Native chief over 20 days in hunger strike to protest Budget Bill

[Smallc]

He already caved in, so the only question is how much more will he do so ?

He agreed to meet with Shawn Atleo...which turned into a delegation...which suddenly included Theresa Spence.

[Guest]

News on the subject from the CBC.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/07/pol-attawapiskat-audit-monday.html

[Boges]

Well the CBC is clearly lying and hated Natives.

Wait What?

Edited January 7, 2013 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

He agreed to meet with Shawn Atleo...which turned into a delegation...which suddenly included Theresa Spence.

Yes, how convenient to everyone involved. Maybe he'll find other ways to keep people happy in 2013. If he does use that approach, it will be important to keep his base happy, and keep them on his side as he moves forward. Maybe he`ll be learning a little more about politics this year.

[Smallc]

He should use the same strategy as for Marois - do nothing.

[Michael Hardner]

He should use the same strategy as for Marois - do nothing.

Yes, we established that yesterday over many emails about what identity is etc. etc. The point is that he`s not doing nothing - he`s already being political about this. Do you support him now, and when the inevitable time comes when he has to do something (ie., to either A) make some kind of wishy-washy statement affirming something to make the FN leaders happy or actually make concessions, changes, pay out, or something else) - when that time comes will you still support him ?

[Smallc]

I'm not on his side if that's what you're trying to say. No one is offering the proper solution to move forward. I think that Harper is being blackmailed and conned, though. I don't think he's done anything to deserve the vitriol directed at him.

[Mighty AC]

News on the subject from the CBC.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...dit-monday.html

So the Attawapiskat reserve spent $104 million over 5 years with next to no documentation? The government appointed co-manager is banging the chief, who is now on a hunger strike to force a meeting? Now Spence is trying to keep the media away from her stunt because she doesn't like how it's being portrayed.

I think Harper should meet with her, after the RCMP investigates what looks like fraud.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Mighty AC

[Michael Hardner]

I think Harper should meet with her, after the RCMP investigates what looks like fraud.

I think this focus on accounting is wrong-headed. It's pretty clear something is wrong, but I think the problem lies in how they manage projects overall, not just money. I have been in situations similar to this before, and there's no gain to be made in punishing - they need to bring in help to get things done. If they were just paying off the leadership to get out of the way and act as figureheads, then that would be fine.

[g_bambino]

There's no 'correct' answer to identity.

Well, there's certainly real and delusional.

Addressed how ? You will never convince people to adopt another identity - so why even bring it up.

I already said: It raises false problems that get in the way of resolving actual issues.

One ignores the law at one's own peril.

And the law makes every aboriginal Canadian a Canadian, regardless of the way that person chooses to identify.

[ed.: +]

Edited January 7, 2013 by g_bambino

[g_bambino]

[T]reaties are... historical relics.

Hardly; they're part of the constitution, in constant use.

[Smallc]

That is true, but Tim is quite right in the sense of them having little value today.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Smallc

[Mighty AC]

I think this focus on accounting is wrong-headed. It's pretty clear something is wrong, but I think the problem lies in how they manage projects overall, not just money. I have been in situations similar to this before, and there's no gain to be made in punishing - they need to bring in help to get things done. If they were just paying off the leadership to get out of the way and act as figureheads, then that would be fine.

I believe the co-manager was supposed to help manage their projects. However, he was sleeping with the chief and large sums of money were spent without a trace. This situation requires cleaning up for sure, but I don't think that process should preclude punishment.

[g_bambino]

That is true, but Tim is quite right in the sense of them having value today.

I assume you meant to say "no value".

If so: why? To do so would necessitate the forced elimination of one of the three parties in the contract: simply eliminate the First Nations governments that (mismanaged as many may be) have roots here deeper than those of the country's. That sounds like brute imperialism.

[Smallc]

It doesn't sound like imperialism when you consider that all human beings in this country are on equal standing. There is truly only one way forward in the long run.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Smallc

[g_bambino]

It doesn't sound like imperialism when you consider that all human beings in this country are on equal standing.

If we're all on equal standing, why is there a need to change anything?

[Michael Hardner]

Well, there's certainly real and delusional.

As I said several times you can`t force someone to change how they see themselves. We can argue such philosophies on here, but it doesn`t address the protests, and the underlying problems. I don't think it's of any use to those in power either.

[Michael Hardner]

I believe the co-manager was supposed to help manage their projects. However, he was sleeping with the chief and large sums of money were spent without a trace. This situation requires cleaning up for sure, but I don't think that process should preclude punishment.

Why do you believe that ? Who was the manager ? What was the budget, timelines, the goals. Those are basics and that's what they should be auditing.

The process doesn't have to preclude punishment (for political reasons) but no punishment will happen (for political reasons).

[g_bambino]

We can argue such philosophies on here, but it doesn`t address the protests, and the underlying problems.

It certainly does address the protests, particlularly those that are aiming to rescue an imaginary aboriginal sovereignty that itself stems from a deluded belief that First Nations are not Canadian.

[Smallc]

If we're all on equal standing, why is there a need to change anything?

Because the law currently is not reflective of that in all cases.

[g_bambino]

Because the law currently is not reflective of that in all cases.

It is and it isn't; we are all equal under the law in some ways and not in others. That's the way it always has been and is how it always will be; total equality is impossible in practice.

[Michael Hardner]

It certainly does address the protests, particlularly those that are aiming to rescue an imaginary aboriginal sovereignty that itself stems from a deluded belief that First Nations are not Canadian.

Ok - so it addresses the protests but... really it dismisses them. Actually, it dismisses part of what some of them are saying (there`s no cohesive message or agreement on objective) but not all of what they`re saying.

In other words it says "you're wrong, shut up" and the status quo remains.

[g_bambino]

t says "you're wrong, shut up" and the status quo remains.

That's quite a leap. How about: "let's dispel myths so we can focus on changing the status quo in realistic, practical ways"?

[Michael Hardner]

That's quite a leap. How about: "let's dispel myths so we can focus on changing the status quo in realistic, practical ways"?

The myths are that they don't consider themselves Canadian even if they legally are Canadian, even if Canadian courts say they're Canadian.

How about: "Let's focus on fixing real problems while the whole shoe-gazing "who are we" discussions go on, and on... and on..."

[Canuckistani]

The myths are that they don't consider themselves Canadian even if they legally are Canadian, even if Canadian courts say they're Canadian.

How about: "Let's focus on fixing real problems while the whole shoe-gazing "who are we" discussions go on, and on... and on..."

But that is the real problem. If they consider themselves sovereign nations, they're going to demand to be treated as such, as they already have. It's a real problem and it's the first one that needs to be fixed.