Liberal-New Democrat Alliance to Topple Harper

[DFCaper]

Uh, do you recall how the Conservative government retained the confidence of the House of Commons between 2005 and 2011? If you and hundreds of thousands are "A-OK" with Harper, you must all be "A-OK" with his budgets' spending of money at the behest of the Liberal and NDP majority in the House of Commons on whose support the Conservative government relied in order to stay in office, just like the situation for the Liberal government in Ontario today. You can't outlaw minority government.

I thought the minority governments under Harper and Martin were the worst governments. Since pending and buy voters with the next generation money.

[Topaz]

I don't think this time around we need an alliance between the NDP and Liberals because the Tories are destroying themselves. Just go into any coffee shop and ask how many would support the Tories, especially since that last election and Pierre Poutine arrival. No fed party has been able to touch the CPP, EI or any other social programs and survive the next election,. I'm sure the Tories will do everything they can to make people forget but with not knowing where 3 Billion is, its a lot more than the 40 Mil the Liberals lost the election over. I think the only questions are, next election minority or majority, NDP or Liberal??

[Newfoundlander]

I was wonder how many Liberal and NDP supporters would support a temporary coalition of the two parties for the 2015 election to topple Harper. They could split the ridings in half and only run NDP candidates in one half and Liberal in the other. I'd support that measure. It would guarantee that Harper would be voted out of office because 60 per cent of Canadians oppose Harper. We have a poll regarding this question on our forum at antiharper.com. Feel free to join, its free, and vote in the poll.

http://www.antiharper.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=39

Well less than 12% of Liberal "supporters" voted for Joyce Murray in the leadership race and 16% voted for Nathan Cullen on the first ballot in the NDP leadership race.

Why not a Liberal/CPC coalition to make sure Mulcair doesn't become Prime Minister?

Edited May 9, 2013 by Newfoundlander

[Newfoundlander]

I don't think this time around we need an alliance between the NDP and Liberals because the Tories are destroying themselves. Just go into any coffee shop and ask how many would support the Tories, especially since that last election and Pierre Poutine arrival. No fed party has been able to touch the CPP, EI or any other social programs and survive the next election,. I'm sure the Tories will do everything they can to make people forget but with not knowing where 3 Billion is, its a lot more than the 40 Mil the Liberals lost the election over. I think the only questions are, next election minority or majority, NDP or Liberal??

Jean Chrétien changed EI and survived the 1997 election, with a majority.

[carepov]

I was wonder how many Liberal and NDP supporters would support a temporary coalition of the two parties for the 2015 election to topple Harper. They could split the ridings in half and only run NDP candidates in one half and Liberal in the other. I'd support that measure. It would guarantee that Harper would be voted out of office because 60 per cent of Canadians oppose Harper. We have a poll regarding this question on our forum at antiharper.com. Feel free to join, its free, and vote in the poll.

http://www.antiharper.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=39

Bad idea, IMO.

I am planning on voting Liberal.

With your proposed plan I would vote CPC as I dislike NDP policies more than I dislike Harper. I have a feeling that more than half of Liberal voters would feel this way giving Harper >50% of the popular vote.

[Moonlight Graham]

The Liberals are getting close to the 'prize', not likely they would agree to this. They should stand and run on their own merits or actually unite the left.

I agree. And the NDP are as close as just about any time in recent history, but for them to go actually form a government and threaten to stay in contention consistently the NDP will need to shift their party more towards the left-centre which is typically Liberal territory, therefore a merge with the Liberals is needed, unless the Liberals implode or the NDP want to remain in federal political obscurity.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

You would be wrong to assume that Liberal voters share your harper degrangment syndrome. I suspect that many of the votes the Liberals are picking up now are coming from people who don't hate harper but are looking for a change.

A lot of people who lean left hate Harper and would vote for a competent team to unseat his government. The NDP's rise from fringe party to official opposition based on the Liberal's implosion in the last election is case-in-point.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Moonlight Graham

[Lenny_Bruce]

The Liberals and the NDP could make an agreement to merge for one election with the stipulation that they would put in place electoral-reform toward proportional representation, then they could split back into two again.

[PIK]

I hope they do, harper will have a bigger majority, but by election time it will not be close. HARPER WINS.

[MadX]

Where's the guarantee of that? It doesn't matter what percentage of the overall voting populace thinks of Harper now; in an election, it's who wins in each riding that matters, and there's nothing to say the Conservative candidate wouldn't win against that one NDP or Liberal opponent he or she faces.

