Rob Ford, mayor of Toronto UPDATES

Bryan · May 28, 2013

To deny the video exists is to accuse three people from different media outlets in two countries of conspiring to lie in order to defame Rob Ford, putting themselves not only at risk of ruining their careers but possibly also facing criminal charges.

So it's accusing them of the kinds of things they do on an almost daily basis. Not much of a stretch.

BubberMiley · May 28, 2013

What's "more likely" isn't relevant regarding whether the video is fake or authentic.

What's "more likely" is very relevant when it comes to public opinion. I don't see how anyone could expect people to not form an opinion after following this story. It's true that there isn't enough evidence to remove him from office or to charge him with a crime, but there certainly is enough to come to a personal assessment of the situation.

BubberMiley · May 28, 2013

So it's accusing them of the kinds of things they do on an almost daily basis. Not much of a stretch.

What are you referring to? Or is this just another imaginary victimization complex delusion?

May 28, 2013

What's "more likely" is very relevant when it comes to public opinion. I don't see how anyone could expect people to not form an opinion after following this story. It's true that there isn't enough evidence to remove him from office or to charge him with a crime, but there certainly is enough to come to a personal assessment of the situation.

Forming an opinion is one thing. Acting and proceeding as if that opinion is fact is quite another. All kinds of harm can be done with really no evidence when people are all too eager to believe whatever serves their mindset/agenda; when they are all too eager to "form an opinion" based on their political leanings.

If this scenario were two reporters from Fox and the politician were a liberal, I'm sure people who have all the faith in the world in the Star reporters would have no faith in the Fox reporters, pointing out that Fox does not have an unbiased reputation; pointing out that the 'evidence' is coming from a criminal, and is possibly not authentic.

But people are all to willingly jump on the bandwagon - and whether or not this video ever sees the light of day, whether or not it will ever be determined if it's authentic, the harm has been done. And you, apparently, are ok with that.

Edited May 28, 2013 by American Woman

Black Dog · May 28, 2013

Forming an opinion is one thing. Acting and proceeding as if that opinion is fact is quite another. All kinds of harm can be done with really no evidence when people are all too eager to believe whatever serves their mindset/agenda; when they are all too eager to "form an opinion" based on their political leanings.

If this scenario were two reporters from Fox and the politician were a liberal, I'm sure people who have all the faith in the world in the Star reporters would have no faith in the Fox reporters, pointing out that Fox does not have an unbiased reputation; pointing out that the 'evidence' is coming from a criminal, and is possibly not authentic.

But people are all to willingly jump on the bandwagon - and whether or not this video ever sees the light of day, whether or not it will ever be determined if it's authentic, the harm has been done. And you, apparently, are ok with that.

Is it a liberal politician with an erratic family/personal history involving drugs and other substances whose entire career to this point has been an ever escalating shitshow? Because that's the context you're missing out on.

BubberMiley · May 28, 2013

If this scenario were two reporters from Fox and the politician were a liberal, I'm sure people who have all the faith in the world in the Star reporters would have no faith in the Fox reporters...

Why are you "sure?" Where's your evidence? I think if it were Fox or the Sun or the National Post, people would take the reporters' testimony in the same way.

But people are all to willingly jump on the bandwagon - and whether or not this video ever sees the light of day, whether or not it will ever be determined if it's authentic, the harm has been done. And you, apparently, are ok with that.

Yes, I'm okay with forming an opinion based on people's testimony when there is other evidence that also supports their testimony, such as Ford's lawyer's questionable response, Rob Ford's questionable response, Rob Ford's character and background, and Rob Ford's staff getting fired and resigning en masse. It would be a shame that people just forgot about the whole thing because the video was destroyed because someone went and killed the guy who had it. But you, apparently, are ok with that.

May 28, 2013

Why are you "sure?"

I'm "sure" because I've seen such scenarios play out.

It would be a shame that people just forgot about the whole thing because the video was destroyed because someone went and killed the guy who had it. But you, apparently, are ok with that.

I've said absolutely nothing to warrant such an ignorant response.

BubberMiley · May 28, 2013

I'm "sure" because I've seen such scenarios play out.

Like what?

I've said absolutely nothing to warrant such an ignorant response.

Sorry. I thought you were saying people shouldn't be forming opinions about poor Mr. Ford because they don't have enough evidence to make personal conclusions about his character. Apparently you were trying to make a more vague point that can't be pinned down with actual words.

May 28, 2013

Like what?

Sorry. I thought you were saying people shouldn't be forming opinions about poor Mr. Ford because they don't have enough evidence to make personal conclusions about his character. Apparently you were trying to make a more vague point that can't be pinned down with actual words.

