The US, gun violence, and gun control

[Guest American Woman]

Which just proves that you never admit to being wrong!

Excuse me, but I wasn't wrong.

[The_Squid]

Excuse me, but I wasn't wrong.

You said they don't happen every two weeks, and he showed that they do happen every 2 weeks.... if you weren't wrong, then who was? lol

[Guest American Woman]

You said they don't happen every two weeks, and he showed that they do happen every 2 weeks.... if you weren't wrong, then who was? lol

No, I didn't say mass murders didn't happen every two weeks. The comment that I said is false was: "1 mass murder by guns every two weeks....." I said that was a false statement, and it is. When a source was provided saying there's 1 mass murder every two weeks (note the absence of "by guns"), my comment was "just proves that one need not use guns to commit "mass murder." One third of those mass murders were not "by gun," but by other means.

[WIP]

No, I didn't say mass murders didn't happen every two weeks. The comment that I said is false was: "1 mass murder by guns every two weeks....." I said that was a false statement, and it is. When a source was provided saying there's 1 mass murder every two weeks (note the absence of "by guns"), my comment was "just proves that one need not use guns to commit "mass murder." One third of those mass murders were not "by gun," but by other means.

So, as long as it's an average of mass murder by firearms every three weeks, you're still going to run around claiming to be right on the issue. The connection between easy access to assault weapons and mass murder should be obvious to anyone with eyes to see.

[Guest American Woman]

So, as long as it's an average of mass murder by firearms every three weeks, you're still going to run around claiming to be right on the issue. The connection between easy access to assault weapons and mass murder should be obvious to anyone with eyes to see.

What I claim to be "right" on is that "mass murders by gun" don't happen once every two weeks. That you would accuse me of not admitting when I'm wrong - when I wasn't wrong - and then not own up to it, and try to turn it around on me, says a lot about you.

[cybercoma]

"mass murders by gun" don't happen once every two weeks.

You're right.

2/3 of the mass killings that happen every two weeks involve guns. The second largest method is fire.

[WIP]

What I claim to be "right" on is that "mass murders by gun" don't happen once every two weeks. That you would accuse me of not admitting when I'm wrong - when I wasn't wrong - and then not own up to it, and try to turn it around on me, says a lot about you.

I'll admit that math was never my strong suit at school; so you tell me: does two thirds of mass murders by firearms every two weeks equal a firearms mass murder every three weeks or not? Otherwise what are you trying to argue your way out of?

[msj]

And yet.....

http://www.delmarvan...every-two-weeks

Ok, let's try to settle this.

According to the link above there are 156 incidents between 2006 and 2010 inclusive (i.e. 5 years).

So, to apply this as an average figure over that time we can look at it as:

5 years * 52 weeks in a year = 260.

So, if there were an incident every week we would expect to see 260 incidents, right?

If there were an incident every second week we would expect to see 130 incidents, right?

156 incidents would then mean the average is about every 1.66 weeks is it not?

Does this help?

Ok, let's just look at guns then. Take out the 15 incidents for fire and the 20 for knife attacks:

So, now we have 121 incidents with guns which is just under 2 weeks (which is once every 15 days).

However, keep in mind that data is missing from DC for 2006 to 2008, Florida from 2006-2010 and Nebraska from 2006-2008.

So, who knows, maybe there are so many mass killings by fire and/or knife in DC, FL, and NE to bring it down to every week?

Somehow I doubt that - I would guess that it would move closer to the 2 week average.

(edited to add the once every 15 days above)

Edited December 20, 2012 by msj

[Guest American Woman]

I'll admit that math was never my strong suit at school; so you tell me: does two thirds of mass murders by firearms every two weeks equal a firearms mass murder every three weeks or not? Otherwise what are you trying to argue your way out of?

When did this become about a firearm mass murder every three weeks? Good Lord. I never made a comment about that claim, so I'm not trying to argue my way out of anything; I just pointed it out when I knew the mass murders by gun were incorrectly stated.

By the way, I see you've had nothing to say about the false accusation you made about me; having trouble admitting that I was right, eh? Ironic.

Edited to add: I have to wonder how many read to the end of the article.

During those five years, more died from migraines and falling out of chairs than were murdered by mass killers, according to death records kept by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Three times as many people perished from sunstroke.

Edited December 20, 2012 by American Woman

[msj]

The issue I have with the link that I borrowed from punked in post #283 above is that the article states this:

A third of mass killings didn't involve guns at all. In 15 incidents, the victims died in a fire. In 20 others, the killer used a knife or a blunt object.

