Iraq Invasion - America's Shame... 10 years on

[bush_cheney2004]

Indeed the U.S. military is the world's largest welfare program.

Correct.....

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect

Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the

common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings

of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this

Constitution for the United States of America.

[WWWTT]

When and if another "Iraq" situation presents itself, the U.S. will INVADE.....because...it can.

So you're saying that the US did not learn their lesson?

You're probably right as the US frantically races towards the bottom

WWWTT

[Shady]

Indeed the U.S. military is the world's largest welfare program.

I would disagree. Welfare is receiving income without labour. People in the military that design things, build things, test things, and kill and defend things are simply being compensated for their labour.

[bush_cheney2004]

So you're saying that the US did not learn their lesson?

No, they learned to use more troops and more bombs.

You're probably right as the US frantically races towards the bottom

If that happens, it's America's choice...not yours. Enjoy the show......

[bush_cheney2004]

I would disagree. Welfare is receiving income without labour. People in the military that design things, build things, test things, and kill and defend things are simply being compensated for their labour.

Agreed, but the larger concept of promoting the General Welfare existed from the very beginning. And that meant funding a navy, army, and later, air force (after some Americans invented controlled flight).

[Guest American Woman]

So you're saying that the US did not learn their lesson?

You're probably right as the US frantically races towards the bottom

The bottom of what, exactly? So far we seem to be doing ok. Sorry about that.

Seriously, some here might want to think about what some of the leaders/countries y'all are defending would have done if they were in the position of lone super power the way the U.S. has been. As they say - "be careful what you wish for...."

At any rate, when one has never had the weight of the world on their shoulders - literally - it can be quite easy to judge those who actually do, but the old saying "walk a mile in my shoes" comes to mind ......

[Guest Derek L]

Ya I don't think more regurgitated military war tactics justifies your lust for unjustified destruction and loss of human life!

WWWTT

Again, your lack of understanding of the topic doesn’t lend well to your ability to determine if said actions would be justified or not……………….

The NDP was initially supportive of military action in Libya and by extension the removal of wacky Gaddafi…And Gaddafi willingly gave up WMD research in the post 9/11 environment…

What is the difference between Libya and Iraq?

[Moonlight Graham]

No, because the nukes in Cuba were Soviet and Khrushchev had all his marbles and a firm grasp on the military and KGB at the time………….

Go watch "The Fog of War" with Robert McNamara, and the deleted scenes.

Again no………If the United States struck now they could debilitate the rudimentary North Korean launch facilities…………..And even with the estimated tiny arsenal North Korea now posses, the real threat isn’t so much the North Koreans nuking Japan or South Korea, but coupled with their rudimentary space program, putting a couple of low yield nukes ~300-400 km above North America and turning us all Amish…….

I'm pretty sure nuking S.Korea and Japan is a major threat also, and a very real threat that may be do-able right now.

As to Iran, it will be much easier attacking them without nuclear weapons then with for obvious reasons……..

Yes, but why do we want to attack Iran? You want to start preventative wars (not even preemptive wars) based on the imaginary possibility we might need to attack them in the future. You'd rather have guaranteed war rather than a small chance of war. That's insane. I'm sure you supported the Iraq invasion, and if you were old enough, the Vietnam War as well. Should we have attacked China, Pakistan, and the USSR when they got their nukes as well?

[bush_cheney2004]

... Should we have attacked China, Pakistan, and the USSR when they got their nukes as well?

What do you mean by "we" ? Who would have prosecuted such attacks ?

[Guest Derek L]

Go watch "The Fog of War" with Robert McNamara, and the deleted scenes.

I have seen it…….McNamara was an idiot then as much as he is now…………..Remember his suggestion that no allies supported them in the Vietnam war? Big slap in the face to the ANZAC and ROK troops…….I think he’s at best going senile.

I'm pretty sure nuking S.Korea and Japan is a major threat also, and a very real threat that may be do-able right now.

Not if you strike the North Korean launch site prior........

Yes, but why do we want to attack Iran? You want to start preventative wars (not even preemptive wars) based on the imaginary possibility we might need to attack them in the future. You'd rather have guaranteed war rather than a small chance of war. That's insane. I'm sure you supported the Iraq invasion, and if you were old enough, the Vietnam War as well. Should we have attacked China, Pakistan, and the USSR when they got their nukes as well?

Of course I’ll be supportive of the coming attack on Iran, be it an Israeli and/or American run affair………..The reason, the pick-up and Cadillac in my driveway don’t run on recycled hemp and the laughter of children……….Though my politics and understanding were not formed in time for Vietnam, I certainly remember the gas line-ups in the 70s……..

[waldo]

Seriously, some here might want to think about what some of the leaders/countries y'all are defending would have done if they were in the position of lone super power the way the U.S. has been. As they say - "be careful what you wish for...."

At any rate, when one has never had the weight of the world on their shoulders - literally - it can be quite easy to judge those who actually do, but the old saying "walk a mile in my shoes" comes to mind ......

whaaa... the world policeman beat! It's a tough go for a rogue nation, hey? You want it, you wear it, you own it!

[WWWTT]

No, they learned to use more troops and more bombs.

If that happens, it's America's choice...not yours. Enjoy the show......

Actually the US tried using more troops,more bombs and killing more innocents (murder) back in Vietnam.

Didn't work then,won't work now.

But hey,don't let the death of tens of thousands of innocent civilians interupt the "US race to the bottom"

And don't be surprised when I tell you that as a Canadian,I can influence US policy very easily from within Canada.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

The bottom of what, exactly? So far we seem to be doing ok. Sorry about that.

Seriously, some here might want to think about what some of the leaders/countries y'all are defending would have done if they were in the position of lone super power the way the U.S. has been. As they say - "be careful what you wish for...."