The Tories will beat some of the lone progressive candidates in many ridings, especially in Alberta. However, by only running one progressive candidate in every riding the chances that Harper will win by vote splitting will be reduced. Ridings where Conservatives won by narrow victories will be handed over to the opposition. If this coalition were to take place, Harper's government would be relegated to opposition status and the governing Liberals and New Democrats would be able to implement any policies they agree, removing Conservative power to affect policy.

[Pliny]

I do think that Harper is so radical and so dangerous though that its in the best interest of the country to vote him out and vote splitting is what let him get a majority government.

What is it about Harper that is radical and dangerous?

[Boges]

The Liberals and the NDP could make an agreement to merge for one election with the stipulation that they would put in place electoral-reform toward proportional representation, then they could split back into two again.

They could, but do you have any evidence that is their intent?

The Liberals thrived using the FPTP system for over 10 years. The Ontario Liberals came one seat short of snagging a majority and only receive 2% more popular vote than the PCs.

I think all the indignation over the system now that the Tories are in power is rather amusing.

[Lenny_Bruce]

I hope they do, harper will have a bigger majority, but by election time it will not be close. HARPER WINS.

Have a look at the latest polls, the Cons are significantly behind.

[Lenny_Bruce]

Boges, I never meant to suggest that was their intent. I suggest they should do it, not neccessarily in their interests alone, but in the interests of Canada.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Lenny_Bruce

[MadX]

What is it about Harper that is radical and dangerous?

Where do I begin, he is tampering with EI, a program that already pays for itself, he wants to privatize municipal water supplies, he has been associated with the Heritage Front and the Northern Foundation which are white supremist groups. He has been quoted as stating that he wanted to dismantle Canadian public healthcare when he was involved with the National Citizens Coalition. There is much more, if you would like to learn more about Harper and his radical policies, check out our forum at http://www.antiharper.com/ or our facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Anti-Harper/475803155824795

[Boges]

Where do I begin, he is tampering with EI, a program that already pays for itself, he wants to privatize municipal water supplies, he has been associated with the Heritage Front and the Northern Foundation which are white supremist groups. He has been quoted as stating that he wanted to dismantle Canadian public healthcare when he was involved with the National Citizens Coalition. There is much more, if you would like to learn more about Harper and his radical policies, check out our forum at http://www.antiharper.com/ or our facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Anti-Harper/475803155824795

Many of the things you cite are stuff that could have been said about him before he way elected PM. So those are scare tactics. He has shown no inclination to dismantle public healthcare since being in power. Plus it's the provinces that are in control of that.

There was a lively debate about EI reform. It only really effects seasonal employees adversely. Many would argue those are sensible reforms to help remove fraud. Hardly stuff that's ruining Canada.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Boges

[Fletch 27]

Facebook MadX? Are you supposed to be taken seriously?

The rational mind see the EI thing as FIXING EI... Where is the "privitization" of a Provincial matter? The white supremacist angle? Cmon, your looking rather Radical now..

Where do I begin, he is tampering with EI, a program that already pays for itself, he wants to privatize municipal water supplies, he has been associated with the Heritage Front and the Northern Foundation which are white supremist groups. He has been quoted as stating that he wanted to dismantle Canadian public healthcare when he was involved with the National Citizens Coalition. There is much more, if you would like to learn more about Harper and his radical policies, check out our forum at http://www.antiharper.com/ or our facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Anti-Harper/475803155824795

[hitops]

Have a look at the latest polls, the Cons are significantly behind.

Where can I see the latest polls?

[Fletch 27]

Do you honestly think that Justin would agree to have his daddies party merge with ANYONE??? No way in heck... His daddy was the biggest "hater" of the NDP at the time of his ruling with an Iron Fist... Do you HONESTLY think that Justin would have his daddy roll over in his grave? Heck, Senior Trudeau would crawl out of his coffin and march to JT's home and slap him.... These "Brainstorming sessions" of LIB/NDP merger are for those who simply do not understand or take into consideration past political leaders or position..

The Liberals and the NDP could make an agreement to merge for one election with the stipulation that they would put in place electoral-reform toward proportional representation, then they could split back into two again.

[Fletch 27]

Ya don't think the below statement would make it "kinda hard" for Justin to Merge?