Apparently you have been totally and completely unable to comprehend anything I've said.

BubberMiley · May 28, 2013

Apparently so.

Did you understand what I meant when I said "like what?"

What I meant was, "yeah, right."

It's shocking that people just make up things and then criticize others for believing credible things.

Edited May 28, 2013 by BubberMiley

g_bambino · May 28, 2013

So it's accusing them of the kinds of things they do on an almost daily basis.

A daily basis..... People can't make up stories like that with impunity, you know. It's called slander.

Bryan · May 28, 2013

A daily basis..... People can't make up stories like that with impunity, you know. It's called slander.

Yes, slander is a good word for most of the reporting the Star does.

BubberMiley · May 28, 2013

Yes, slander is a good word for most of the reporting the Star does.

Or, alternately, for the posts you make, since you can't defend your accusations with actual facts.

But I think it's caled "libel" when it's written down and "slander" when it's verbal.

g_bambino · May 28, 2013

Yes, slander is a good word for most of the reporting the Star does.

Soooo.... They just have really, really, really awesome lawyers? Or, do they pay off judges?

scribblet · May 28, 2013

Yes, slander is a good word for most of the reporting the Star does.

Which is why they hide behind legalize - you know alleged and all...

I hear The Star has just reported that new evidence has been discovered showing that Mayor Ford, not Hitler, was responsible for the Holocaust. (alleged and unnamed sources of course)

Edited May 28, 2013 by scribblet

Bryan · May 28, 2013

Soooo.... They just have really, really, really awesome lawyers? Or, do they pay off judges?

Good lawyers, yes. Ones that tell them what weasel words to use, and when to hide behind "anonymous sources".

BubberMiley · May 28, 2013

Good lawyers, yes. Ones that tell them what weasel words to use, and when to hide behind "anonymous sources".

Still got nothing, eh? I figured it was all hot air and no substance. Talk about "weasel words." :lol:

Edited May 28, 2013 by BubberMiley

g_bambino · May 28, 2013

I figured it was all hot air and no substance. Talk about "weasel words."

Indeed.

Boges · May 28, 2013

In don't know if anyone else has seen this but it's a video of some guy making a video of Ford smoking crack in less than an hour. He's not a pro, or so he says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnT-ZI_zvdQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Perhaps it's not so unbelievable that it could have been faked.

That is if it even exists.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Boges

BubberMiley · May 29, 2013

Well, that's pretty compelling proof that there is no way to create such a video and make it look real.

If I were you, I wouldn't have picked the fakest looking, poor quality video as an example. If it's possible to do, you should be showing good examples. There must be an Obama or George W Bush one out there where it looks convincingly real and they're saying things they never said and doing things they never did.

I think it's impossible, though, because Call of Duty doesn't really look real and CGI people always look fake.

Edited May 29, 2013 by BubberMiley

AzzHat · May 29, 2013

In don't know if anyone else has seen this but it's a video of some guy making a video of Ford smoking crack in less than an hour.

Ford smoked the crack in less than an hour?

Spiderfish · May 29, 2013

Or, alternately, for the posts you make, since you can't defend your accusations with actual facts.

Is this practice suddenly unacceptable to you?

BubberMiley · May 29, 2013

You're ignoring actual facts, like the sudden departure of several in his trusted inner circle.

The_Squid · May 29, 2013

That is if it even exists.

Ford's staffers, chief if staff and deputy mayor all think that there is a video of Ford smoking crack.

The reports say David Price told Mark Towhey, the mayor's chief of staff before his departure, that he had reliable information about the location of the video.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2013/05/28/toronto-mayor-rob-ford-alleged-video-reports.html

Boges · May 29, 2013

Well, that's pretty compelling proof that there is no way to create such a video and make it look real.

If I were you, I wouldn't have picked the fakest looking, poor quality video as an example. If it's possible to do, you should be showing good examples. There must be an Obama or George W Bush one out there where it looks convincingly real and they're saying things they never said and doing things they never did.

I think it's impossible, though, because Call of Duty doesn't really look real and CGI people always look fake.

He makes the point that seeing it once on a cellphone might not be the same as seeing it on a screen over and over again. Also I heard the dude being interviewed on the radio, he just wanted to point out that it's not terribly difficult and if he wanted to do more he could have.

I think he was responding to a Star story where faking the video would be technically impossible.

http://www.randomhouse.ca/hazlitt/blog/rob-ford-crack-video

Again I'm not taking a position yet, I don't have a flying clue if a video, fake or real exists. Until, of course, I see it.