I love America!

[Sleipnir]

This is true. When traveling abroad, people can't tell a Canadian from an American - unless there's a Maple Leaf on one's backpack.

Eh?

[carepov]

How do you reconcile your position with the idea that a Canadian identity is defined as not being American.....purposely so ? At nearly every turn, anything "American-style" is to be held suspect and dangerous to public and private policy in Canada.

First of all, I disagree "with the idea that a Canadian identity is defined as not being American", this is definitely part of our identity as it is natural to compare ourselves with Americans, just as I assume Kiwis do with Aussies.

Second, when it comes to many public policies I am suspect of "American-style" because of their inferiority, I am specifically thinking of judicial and health care policies. That said, you do have a point in that there are many Canadians that exagerate the differences and "dangers".

[bleeding heart]

Eh?

She's only saying that we are roughly indistinguishable, within our own respective countries as well as without. My own experience inclines me to agree.

[bush_cheney2004]

First of all, I disagree "with the idea that a Canadian identity is defined as not being American", this is definitely part of our identity as it is natural to compare ourselves with Americans, just as I assume Kiwis do with Aussies.

So you agree that Canadians define themselves as not being American but hold an opposite view about similarities? You have not reconciled the issue.

Second, when it comes to many public policies I am suspect of "American-style" because of their inferiority, I am specifically thinking of judicial and health care policies. That said, you do have a point in that there are many Canadians that exagerate the differences and "dangers".

Americans do it too...."Canadian-style" health care is definitely inferior to many Americans (and even some Canadians).

[carepov]

You might want to double check your knowledge of Japan. Just saying.

Thank you, I double-checked and must admit that I should rethink my "collectivist rating" for Japan.

[carepov]

So you agree that Canadians define themselves as not being American but hold an opposite view about similarities? You have not reconciled the issue.

No I do not agree. I'll try again:

Canadians PARTLY define themselves as not being American. There are differences between our countries but most Canadians overstate the differences.

What do I need to reconcile?

Americans do it too...."Canadian-style" health care is definitely inferior to many Americans (and even some Canadians).

Yes, many Americans would have inferior health care if they moved to Canada. Most would have the same health care and many would have better care. On average, health care results would be about the same with the Canadian system costing about 30 % less.

[jbg]

She's only saying that we are roughly indistinguishable, within our own respective countries as well as without. My own experience inclines me to agree.

Yes. How often do we hear "U.S. and Canada" in advertising or other discussions?

[bush_cheney2004]

Canadians PARTLY define themselves as not being American. There are differences between our countries but most Canadians overstate the differences.

What do I need to reconcile?

Unreconciled is the fact that Americans do not do this vis-a-vis Canada and the American identity. Yet you maintain they are very similar. Canadians pay far more attention to the U.S. than do Americans to Canada.

[carepov]

Unreconciled is the fact that Americans do not do this vis-a-vis Canada and the American identity. Yet you maintain they are very similar. Canadians pay far more attention to the U.S. than do Americans to Canada.

Yes, it is true (and completely logical) that "Canadians pay far more attention to the U.S. than do Americans to Canada". I would bet that this is true whenever a relatively small country neigbours a large country, or even a state.

I would assume that Oklahomans pay more attention to Texas than Texans to Oklahoma. Are Oklahomans not very similar to Texans?

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, it is true (and completely logical) that "Canadians pay far more attention to the U.S. than do Americans to Canada". I would bet that this is true whenever a relatively small country neigbours a large country, or even a state.

Now you have injected the notion of large vs. small...yet another difference. It is not always true (Japan and China also take cues from the USA compared to each other.)

I would assume that Oklahomans pay more attention to Texas than Texans to Oklahoma. Are Oklahomans not very similar to Texans?

No, the relationship is not the same. Is Quebec not very similar to Ontario? See how that doesn't work?

[cybercoma]

Quebec is to Ontario as Oklahoma is to Texas? Really now?

[Sleipnir]

She's only saying that we are roughly indistinguishable, within our own respective countries as well as without. My own experience inclines me to agree.