“I want to be leader of the Liberal party, not some sort hybrid semi-ideological formation. The NDP is an ideological party of the left and the Conservatives are an ideological party of the right. We’re a pragmatic centrist party that is ready to take from the left or the right, depending on what actually works.”

I was wonder how many Liberal and NDP supporters would support a temporary coalition of the two parties for the 2015 election to topple Harper. They could split the ridings in half and only run NDP candidates in one half and Liberal in the other. I'd support that measure. It would guarantee that Harper would be voted out of office because 60 per cent of Canadians oppose Harper. We have a poll regarding this question on our forum at antiharper.com. Feel free to join, its free, and vote in the poll.

http://www.antiharper.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=39

[segnosaur]

Where do I begin, he is tampering with EI, a program that already pays for itself,

Ummm... no, it doen't. EI is payed for through a combination of payroll deductions and employer contributions. It doesn't "Pay for itself".

And one of the changes that the conservatives made is to stop IE surpluses from being used to offset the deficit (something that both businesses and labor groups supported.

...he wants to privatize municipal water supplies...

Irrelevant. Water supplies are not covered under federal jurisdiction.

he has been associated with the Heritage Front and the Northern Foundation which are white supremist groups.

Typical underhanded smears...

The fact that a party may be on the "right" of the political spectrum and/or have members that have radical views does not mean the party at large or leader shares that same view.

stating that he wanted to dismantle Canadian public healthcare when he was involved with the National Citizens Coalition.

Yet 2 years ago the Harper government put out a proposal to increase health care, from $30 billion in 2013/14, to $38 billion in 2018/19. Perhaps if you want to complain about someone "dismantaling heathcare" you should be targeting the Liberals, who at one point greatly slashed provincial transfers (which help pay for health care) while at the same time engaging in questionable spending programs of their own.

[g_bambino]

You omitted one little thing.... And its understandable how such a tiny thing could slip your mind but,, Let me remind you about the greatest recession ever witnessed throughout the world.. I know how its easy to forget..

Oh, right, the recession forced them to spend as they did, not the opposition, because recessions are sentient things that can make decisions and tell people to follow them.

It seems like you forgot about a certain little incident that took place in the middle of that recession, a fiscal update that was on 27 November 2008 tabled in the House of Commons. That fiscal update proposed some serious cutbacks in government spending, selling Crown assets, etc. and that fiscal update was rejected by the opposition, in part, because it failed to provide stimulus spending in order to mitigate the financial crisis. A parliamentary dispute was triggered, the opposition threatened to pull down the government, the governor general got involved, there was a prorogation of parliament, and then all returned in early 2009, at which time a new budget was presented... with some $40 billion in stimulus spending. Harper bent to the opposition's wishes to keep his job.

[g_bambino]

The Tories will beat some of the lone progressive candidates in many ridings, especially in Alberta. However, by only running one progressive candidate in every riding the chances that Harper will win by vote splitting will be reduced. Ridings where Conservatives won by narrow victories will be handed over to the opposition. If this coalition were to take place, Harper's government would be relegated to opposition status and the governing Liberals and New Democrats would be able to implement any policies they agree, removing Conservative power to affect policy.

Well, I'll grant you that all that's possible. But, then, so are many other things, like NDP supporters not wanting to vote for a Liberal candidate as a means to achieve a government wherein NDP policies would be diluted by Liberal ones, or vice-versa.

[Boges]

Oh, right, the recession forced them to spend as they did, not the opposition, because recessions are sentient things that can make decisions and tell people to follow them.

It seems like you forgot about a certain little incident that took place in the middle of that recession, a fiscal update that was on 27 November 2008 tabled in the House of Commons. That fiscal update proposed some serious cutbacks in government spending, selling Crown assets, etc. and that fiscal update was rejected by the opposition, in part, because it failed to provide stimulus spending in order to mitigate the financial crisis. A parliamentary dispute was triggered, the opposition threatened to pull down the government, the governor general got involved, there was a prorogation of parliament, and then all returned in early 2009, at which time a new budget was presented... with some $40 billion in stimulus spending. Harper bent to the opposition's wishes to keep his job.

I totally agree with this post. Which is why claims that Harper's spending is the reason we're in debt is wrongheaded. Can't have it both ways.

Though I also do take the CPC's credit for the Economic Action Plan as dubious because as noted, it was forced upon the government by the opposition.

[silver72]

If by chance Harper did get another majority is will probably be for the 250,000 yearly immigrants, they have let in since 2006 and that a lot of graceful voters.