Teachers Start work-to-rule Today.. Refuse to talk to parents

[Fletch 27]

http://www.thestar.c...o-rule-campaign

Toronto’s public high school teachers began a “selective” job action this morning in response to a controversial bill.

After postponing for five days of negotiation, the Ontario Secondary School Teachers’ Federation did not reach an agreement with the Ontario government regarding Bill 115.

“OSSTF/FEESO is open to further discussions at both the provincial and local levels; however, at this time, no further talks are scheduled,” it said in a news release sent out early Monday.

As a result, Toronto District School Board teachers will not fill in for absent teachers, talk to parents after hours or take part in provincial standardized tests.

The TDSB is one of 20 school boards in Ontario taking part in the protest.

By only performing their legislated duties, teachers are protesting Bill 115, which freezes wages, cuts sick days and benefits, and limits their collective bargaining rights.

The bill also gives the government the right to step in quickly if teachers go on strike

So they leave many questions in Parents minds on how thier child is progressing on the Progress reports and now REFUSE to talk to Parents?

Many posters here commented that if a parent had a concern over the progress report being a single sentence,, they could talk to the "Teacher"..... Seem that argument went out the Window allong with the Childs right to an education!

Jacee: "If parents want more info, they can book an interview with the teacher"-Seems they CANT! Your position now?

Jacee: "I always think it's more important what involved parents think"- PArents are no longer able to be involved

MadMax: "Just had Parent Teacher interviews here." - NOt any more! Your Position now?

Mighty AC: "How are report cards with terse comments and the option of an in person interview "effecting the Students ability to learn"? _ No more "Option".. Care to comment ?

MiddleClassCenterist: "I have not seen fair headlines from the MSM. "TEACHERS REFUSE TO TALK TO PARENTS"- Well NOW U HAVE!

SImply sickening....

Edited November 12, 2012 by Fletch 27

[Boges]

It looks like a few of the sacrificial lambs, I mean leadership candidates, don't agree with the government's handling of this situation. Gerrard Kennedy being one of them.

The truth is, there's little teachers can do to effect change as the current government is a lame duck. I'm assuming the new leader will have a different approach to this matter as most of the major ministers in the government have declined to run for leadership.

Also an election will have to be called soon after a leader is named. Whoever the new leader is will have no mandate.

Sandra Pupatello's comments have been troubling as she wants to win a seat before a general election and thinks the public doesn't want another election.

[The_Squid]

talk to parents after hours...

How come your title says "refuse to talk to parents" but doesn't add the "after hours" part? That's disingenuous. False. And untrue.

And why is this a new topic? There is already a post about this.

[cybercoma]

Teachers refuse to do work for which they are not paid.

Got it.

I do too.

[Big Guy]

Perhaps it is time to delineate an exact job description for teachers? If the union went that route I do not think that it would be beneficial for the students or the teachers in the long run. I think that some time soon the teachers are going to have to decide if they want to be perceived as professionals like doctors or like clock punchers like those in the clerical public service. This may be a line they do not want to cross.

[Shakeyhands]

Seems to me that they get paid to teach our children and report on their progress.

[Guest]

I do work I don't get paid for. I think a lot of salaried employees do. It's just not possible to switch off totally when one leaves work.

Then there's the damn Blackberry. That doesn't help.

Edited November 12, 2012 by bcsapper

[jacee]

http://www.thestar.c...o-rule-campaign

Toronto’s public high school teachers began a “selective” job action this morning in response to a controversial bill.

After postponing for five days of negotiation, the Ontario Secondary School Teachers’ Federation did not reach an agreement with the Ontario government regarding Bill 115.

“OSSTF/FEESO is open to further discussions at both the provincial and local levels; however, at this time, no further talks are scheduled,” it said in a news release sent out early Monday.

As a result, Toronto District School Board teachers will not fill in for absent teachers, talk to parents after hours or take part in provincial standardized tests.

The TDSB is one of 20 school boards in Ontario taking part in the protest.

By only performing their legislated duties, teachers are protesting Bill 115, which freezes wages, cuts sick days and benefits, and limits their collective bargaining rights.

The bill also gives the government the right to step in quickly if teachers go on strike

So they leave many questions in Parents minds on how thier child is progressing on the Progress reports and now REFUSE to talk to Parents?

Many posters here commented that if a parent had a concern over the progress report being a single sentence,, they could talk to the "Teacher"..... Seem that argument went out the Window allong with the Childs right to an education!

Jacee: "If parents want more info, they can book an interview with the teacher"-Seems they CANT! Your position now?