The problem I have is that that is 22% of the 156 incidents and it is not clear if this mean there are another 16 incidents of mass killings due to other than guns, fire, and knifes or if the author did the math wrong.

Let's rerun the math for 105 incidents just for guns (i.e. go with the 1/3 not gun related) over 260 weeks.

This works out to one incident every 17.3 days which is pretty darn close to once every 2 weeks when one considers the lack of data from Florida, DC, and NE.

(edited to correct the math)

Edited December 20, 2012 by msj

[bush_cheney2004]

During those five years, more died from migraines and falling out of chairs than were murdered by mass killers, according to death records kept by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Three times as many people perished from sunstroke.

That really puts "mass killings" in perspective. I bet more people die falling off of ladders.

[Wilber]

During those five years, more died from migraines and falling out of chairs than were murdered by mass killers, according to death records kept by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Three times as many people perished from sunstroke.

Mmm. I doubt 20 six year olds ever fell out of their chairs and killed themselves in unison. You continue to amaze me AW, putting a household accident or sunstroke in the same category as a mass shooting of children. Good Lord indeed.

[eyeball]

I can see how I could use a chair and ladder as a weapon but how would I go about using a migraine to mass murder other people? I suppose I could even use a child in the same manner as a chair. But a migraine?

At the end of the day though it just makes a whole lot more sense to use a gun.

[bush_cheney2004]

Every day in the U.S., about 250 people are shot by firearms (including suicide attempts), and a third of those will die. This includes children who are six years old.

[Wilber]

Every day in the U.S., about 250 people are shot by firearms (including suicide attempts), and a third of those will die. This includes children who are six years old.

And they never got the chance to fall out of their chair.

[bush_cheney2004]

And they never got the chance to fall out of their chair.

Or get shot in a "mass shooting", which is rarer than fatal falls off chairs or ladders.

[Wilber]

Or get shot in a "mass shooting", which is rarer than fatal falls off chairs or ladders.

When people present statistics that show what your love affair with guns costs your country, you blow them off and come up with crap statistics that put seniors falling out of a chair in the same category as mass murder. You and AW really should be ashamed.

[Bryan]

Every day in the U.S., about 250 people are shot by firearms (including suicide attempts), and a third of those will die. This includes children who are six years old.

All the more reason to put much stricter controls on access to those guns.

[bush_cheney2004]

All the more reason to put much stricter controls on access to those guns.

Stricter controls are not about access, but new sales. 270,000,000 firearms are already in circulation. Firearms are very durable goods.

[bush_cheney2004]

When people present statistics that show what your love affair with guns costs your country, you blow them off and come up with crap statistics that put seniors falling out of a chair in the same category as mass murder. You and AW really should be ashamed.

Cry me a river....you don't seem to have any problem driving on America's interstate system, which also kills thousands.

[dre]

In the heat of the moment any weapon will do.

No theres a big difference.

Try attacking a bunch of people with a bat or knife. Youll have a fight on your hands and youll probably get your ass kicked. Any coward can kill easily with a gun though.

[Guest]

No theres a big difference.

Try attacking a bunch of people with a bat or knife. Youll have a fight on your hands and youll probably get your ass kicked. Any coward can kill easily with a gun though.

The obvious answer to that is for the bunch of people to have concealed weapons. He would still get his ass kicked. With the added bonus that he wouldn't get a shot (sorry) at doing it again.

[Wilber]

Cry me a river....you don't seem to have any problem driving on America's interstate system, which also kills thousands.

Believe me I'm not crying but if you're not just being a troll, I am mystified.

[dre]

The obvious answer to that is for the bunch of people to have concealed weapons. He would still get his ass kicked. With the added bonus that he wouldn't get a shot (sorry) at doing it again.

Who the hell is gonna want to live in a society where you need to be armed all the time just to be safe?

[WWWTT]

During those five years, more died from migraines and falling out of chairs than were murdered by mass killers, according to death records kept by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Three times as many people perished from sunstroke.

Good point American Woman!

But I believe that there is more going on in these stats then what some may think.

If a fall from a chair is enough to kill you then you've got some serious health issues!!!Like why are you falling from your chair in the first place?

Same goes for the migrane issue.

Actually,everyone will eventually die.This is a natural process of life.

But in society,murder is froned upon and measures are taken to prevent.Just as in ealth and health care.

WWWTT