not have been robbed, but a check did get written. All the hubbub very simply boils down to the circumstances that produced that check.

[TimG]

Apparently you didn't listen too well, Duffy alleged that he, Harper, and Wright, all met in the PMO and cooked up this deal and the out come was Nigel saying "I'll write the check" and "Just The Three of us"

You are quoting out of context. The meeting with Harper was not the same as the meeting where Wright agreed to 'cut the check'. All Duffy alleges is there were back room deals negotiated by people in the PMO to minimize the publicity that came out.

There are 2 things to remember about this "scandal":

1) Duffy did not technically break the vague rules and if he was tried in a court of law instead of by the media he would likely be found innocent.

2) Because of 1) the machinations by the PMO were not trying to 'subvert justice' - all they were trying to do is manage the media blow back from the story - slimy but not a scandal.

If it could be shown that 1) is not true and that Duffy intentionally defrauded the public (to the point where he could be convicted in court) then the PMO attempts to cover up would amount of subversion of justice and would be a real scandal. But at this is not a likely scenario at this point.

Edited October 24, 2013 by TimG

[waldo]

I also (on this site) came to the “defence” of the late Jack Layton in several threads we had on this site over the revelation of his visit to a massage parlour, namely opining that I’d hoped he had a decent lawyer and how vile I thought the smear was…….

would that be the same smear you're now perpetuating with this comment?

And even if what Duffy says was true, I wouldn't blame the Prime Minister, PMO and other Conservative members for putting the gears to the Senator.

oh really... not a big fan of due process then, hey? Wallin hit it home today with a most pointed call asking all Senators to put aside their partisan zeal and respect the need for due process in properly reviewing the allegations/evidence brought against her (and by inference, Duffy and Brazeau). What's the rush? Why the need to ram the expulsions through the Senate in such a manner? Was the intent to have this all wrapped up before the big convention you keep hyping?

purely aimed to help the floundering Harper Conservatives, the waldo suggests keeping Conservative Senator Marjory LeBreton as far away from a microphone/camera as possible! Her gossipy, self-serving cya act was doubly numbing coming directly after Wallin's most eloquent defense.

[On Guard for Thee]

You are quoting out of context. The meeting with Harper was not the same as the meeting where Wright agreed to 'cut the check'. All Duffy alleges is there were back room deals negotiated by people in the PMO to minimize the publicity that came out.

There are 2 things to remember about this "scandal":

1) Duffy did not technically break the vague rules and if he was tried in a court of law instead of by the media he would likely be found innocent.

2) Because of 1) the machinations by the PMO were not trying to 'subvert justice' - all they were trying to do is manage the media blow back from the story - slimy but not a scandal.

If it could be shown that 1) is not true and that Duffy intentionally defrauded the public (to the point where he could be convicted in court) then the PMO attempts to cover up would amount of subversion of justice and would be a real scandal. But at this is not a likely scenario at this point.

Uh, no. If Harper was a part of cutting a check for the purposes of shutting Duffy up, that's criminal right there, regardless of Duffy's expense account.

[TimG]

Uh, no. If Harper was a part of cutting a check for the purposes of shutting Duffy up, that's criminal right there, regardless of Duffy's expense account.

A no. Frivolous lawsuits are often settled with a check and a gag order - simply because the people being sued want to keep it quiet. There is absolutely nothing illegal about that. The only thing that would make it illegal is if the money was used to cover up illegal activities.

[Topaz]

What about the information that came out before we heard about Wright's pay-off that the party was going to pay to get this over with fast. What happen to that info.? Did the lawyers say no and so they had to come up to another plan. As far as Harper knowing, I can't imagine Harper going home and his wife asking what's happening and he says I don't know. Harper has said many times , she his best adviser.

[TimG]

What about the information that came out before we heard about Wright's pay-off that the party was going to pay to get this over with fast.

There may have been discussions of using party money but discussions are not illegal or even unethical. What matters are the actions. In this case, the action was a personal check from Wright to Duffy to allow him to pay pack expenses which he was entitled to claim under the rules but could not because of the irrational media circus. In return, Duffy would stop stirring up the media.

Is this illegal? Perhaps there is a general rule that applies to gifts given to government officials but such rules would apply to Duffy to and he would be incriminating himself with his statements so I assume his lawyer has concluded he is not in jeopardy (i.e. a simple gift is not in itself illegal).

That is why I say there is only an issue if the gift was to cover up illegal activities and so far that appears to not be the case.

Edited October 24, 2013 by TimG

[waldo]

Is this illegal?

NP journalist Coyne suggests a breaking of the law:

The issue is not, then, the prime minister’s insistence that Duffy repay his expenses, or any threats that may have accompanied it, but everything that came afterward: not only the secret payment, but the campaign of deceit that followed, involving not only the prime minister’s chief of staff, but several others in his office, and a number of prominent Senators to boot — the stonewalling of the auditors, the doctoring of the Senate committee’s report, and on and on.

Whether the prime minister knew about it is frankly secondary. On this, the prime minister has been unequivocal from the start; again, I suspect he is content for this to be the focus. While it would surely be fatal if he were found to have lied about this, it remains a scandal even if he didn't. Somehow a number of people around the prime minister absorbed the idea that it was okay to break the law to make an embarrassing political problem go away. That’s deeply troubling, whatever he told them, or they him.

[PIK]

LOL If people here think the conservative base is going to vote trudeau or mulcair over this is dreaming. This is being blown out of porortion big time. Don't want to have harper get any credit for that huge deal with europe, so the media is going to make sure that does not get any air time. Canadians are not stupid. The 3 stooges are now in panic mode and will say and do anything to save thier benefits. Look at duffy worried about his health care. And if trudeau wants harper to do it under oath then I want trudeau to tell canadians that he ONLY smoked dope 6 times under oath. Duffy is toast and in 2 years when the deficit is paid the country is rolling along, this will be totally forgotten.