Jacee: "I always think it's more important what involved parents think"- PArents are no longer able to be involved

MadMax: "Just had Parent Teacher interviews here." - NOt any more! Your Position now?

Mighty AC: "How are report cards with terse comments and the option of an in person interview "effecting the Students ability to learn"? _ No more "Option".. Care to comment ?

MiddleClassCenterist: "I have not seen fair headlines from the MSM. "TEACHERS REFUSE TO TALK TO PARENTS"- Well NOW U HAVE!

SImply sickening....

Well ... I'd just like to point out that you've quoted from a thread about ETFO - elementary teachers - while this article is about OSSTF - secondary teachers.

So ... ... tell me again how you are well-informed enough about the issues to even form an intelligent opinion?

[Michael Hardner]

How come your title says "refuse to talk to parents" but doesn't add the "after hours" part? That's disingenuous. False. And untrue.

Also - it's not a full work-to-rule. They're selecting certain services to withdraw, not all of them.

It doesn't matter because Fletch is already at full outrage. There's no reason to keep him happy as we discussed in the last thread. He's already upset, so the teachers may as well strike - he won't be in their camp.

[Fletch 27]

Ahem... The star called it "work to rule"..... Maybe u know more than them? It's adolescence hijacking.. Take it up with the star if you don't like the terminology. Ooooh... Not a "full work to rule" as you say... Would you be fully content when the teachers shout "SCAB" at the students, Micheal? Is that full work to rule? Maybe threaten grades for those high school students who do not support the cause? Is that "full work to rule"?

Yes, maybe they will talk to parents during school hours? On their lunch breaks? um yea.... Maybe during their classes? Yes, I'm sure they will find a way to talk to a parent with a child that recieved a single sentence report card that read "child performs poorly"...

Yes Michael, I'm pissed off... I care for my child's education....

It's poor parents that allows this crappie to happen... Since the "70's"....

73 percent of Canadians want this stopped... Time to stop it

Edited November 13, 2012 by Fletch 27

[Fletch 27]

Yes jacee... It's wide-spread teacher manipulation of all students.... Not just pre-school... It's grade school and high school... This is why I posted the topic. Maybe not all students and children are equal to you?

So you are okay with no teacher parent/parent meetings now? Ahhhhhhhhh yes... I'm sure u are. All in favor of neglecting children in favor of the union say "eye"!

Shame

Edited November 13, 2012 by Fletch 27

[jacee]

Yes jacee... It's wide-spread teacher manipulation of all students.... Not just pre-school... It's grade school and high school... This is why I posted the topic. Maybe not all students and children are equal to you?

So you are okay with no teacher parent/parent meetings now? Ahhhhhhhhh yes... I'm sure u are. All in favor of neglecting children in favor of the union say "eye"!

Shame

Secondary teachers aren't seeing parents after hours.

Elementary teachers still are.

Just so you are clear what you're fuming about.

If that means you're missing a critical parent-teacher meeting ... I do hope it can be arranged.

[jacee]

Ahem... The star called it "work to rule"..... Maybe u know more than them? It's adolescence hijacking.. Take it up with the star if you don't like the terminology. Ooooh... Not a "full work to rule" as you say... Would you be fully content when the teachers shout "SCAB" at the students, Micheal? Is that full work to rule? Maybe threaten grades for those high school students who do not support the cause? Is that "full work to rule"?

You can't be serious.

Can you support these accusations?

[Fletch 27]

So secondary students are just that.......Secondary? Way to stand up for children.... Again, back to my original post... Teachers are refusing to see parents!

Again Jacee.... These are not accusations.... Just like I believed they would eliminate parent teacher nights.... What's next from this radical bunch of terrorists? Teachers calling children scabs is not a far stretch now.

Again, so you are okay with the teachers avoiding the parent nights now? Change of heart or are you okay as it's high school students now?

Oh, your "I do hope that can be arranged" is very comforting... Hopeful.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Fletch 27

[bleeding heart]

.... What's next from this radical bunch of terrorists? Teachers calling children scabs is not a far stretch now.

Terrorists?

Calling children "scabs"?

Take a deep breath......

[jacee]

So secondary students are just that.......Secondary? Way to stand up for children.... Again, back to my original post... Teachers are refusing to see parents!

Again Jacee.... These are not accusations.... Just like I believed they would eliminate parent teacher nights.... What's next from this radical bunch of terrorists? Teachers calling children scabs is not a far stretch now.

Again, so you are okay with the teachers avoiding the parent nights now? Change of heart or are you okay as it's high school students now?

