US dead last in health care

[WWWTT]

Your government, by its immigration policy, as well as examples I've found - beg to differ.

Around 250 000-280 000 people come to Canada every year.

How many examples did you find?4?5?

I stand by my claim!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

You're the one that keeps bringing up Canada. You and bush_cheney. If you don't want to talk about Canada, then don't bring it up. The fact of the matter is the OP has nothing to do with Canada in particular, nor is this in the Canada-US relations forum. It's you two that continue to bring up nonsense about the US supplementing the Canadian system, Canadians seeking healthcare in the US, etc. etc. That has absolutely nothing to do with the OP or the reasons that your country is dead last in health rankings. But your posts in this thread for pages and pages now have shown that you're incapable of actually discussing anything to do with the US unless you're draping yourself in the flag and chanting "USA! USA! USA!" like a braying ass.

Not to mention that a huge number of Americans seek medical attention in other countries!

But somehow that fact is quickly shuved away by BC!

WWWTT

[Guest American Woman]

Around 250 000-280 000 people come to Canada every year.

That's "come," not "sent."

How many examples did you find?4?5?

Many, many more - if you'd bother to read the links I provided; and again, I'm not even speaking of Canadians choosing to go to the U.S. - I'm speaking of Canadians being sent there, by the government, for lack of facilities/services in Canada. The only people I've referred to choosing to go to the U.S. for care are your high profile politicians et al. If you can find similar incidents - of our government/health care providers sending Americans out of the country due to lack of facilities/service - or any examples of high profile Americans choosing to go to Canada for treatment over being cared for in the U.S. - I'm listening.

I stand by my claim!

That doesn't make you right.

Research has repeatedly found a “healthy immigrant effect”—immigrants’ health is generally better than that of the Canadian-born, although it tends to decline as their years in Canada increase.

That's from Statistics Canada - and the "tends to decline as their years in Canada increase" is significant - and confirms what I've said, especially when taking into consideration Canada's high immigration rate per capita.

Edited January 12, 2013 by American Woman

[cybercoma]

Not to mention that a huge number of Americans seek medical attention in other countries!

But somehow that fact is quickly shuved away by BC!

WWWTT

It's such a huge issue in the United States that the term "Medical Tourism" was coined to describe it. AmWo and BC don't want to talk about Mexico (a largely developing nation) subsidizing their healthcare to the tune of many millions of dollars more than they subsidize Canadian healthcare (which is completely irrelevant to the OP anyway)

[cybercoma]

That's from Statistics Canada - and the "tends to decline as their years in Canada increase" is significant - and confirms what I've said, especially when taking into consideration Canada's high immigration rate per capita.

You don't say? People's health declines as they get older? Inconceivable.

[Guest American Woman]

You don't say? People's health declines as they get older? Inconceivable.

Try reading the source I provided - I shouldn't need to c&p the whole thing. It goes on to say - It is hypothesized that this upward trend in ASMRs reflects a loss of immigrants’ health advantage over time. It's not a reference to decline in health due to age. It also says, in spite of the decline, Nonetheless, these rates remained significantly lower than those of the Canadian-born population.

[Guest Manny]

It's such a huge issue in the United States that the term "Medical Tourism" was coined to describe it. AmWo and BC don't want to talk about Mexico (a largely developing nation) subsidizing their healthcare to the tune of many millions of dollars more than they subsidize Canadian healthcare (which is completely irrelevant to the OP anyway)

Also, "pharma tourism" if it has not been mentioned already. People from US crossing the border to purchase life-saving meds. The US government attempted to make this illegal at the behest of big drug companies. Apparently they're not free to buy from the least expensive sources.

[cybercoma]

The Free Market isn't really free at all. The only thing that's free is corporations to establish monopolies and back-room agreements for price fixing schemes.

[Guest American Woman]

It's such a huge issue in the United States that the term "Medical Tourism" was coined to describe it.