At any rate, when one has never had the weight of the world on their shoulders - literally - it can be quite easy to judge those who actually do, but the old saying "walk a mile in my shoes" comes to mind ......

LOL!

The weight of the world is on the US's shoulders????

I guess this is how the citizens now justify murdering tens of thousands of innocent people.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Again, your lack of understanding of the topic doesn’t lend well to your ability to determine if said actions would be justified or not……………….

The NDP was initially supportive of military action in Libya and by extension the removal of wacky Gaddafi…And Gaddafi willingly gave up WMD research in the post 9/11 environment…

What is the difference between Libya and Iraq?

You have let your lust for violence,death and suffering blind your judgement

You have become part of the problem and not part of the solution.

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

LOL!

The weight of the world is on the US's shoulders????

I guess this is how the citizens now justify murdering tens of thousands of innocent people.

This thread is in "the Rest of the World," not "US Politics," is it not? Why do you think that is? - Perhaps because the decisions the POTUS's made/make affect the world/are judged by the world.

Or do you think the rest of the world shouldn't be considered when making decisions regarding war/fighting terrorism? - The impact on Iraq/the rest of the ME/the world shouldn't have been a factor; the only thing to have been taken into consideration is the U.S. - is that what you're saying?

At any rate, my advice to you is to '"guess" again,' because my comment was in no way about "justifying" anything. It might help to try to get out of your own mindset for a moment as it might help you understand what someone else is actually saying.

[Guest Derek L]

You have let your lust for violence,death and suffering blind your judgement

You have become part of the problem and not part of the solution.

WWWTT

Did the NDP also?

[eyeball]

The bottom of what, exactly? So far we seem to be doing ok. Sorry about that.

Seriously, some here might want to think about what some of the leaders/countries y'all are defending would have done if they were in the position of lone super power the way the U.S. has been. As they say - "be careful what you wish for...."

At any rate, when one has never had the weight of the world on their shoulders - literally - it can be quite easy to judge those who actually do, but the old saying "walk a mile in my shoes" comes to mind ......

So, would a weight bearing down on one's shoulder's be sort of like force making you do something?

[WWWTT]

At any rate, my advice to you is to '"guess" again,' because my comment was in no way about "justifying" anything. It might help to try to get out of your own mindset for a moment as it might help you understand what someone else is actually saying.

Oh OK I'm going to start taking advise from you from now on?!?!?!?

You got to be freekin kidding me lady?!?!?!?

I clearly understand what it is you are writing,that the US was doing the world a favour by invading Iraq to eliminate one person they did not like-Saddam.

Just because you "ADD" into the debate,a freekin outlandish/unrealistic scenario does not mean that somehow I must stop for longer than a nano second to ponder and weigh what it is you are suggesting.And then on top off that,give you recognotion for creating some waked out "fairy tale"!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Did the NDP also?

This makes no sense?

I guess if you can not further elaborate,than you are reduced to "straw man" .

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

Oh OK I'm going to start taking advise from you from now on?!?!?!?

You got to be freekin kidding me lady?!?!?!?

I clearly understand what it is you are writing,that the US was doing the world a favour by invading Iraq to eliminate one person they did not like-Saddam.

Just because you "ADD" into the debate,a freekin outlandish/unrealistic scenario does not mean that somehow I must stop for longer than a nano second to ponder and weigh what it is you are suggesting.And then on top off that,give you recognotion for creating some waked out "fairy tale"!

Wow. You clearly don't understand what it is I am writing at all; as I said, that would require getting out of your mindset and actually focusing on what *I* am saying. After this off-the-wall outburst, I won't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen.

[Guest American Woman]

So, would a weight bearing down on one's shoulder's be sort of like force making you do something?

How about you tell me what your understanding of having the weight of the world on your shoulders might mean? - because I'm trying to understand where you would get that "some sort of force making you do something" is a part of it.

[GostHacked]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21873892

Video from BBC showing the rise in birth defects of Iraqi children because of the DU and other munitions used in Iraq.

Doctors at the Basra maternity hospital in southern Iraq have told
the BBC that they have seen a 60% rise in birth defects since 2003.

Dr Muhsin Sabbak from the hospital is convinced that the rise
in defects, such as spina bifida, is because of munitions from the Iraq
war.

Edited March 23, 2013 by GostHacked

[WWWTT]

Wow. You clearly don't understand what it is I am writing at all; as I said, that would require getting out of your mindset and actually focusing on what *I* am saying. After this off-the-wall outburst, I won't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen.

I completely understand how you always want the debate to be about "you" and what it is "you" are writing.

And when you don't like the answer you get,then it's all about how "I" do not understand "you"

This is classic AW debate policy.

WWWTT

[eyeball]

How about you tell me what your understanding of having the weight of the world on your shoulders might mean?

The same thing it means to you.

- because I'm trying to understand where you would get that "some sort of force making you do something" is a part of it.

You don't understand the relationship between weight and force in the context you've used it?

If you carry 100 lbs on your back are you forced to bend to its weight or do you bend willingly - IOW could you simply choose to pack that weight standing straight and tall with nary a worry towards having to bend over?

As for trying to understand something here I'm left wondering how America and it's allies support for dictatorships is the same as carrying the weight of the world on our shoulders? I can see how guilt could weigh down on someone but in the context you're using weight you seem to be implying we should be proud for having carried the weight of the world as if we were doing it a favour.

[Guest American Woman]

I completely understand how you always want the debate to be about "you" and what it is "you" are writing.

Ummm. Yeah. I do want replies to what I said to be about what I am writing as opposed to off-the-wall "guesses" about what I am writing. 'Nuff said.