Oh, your "I do hope that can be arranged" is very comforting... Hopeful.

You're out to lunch Fletch, way over the top with defamatory unfounded accusations and silly fearmongering.

Does your extreeeeeeeeeeme concern for children's welfare lead you to do anything helpful in the community, or do you just rail at their teachers in 'sound and fury signifying ... nothing'?

It isn't about the kids for you, is it Fletch?

It's only about your hatred of the unions.

[PIK]

You're out to lunch Fletch, way over the top with defamatory unfounded accusations and silly fearmongering.

Does your extreeeeeeeeeeme concern for children's welfare lead you to do anything helpful in the community, or do you just rail at their teachers in 'sound and fury signifying ... nothing'?

It isn't about the kids for you, is it Fletch?

It's only about your hatred of the unions.

Well jacee, this action of not even patrolling the halls or cafateria, is going to give the bullies freedom to go after whoever they want, and if one child is serious hurt or screwed up by these actions, criminal charges should be made. This action is made to go after the kids and kids only, that is thier only barginning trick. These people are the best paid teachers in the world with a pension plan nobody can top or thier retirement. This is nothing but greed and as dingwall himself said. ''I am entitled to my entitlements'' a taker mentality has become part of our way of life, and that is very dangerous, because eventually the rest of the people are going to get very fed up with this entitlement shit and will strike out and I don't mean picket lines.

[Fletch 27]

You're out to lunch Fletch, way over the top with defamatory unfounded accusations and silly fearmongering.

Does your extreeeeeeeeeeme concern for children's welfare lead you to do anything helpful in the community, or do you just rail at their teachers in 'sound and fury signifying ... nothing'?

It isn't about the kids for you, is it Fletch?

It's only about your hatred of the unions.

Well, Other than supllying the grade 10 and 11 Elecronics classe with supplies like Parts cabinets, soldering irons, materials out of my companies pocket, no.. Well i did also connect them with a mentor program at Devry.., but thats all i could do..

IM fearmongering? Have a look at what the Unions are doing?

Again, You are now ok with the lack of teacher/parent meetings? After the report card thing? Simply answer me that

[jacee]

Well jacee, this action of not even patrolling the halls or cafateria, is going to give the bullies freedom to go after whoever they want, and if one child is serious hurt or screwed up by these actions, criminal charges should be made. This action is made to go after the kids and kids only, that is thier only barginning trick. These people are the best paid teachers in the world with a pension plan nobody can top or thier retirement. This is nothing but greed and as dingwall himself said. ''I am entitled to my entitlements'' a taker mentality has become part of our way of life, and that is very dangerous, because eventually the rest of the people are going to get very fed up with this entitlement shit and will strike out and I don't mean picket lines.

Is that a crazoid threat PIK?

Should I alert the authorities in case you lose it?

[jacee]

Well, Other than supllying the grade 10 and 11 Elecronics classe with supplies like Parts cabinets, soldering irons, materials out of my companies pocket, no.. Well i did also connect them with a mentor program at Devry.., but thats all i could do..

Good work.

IM fearmongering? Have a look at what the Unions are doing?

Again, You are now ok with the lack of teacher/parent meetings? After the report card thing? Simply answer me that

Again ...

The 'report card thing' is elementary teachers.

The 'parent interview' thing is secondary teachers.

The credibility of your concerns would be better if you appeared to know the facts and understand the issues.

Do you understand contract stripping?

The proposed legislation would strip contracts negotiated in good faith by unions, though apparently in bad faith by our government ... and now the government is in hiding and can't even be held publicly accountable.

When Mike Harris stripped teachers' contracts, the plumbers, electricians, carpenter, steelworkers, media etc unions supported the teachers.

You really are overreacting, imo.

There's no danger to kids.

[Michael Hardner]

Well jacee, this action of not even patrolling the halls or cafateria, is going to give the bullies freedom to go after whoever they want, and if one child is serious hurt or screwed up by these actions, criminal charges should be made.

Right. If it's not in their job description then they're doing it out of professional courtesy. How much of a waste of resources would it be to bring such a charge ... only to have it dropped.

Seriously, is there anybody on this board who understands how the system works who can stand in for the crop of critics on this thread ?

So far we have "fire them" "charge them with a crime"... if somebody doesn't stand up to debate this reasonably on the other side, then I will do it myself.