You might be surprised that Canadians also engage in "medical tourism." If the term was, indeed, coined in the U.S., glad we could give Canadians, and the rest of the world engaging in it, a name.

[cybercoma]

Your healthcare system is a mess. People are unnecessarily putting off treatments until it's too late and suffering the consequences. Children are dying early when they don't have to. And all you can do is sit here and continue to bring up Canada. Keep your head buried firmly in the sand while people in your country continue to suffer the consequences of your ignorance.

[Guest American Woman]

Your healthcare system is a mess. People are unnecessarily putting off treatments until it's too late and suffering the consequences. Children are dying early when they don't have to. And all you can do is sit here and continue to bring up Canada. Keep your head buried firmly in the sand while people in your country continue to suffer the consequences of your ignorance.

And just what do I have my head buried in the sand about? I swear you don't even read what I say. You, on the other hand, have refused to discuss one point I've brought up. It's always the same old song - 'we have national health care! you don't. We rock! you suck.'

[Bryan]

You might be surprised that Canadians also engage in "medical tourism." If the term was, indeed, coined in the U.S., glad we could give Canadians, and the rest of the world engaging in it, a name.

A few thousand Canadians a year do engage in medical tourism. Compare that to the millions of Americans who do. California is roughly the same pop. as Canada. Over a million Californians a year seek health care in Mexico.

[Guest American Woman]

A few thousand Canadians a year do engage in medical tourism. Compare that to the millions of Americans who do. California is roughly the same pop. as Canada. Over a million Californians a year seek health care in Mexico.

If those stats are factual (and I have my doubts) - it makes sense that people without national health care or insurance would seek cheaper care elsewhere; but it speaks poorly of the system that does provide it - people are paying for it with their tax dollars, and they still choose to go elsewhere. In those instances, it's obvious that they aren't going for the cheaper price, but for the quality of care. They'd rather pay for care than get it provided at no cost (beyond the taxes that they've already paid). What does that tell you?

Edited January 12, 2013 by American Woman

[Canuckistani]

The title of this thread is inaccurate, the OP article ranks the health of countries, not the health care systems. There could be other reasons why Americans have such poor health other than their health care system (which is likely still a factor).

There could be social/cultural reasons, like higher gun ownership & more violent society overall, or a higher consumerism/advertising culture leading to buying more junk food/fast food. The US has the 3rd largest population in the world, so environmental and urban population density reasons may factor as well.

You're right, I apologize. I was trying to shorten the headline, and when I hear health, I'm reflexively conditioned to think of healthcare. A lot of the factors mentioned are only peripherally about healthcare, and then it would be mental health care. Mental healthcare won't fix the US' mental health problems, since it would be the nuts healing the nuts.

[Guest American Woman]

Mental healthcare won't fix the US' mental health problems, since it would be the nuts healing the nuts.

This pretty much sums up the inent of the thread.

[bush_cheney2004]

Also, "pharma tourism" if it has not been mentioned already. People from US crossing the border to purchase life-saving meds. The US government attempted to make this illegal at the behest of big drug companies. Apparently they're not free to buy from the least expensive sources.

The U.S. government just convicted and sentenced yet another Canadian criminal trying to defraud Americans with bogus pharma products using internet sales. These Canadian parasites on the U.S. market ship fake drugs to unsuspecting doctors and consumers.

[Guest American Woman]

The title of this thread is inaccurate, the OP article ranks the health of countries, not the health care systems. There could be other reasons why Americans have such poor health other than their health care system (which is likely still a factor).

Where does it say we are last in "health?" The chart says "deaths from all causes." Even if it were "health," I repeat. Such "poor health?" How much of a difference do you see between the U.S. and say, Denmark - or the United Kingdom, for that matter (whose health care has been ranked above Canada's).

Just because we are ranked below other nations doesn't mean we have "such poor health."