I was making a joke in the reference to what American Woman said about Canadians are only distinguishable from Americans by wearing the pin showing the Canadian maple leaf flag. I do say 'eh' quite a bit and in the states when I visit there I get a fair amount of 'are you a Canadian?' question.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Guest American Woman]

I was making a joke in the reference to what American Woman said about Canadians are only distinguishable from Americans by wearing the pin showing the Canadian maple leaf flag. I do say 'eh' quite a bit and in the states when I visit there I get a fair amount of 'are you a Canadian?' question.

Some Americans say "eh" too, though - it's a regional thing. I've heard it on tv shows, too. I've been asked, in the States, if I'm Canadian. I've been asked in other parts of the world if I'm Canadian. I've also been asked if I'm British, German, Swedish, Norwegian ....... so there you go.

But let's face it. If someone outside the country met you and me, they would have no idea that you're a Canadian and I'm an American. Do you disagree?

[Sleipnir]

But let's face it. If someone outside the country met you and me, they would have no idea that you're a Canadian and I'm an American. Do you disagree?

I agree with that statement.

[bush_cheney2004]

I was making a joke in the reference to what American Woman said about Canadians are only distinguishable from Americans by wearing the pin showing the Canadian maple leaf flag. I do say 'eh' quite a bit and in the states when I visit there I get a fair amount of 'are you a Canadian?' question.

With some exceptions, Canadians lose their American cloaking device the minute they speak. We have already covered this in an ealier thread "aboat" such things.

[jacee]

...or the resident America/American member haters here

I love America! And American relatives, friends, neighbours, the people in all the places I've visited, the geography, climates ... love it all.

Not fussy about Republican politics and some aspects of US policy ... and not fussy about you.

simply cannot handle astute and biting retorts that not only present Canada/some Canadians in a true and conflicted light,

Do Canadians go to your boards and spout off in "biting retorts" the "true and conflicted" US?

Rude ... trolling to incite.

but exposes the pervasiveness of all things American in their existence.

We don't need your help with that!

Resentment boils over as personal attacks on not only American MLW members, but anyone else who may agree with them. They lose their cool and lash out in frustration, demanding that opposing views be silenced as "trolling".

Or ... like me they're just not fussy about your "biting" and "conflicted" ... er ... 'contribution' here.

Edited November 12, 2012 by jacee

[jacee]

With some exceptions, Canadians lose their American cloaking device the minute they speak. We have already covered this in an ealier thread "aboat" such things.

Pretty much ... and then we get a warmer welcome.

[bush_cheney2004]

I love America! And American relatives, friends, neighbours, the people in all the places I've visited, the geography, climates ... love it all.

Not fussy about Republican politics and some aspects of US policy ... and not fussy about you.

We're happy for you.....America only exists to make your life interesting.

Do Canadians go to your boards and spout off in "biting retorts" the "true and conflicted" US?

Rude ... trolling to incite.

Yes, I am sure that some do. This is not "your board".

Or ... like me they're just not fussy about your contribution here.

Maybe...define fussy. If America and Americans were not pervasive here I would have flitted away years ago.

[bush_cheney2004]

Pretty much ... and then we get a warmer welcome.

Yep....this happened live on NBC's air during the 2010 Winter Olympics. A Canadian staffer was "outed" live.

[jacee]

How do you reconcile your position with the idea that a Canadian identity is defined as not being American.....purposely so ? At nearly every turn, anything "American-style" is to be held suspect and dangerous to public and private policy in Canada.

Ya right ... if you say so.

Trolling to incite ...

I rest my case.

[carepov]

Now you have injected the notion of large vs. small...yet another difference. It is not always true (Japan and China also take cues from the USA compared to each other.)

No, the relationship is not the same. Is Quebec not very similar to Ontario? See how that doesn't work?

I'm not sure what your point is anymore?

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm not sure what your point is anymore?

I am merely challenging your notion of what differences and similarities are. In short, it would seem that the Canadian identity wants it both ways...not too close...not too far from the Americans.

[carepov]

I am merely challenging your notion of what differences and similarities are. In short, it would seem that the Canadian identity wants it both ways...not too close...not too far from the Americans.

OK, Canada and the US - like they would say in Thailand, "same, same, but different"

[bush_cheney2004]

OK, Canada and the US - like they would say in Thailand, "same, same, but different"

Agreed...I am collecting quite a few books by Canadian authors on this very topic. It's an old issue.

[carepov]

Here is a good article on this issue:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/11/12/f-rfa-macdonald-american-neighbours.html