[Fletch 27]

Michael, I have raised this already and you have glossed over it. Please do counter my following proposal:

In contract negotiations in THIS round... The Government can KEEP current pay-plans/compensation plans (Keep pay flat for 1 year with an agreed upon increase of say 1.5% next year ,maybe even 2,,, WITH the agreement that teachers will be Graded 2 times per year with possible repercussions should the teacher perform poorly.. i.e summer-school for the teachers. With the agreement on pay increase, they will ALL be required to perform after hours duties (As they do now) with no possibility of action as we are seeing now.. A fair wage for fair work....

This would alow the teacgers to continue with the greed but alow the taxpayer to get what they pay for.. a QUALITY instructor at a Quality wage.. With NO fear of repercussions as we are seeing now... Safety and child welfare should always come first.... Yes, Please do counter my point.

A side-note, now our children are in harms way...

:

“In secondary schools, inadequate supervision can result in an increase in bullying, vandalism, assaults, behavioral issues, theft, graffiti, drug activity, truancy and verbal abuse,” warned council president Ken Arnott. “If supervision is withdrawn, or if on-calls for absent teachers are not covered, schools will not be safe places for learning.”

[Michael Hardner]

I'm not sure how I missed it.

In contract negotiations in THIS round... The Government can KEEP current pay-plans/compensation plans (Keep pay flat for 1 year with an agreed upon increase of say 1.5% next year ,maybe even 2,,, WITH the agreement that teachers will be Graded 2 times per year with possible repercussions should the teacher perform poorly.. i.e summer-school for the teachers. With the agreement on pay increase, they will ALL be required to perform after hours duties (As they do now) with no possibility of action as we are seeing now.. A fair wage for fair work....

That doesn't sound too bad to me - and thanks for going a bit further on the detail.

I do wonder, though, if it's in the best interests of both sides to keep some kind of activity as a fire-wall for strike action. With the consternation and attention that all of this is causing, it makes you wonder if it's not better to keep some activities as a way for teachers to work-to-rule without greatly inconveniencing people.

This would alow the teacgers to continue with the greed but alow the taxpayer to get what they pay for.. a QUALITY instructor at a Quality wage.. With NO fear of repercussions as we are seeing now... Safety and child welfare should always come first.... Yes, Please do counter my point.

The problem is that the devil is in the details - and a huge bureaucracy that does such a bad job of keeping the basics up to snuff (such as cleaning and repairing schools) would end up firing great teachers and keeping awful ones. I guarantee you that. Maybe introduction of a transparent employer/labour committee to discuss 3rd way options would be a way around this. The current bureaucracy is entrenched and they don't have time to focus on the "little things" like keeping schools clean, dealing with bullies, safety etc.

You can maybe sense my cynicism here.

[Fletch 27]

I'm not sure how I missed it.

That doesn't sound too bad to me - and thanks for going a bit further on the detail.

I do wonder, though, if it's in the best interests of both sides to keep some kind of activity as a fire-wall for strike action. With the consternation and attention that all of this is causing, it makes you wonder if it's not better to keep some activities as a way for teachers to work-to-rule without greatly inconveniencing people.

The problem is that the devil is in the details - and a huge bureaucracy that does such a bad job of keeping the basics up to snuff (such as cleaning and repairing schools) would end up firing great teachers and keeping awful ones. I guarantee you that. Maybe introduction of a transparent employer/labour committee to discuss 3rd way options would be a way around this. The current bureaucracy is entrenched and they don't have time to focus on the "little things" like keeping schools clean, dealing with bullies, safety etc.

You can maybe sense my cynicism here.

Cleaning and repairing schools is handled by Union contracts with SEPERATE unions.. this is VERY entrenched in the TDSB.. Tenders ONLY go out to Unionized contractors (hence the cost). Make the Cleaners and maintenance private, save money exponentially as we have seen with Garbage collection and use THAT money to hire a 3rd party "Evaluator" for the teachers. a completely sperate entity that would failry test the teachers 2 times a year.

With over 70 percent of Canadian opposing any strike position for teachers,,, simply eliminate that option..

Again, "

The poll, conducted from August 24 to 29, also notes that Canadians appear to favour removing teachers' ability to strike. More than seven in 10 of those polled believe teachers should be considered an essential service and should not have the right to strike.

Read it on Global News: Global News | Poll: Majority of Canadians worried about labour unrest at public elementary schools

Edited November 13, 2012 by Fletch 27

[Boges]

I don't like the fact that teacher's can withhold something very important to the education system because it's not in the contract. It should be.

It's like they sat down at the bargaining table and management said "we'd like you to patrol the halls between classes"

Teachers: "We'll do that but don't put it in the contract so we can withhold that service if we're cranky."

It's like extracurricular activities. If teachers can't be compelled to participate then parents or other volunteers should be allowed to replace them.