[Boges]

Short of Wright admitting as much. How can anyone prove Harper knew about the payoff? People are going to make up their mind regardless.

[guyser]

Incredible that some here are blaming the media.

Boges you are right, Harper knew full well all the details, but proving it will be nigh impossible. Not even up for debate really.

[PIK]

Incredible that some here are blaming the media.

Boges you are right, Harper knew full well all the details, but proving it will be nigh impossible. Not even up for debate really.

And how do you know that ??? The main job of a chief of staff is to protect the PM from this sort of stuff. In others words they don't tell him certain things ,so he can say he knew nothing. And as harper said if he knew it, he would have stopped it. You would think someone as educuted as you would have known this sort of thing. And yes I blame the media?for alot of the BS floating around out there. They sure are ignoring the europe deal, why? Because they will not give harper any credit for anything. A deal that will be worth billions, but yet all focus is on a so called scandal about 90g's.

Edited October 24, 2013 by PIK

[guyser]

And how do you know that ???

Common sense. Add a little of the well known Harper control issues and anyone can see it...except those who cover their eyes.

The main job of a chief of staff is to protect the PM from this sort of stuff. In others words they don't tell him certain things ,so he can say he knew nothing. And as harper said if he knew it, he would have stopped it. You would think someone as educuted as you would have known this sort of thing.

Well. my education is such that I know there has to be plausible deniability , but that doesnt not mean he didnt knowm and he most certainly had to have known.

But all the meetings ended with " I wasnt here and dont know this. Right? "

And yes I blame the media?for alot of the BS floating around out there. They sure are ignoring the europe deal, why? Because they will not give harper any credit for anything. A deal that will be worth billions, but yet all focus is on a so called scandal about 90g's.

Of course you do. Its what you always do even in the face of damning evidence or smarts. It is your go to position on absolutely everything to do with the guys you support.

Just look at your silly opinion that the media is ignoring the europe deal.Anyone , other than you of course , would look into that allegation first before shooting from the lip and subsequently getting residue all over your face.

958 news articles covering the Can-EU deal, from every single newspaper and TV stattion in this country to London , The US, Ireland.....

But hey, dont disappoint anyone, keep blaming the media.

[cybercoma]

1) Duffy did not technically break the vague rules

Then why was the PMO paying off a Senator? You know that in and of itself is illegal, right?

[cybercoma]

A no. Frivolous lawsuits are often settled with a check and a gag order - simply because the people being sued want to keep it quiet. There is absolutely nothing illegal about that. The only thing that would make it illegal is if the money was used to cover up illegal activities.

So bribing a Senator to get him to shut up isn't illegal. You sure about that?

[cybercoma]

LOL If people here think the conservative base is going to vote trudeau or mulcair over this is dreaming.

Nobody said that. What the Conservative base will do is stay home on election day, if they're mad enough at Harper. Of course, there will always be the blind partisans that will show up and cast their support for the lies, fraud, and complete lack of results on the economy that has defined this majority government.

[cybercoma]

Common sense. Add a little of the well known Harper control issues and anyone can see it...except those who cover their eyes.

Even Wente, the most partisan conservative commentator in the business, sees how bad this is for Harper.

As for Mr. Harper, his motto is vengeance first, justice later. That’s why a two-bit scandal over dubious expense claims has morphed into a hideous embarrassment and profoundly shaken his government.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/tales-of-blackmail-and-betrayal-on-the-rideau/article15032413/

[guyser]

Even Wente, the most partisan conservative commentator in the business, sees how bad this is for Harper.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/tales-of-blackmail-and-betrayal-on-the-rideau/article15032413/

That she did.

[guyser]

And now....now Harper admits to more than 'one person' knowing about the deal . Damn dude, if you cant remember what you said before, then dont change the facts now.

Dumb is as dumb does . Lying only makes it worse, but then again, politicians have no truth meter.

Where there was once just Nigel Wright, the prime minister said for the first time Thursday that a “few” people knew of the scheme to pay Sen. Mike Duffy $90,000 for his questionable housing expenses

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/24/stephen-harper-now-says-a-few-people-knew-about-nigel-wright-payment-to-mike-duffy/

[waldo]

And now....now Harper admits to more than 'one person' knowing about the deal . Damn dude, if you cant remember what you said before, then dont change the facts now.

Dumb is as dumb does . Lying only makes it worse, but then again, politicians have no truth meter.

Where there was once just Nigel Wright, the prime minister said for the first time Thursday that a “few” people knew of the scheme to pay Sen. Mike Duffy $90,000 for his questionable housing expenses

the moxie of the Official Opposition Leader, Thomas Mulcair... has he no limits, no qualms, no respect!!!

How many is a few?

[scribblet]

Golly gee - Can you imagine how powerful the conspiracy stories would have been had it been supported by documentation? But really, when do we get to see Mulcair questioning Mike Duffy, demanding he produce documents backing conspiracy claims?

[waldo]

today, the Quebec Court of Appeal, in a narrow focused ruling on the constitutionality of Harper Conservatives 'Senate Reform Bill - C7', ruled the bill is unconstitutional... that the Harper Conservative government has no right, under Bill C-7, to create Senate elections and set term limits without seeking provincial approval. Feel the burn PIK, feel the burn!

[guyser]

Golly gee - Can you imagine how powerful the conspiracy stories would have been had it been supported by documentation?

What conspiracy?

But really, when do we get to see Mulcair questioning Mike Duffy, demanding he produce documents backing conspiracy claims?

How about never?

FYI, ones in Parl as an MP, the other in the senate.