2000 Chinese workers coming to work Chinese mine -- in Canada

[Michael Hardner]

I'd like to know if there were no applicants for the positions, I thought a company had to prove they couldn't fill the positions with Canadians before bringing in outside labour.

I would also like to see proof of some of the assertions on here rather than pointing to an opinion piece.

It wouldn't be hard though - who would apply for remote mining jobs at minimum wage, assuming that is the pay ?

[cybercoma]

It's standard protocol to provide a link when asked for one, though. Do either of you have a link or no ?

Here you go: http://www.internati...lang=eng&view=d (edit: the link to the actual agreement is at the bottom of that page)

Here's commentary on it from an investment law expert at Osgoode Hall: http://thetyee.ca/Op...estment-Treaty/

Edited October 22, 2012 by cybercoma

[Argus]

I have no issue with migrant workers if don't have our own skilled workers to fill the positions but that arbitration in china bit if true is going too far...

I have an issue with migrant workers while we still have so many unemployed. Mining is not so skilled people can't be taught how to do it. But it doesn't look like this Chinese company made any serious effort to find Canadian miners. They wanted to bring in obedient slave workers from China from the start.

[Argus]

I'd like to know if there were no applicants for the positions, I thought a company had to prove they couldn't fill the positions with Canadians before bringing in outside labour.

In theory. All it really has to show is it advertised the position. Asking for miners who speak Mandarin was bound to get little response, though, which would be by design. They don't have to pay Chinese workers the same rate as they would Canadian workers.

[scribblet]

Canadian miners make a lot more than minimum wage about $34.00

If the recruitment process and tactics are against our laws then they should be charged. I'm not sure that actually requiring Mandarin is legal, did they do that or is that supposition ?

I just read that the gov't is investigating

http://resourceclips.com/tag/canadian-dehua-lvliang-international-mines-group-inc/

[TimG]

I already told you; I don't need to provide you with sources.

I accepted your original excuse and found the actual agreement myself and posted the link (largely because I could not dismiss your claims as nonsense because I knew nothing of the agreement and felt you could be right). I looked but could not find anything that supported your claim in the agreement. Now you refuse to back up your claim by referencing the the text of the agreement which I provided. I think it is pretty obvious that you cannot do that so you attempt to obfuscate rather than admit you made a mistake by repeating hyperbole from some biased source. Edited October 22, 2012 by TimG

[wyly]

corporations don't want to train people, they expect them fully trained, experienced and young...coal mining is dirty, physically demanding and as with all coal mines come with more than average risk for injuries and death...a quick job search turned up 70 underground positions in Grande Cache pay $25-35 per hr, 3 years experienced required...how many coal mining schools do we have in Canada? without a school how do you learn, and how do you get a job if the company is only hiring experienced workers?...they hire migrants, when I lived there the miners were from nova scotia and england/wales ...

corporations have zero soul, they care bugger all for the people or the country, shareholders and the bottom line is the only concern...expecting a foreign corporation hiring foreign migrants to give a rats ass about us and our laws is extra delusional...a Chinese company hiring Chinese workers playing by Chinese rules while in Canada and taking our resources??? I would just as soon leave it in the ground...

[login]

Somewhat strange circumstances. Its not like there arn't 2000 Chinese people in BC.

Bottom line though is, it is their business. If you want more controls you need to put them accross the board to apply to everyone not just foreign investors and businesspeople operating in Canada. WTO junk.

Its not like Canada was unable to organize a crown corporation to do the same thing.

its junk like this that has me question why the federal government doesn't raise income rather than tax people through resource management.

Then you wonder why state owned economies like China are buying out our resource sector.

Edited October 23, 2012 by login

[Argus]

Canadian miners make a lot more than minimum wage about $34.00

If the recruitment process and tactics are against our laws then they should be charged. I'm not sure that actually requiring Mandarin is legal, did they do that or is that supposition ?

I just read that the gov't is investigating

http://resourceclips...ines-group-inc/

Not in the cite you posted you didn't.