There could be social/cultural reasons, like higher gun ownership & more violent society overall, or a higher consumerism/advertising culture leading to buying more junk food/fast food. The US has the 3rd largest population in the world, so environmental and urban population density reasons may factor as well.

Could be. Among other reasons. There's still no evidence of Americans being in "such poor health."

[bush_cheney2004]

You're the one that keeps bringing up Canada. You and bush_cheney. If you don't want to talk about Canada, then don't bring it up.

But I love bringing up Canada. After all, this is a Canadian forum (from Texas), right ? The Canadian !American identity neurosis manifests itself in many ways here at MLW, including health care.

But your posts in this thread for pages and pages now have shown that you're incapable of actually discussing anything to do with the US unless you're draping yourself in the flag and chanting "USA! USA! USA!" like a braying ass.

No problem....millions of Canadians, Mexicans, and other nationals emigrating to the USA! can't all be wrong.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Could be. Among other reasons. There's still no evidence of Americans being in "such poor health."

True...we've already established that other nations touted for "superior health care" have higher suicide rates (mental health), including Canada, which lags behind other nations in community based mental health services.

[Wilber]

2011 statistics rank the U.S. at #1 in a few categories.....Canada ranks #1 in zero categories.

Didn't a member here say that Canadians are still wiping poop on fecal occult test cards for colon cancer screening, while Americans are routinely getting colonoscopies with concurrent polyp removal ?

Wow, who knew annual colonoscopies were part of a routine physical in the US.

[bush_cheney2004]

Wow, who knew annual colonoscopies were part of a routine physical in the US.

Only after age 50 or earlier with high risk factors. Follow-ups every 2 to 5 years depending on results (e.g. pre-cancerous polyp count and size). There is also a virtual CT version of the exam, but it does not remove polyps. CRC (color-rectal cancer) rates incidence and mortality are way down coincident with higher screening rates.

[cybercoma]

Wow, who knew annual colonoscopies were part of a routine physical in the US.

They're obviously not working or the doctors would be wondering why so many Americans have their heads buried up there.

[Wilber]

Only after age 50 or earlier with high risk factors. Follow-ups every 2 to 5 years depending on results (e.g. pre-cancerous polyp count and size). There is also a virtual CT version of the exam, but it does not remove polyps. CRC (color-rectal cancer) rates incidence and mortality are way down coincident with higher screening rates.

Doesn't sound all that much different from what we do. The fecal testing is routine but doctors will have little hesitation ordering a colonoscopy if they think it is warranted. Colonoscopies, CT scans and MRI's etc can also be had at private clinics that are not part of the public funded system.

[bush_cheney2004]

Doesn't sound all that much different from what we do. The fecal testing is routine but doctors will have little hesitation ordering a colonoscopy if they think it is warranted.

Therein lies the difference.....U.S. insurers and providers are completing colonoscopies on a routine basis, bypassing the older (and less reliable) fecal occult screenings. Turn age 50...you get scoped. This is considered a preventive procedure and is much cheaper than fighting CRC incidents.

Colonoscopies, CT scans and MRI's etc can also be had at private clinics that are not part of the public funded system.

Makes sense...they are not bound by resource and procedure rules limited provincial health care. Canadians with the means to do so can take advantage of this on either side of the border, and often do.

Edited January 12, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Signals.Cpl]

If those stats are factual (and I have my doubts) - it makes sense that people without national health care or insurance would seek cheaper care elsewhere; but it speaks poorly of the system that does provide it - people are paying for it with their tax dollars, and they still choose to go elsewhere. In those instances, it's obvious that they aren't going for the cheaper price, but for the quality of care. They'd rather pay for care than get it provided at no cost (beyond the taxes that they've already paid). What does that tell you?

That they have the means to do so? If you can afford it why wait in line? If you cannot afford it you wait in line... rather than if you can afford it you get healthcare if you cannot afford it you die. If I had the money and needed care I would go somewhere where I can throw a few bucks around and get care now rather than wait.