[cybercoma]

Didn't the Conservatives pass a law where the company can pay migrant workers less than Canadians anyway?

[-TSS-]

The Chinese are little by little taking over the world.

[Topaz]

So when Harper stands up and say, "We have created 800,000 new jobs" what % is foreign workers?

[bush_cheney2004]

Seems to me that underpaid, exploited Chinese workers on Canadian railroad projects was just fine in the late 19th century. The reward for their efforts was a "head tax".

[scribblet]

Not in the cite you posted you didn't.

I think it was given in that article,

They should put the hiring of temp. workers on hold until this is looked into.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/government+investigating+claims+about+Chinese+recruiters+looking+miners/7432277/story.html

and

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Coal+mine+temporary+workers+will+here+years/7388916/story.html

“There is a true shortage of workers in northern B.C.,” said Campbell, a former employment standards officer in the B.C. Labour Ministry. “These Chinese workers are not going to be replaced by Canadians in this current economy. They will likely be nominated by the company for permanent residency and work in northern B.C. for years, if not decades.”

[Michael Hardner]

Workers should be celebrating this - they will soon have the same rights to migrate that companies do, it seems.

*cynical*

[PIK]

My understanding is ,this has been going on forever in BC. Need restraunt workers , order up a dozen chinese and they will show up in a week or 2, right from china.

[Michael Hardner]

Really it's just one step away from "Let's get this software built offshore"...

[Argus]

Didn't the Conservatives pass a law where the company can pay migrant workers less than Canadians anyway?

Yes.

[cybercoma]

Then the firm's decision just makes good economic sense.

[Argus]

My understanding is ,this has been going on forever in BC. Need restraunt workers , order up a dozen chinese and they will show up in a week or 2, right from china.

Not just BC. Do you know that despite double digit unemployment rates in the Atlantic provinces the fish plants there have to import workers from eastern europe? I don't now if this is just lazy people who would rather collect pogey than work an unpleasant job, employers who have discovered they can hire a much more obedient workforce that's completely under your thumb and gets less money, or a combination of both. But it stinks more than the fish plants do.

How is it, that in a province with an unemployment rate of 13.5%, that employers are forced to import labor from Thailand to work in fish plants?

If it is any solace, we are not alone. Fish plants in the other Atlantic provinces have been importing foreign workers for quite some time now. Derek Butler, Executive Director of the Association of Seafood Producers told CBC news that seafood processing companies in the Maritimes have for years imported workers to keep their operations running, with more than half the workforce at plants in New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island coming from either other provinces or outside Canada altogether.

http://www.polemicandparadox.com/2012/06/reflection-of-foreign-workers.html

[Michael Hardner]

Interesting snippet from the CBC article:

Bay de Verde Mayor Gerard Murphy said people in the community who want a job already have one, and noted that many people who are technically unemployed — that is, are collecting EI benefits — are employed in other parts of the country.

"Some people are working on a shift basis with so many weeks out of the province and returning for so many weeks," said Murphy.

"We also have individuals that have a certain season in which their work exists outside the province and when they return it's their down-season, and they know they will be heading back in the fall again, to return to their regular schedule."

[Argus]

Then the firm's decision just makes good economic sense.

It makes good economic sense to beat you up and take your money if I can get away with it.

But is it a moral way to behave, and should the government allow it?

[Argus]

Interesting snippet from the CBC article:

And why do you find this interesting?

[Michael Hardner]

And why do you find this interesting?

Well - the mayor seems to be letting people off the hook for playing the system, but I am not going to moralize about that here. I do think that people should only use such services as a last resort.

What I find interesting is that the system supports people working elsewhere, then flying home for half the year - to the point where it's not attractive for them to take minimum wage jobs for the off season. It seems that these folks have become tourists in their own towns, in effect.

[cybercoma]

It makes good economic sense to beat you up and take your money if I can get away with it.

But is it a moral way to behave, and should the government allow it?

Of course not.