Political corruption, private sector and organized crime

[jacee]

The Charbonneau Commission is revealing systemic corruption of public officials in Quebec and misuse of millions of taxpayer dollars.

I think we all know this isn't just a Quebec problem ... and yet this discussion board is eerily silent ... suspiciously silent.

Where's the outrage?

Is this just 'business as usual' in Canada?

http://www2.macleans.ca/tag/charbonneau-commission/

Quebec’s corruption inquiry heard explosive testimony from Zambito that certain companies, including his own, operated as a cartel and colluded on certain contracts to drive up the cost of contracts.

Various cuts were paid out on those rigged deals with a 2.5 per cent commission going to the Italian Mafia and three per cent to the governing municipal party in Montreal, beginning in 2005.

In addition, there were other bribes and arrangements with various city engineers and bureaucrats, including Surprenant, who benefited from cash as well as holidays and golfing excursions.

Zambito said the illicit practices extended to provincial contracts and contracts in other municipalities in Quebec. Notably, he testified he’d been made aware that a 2.5 per cent cut of contracts in Laval, north of Montreal, went directly to that city’s mayor.

Laval Mayor Gilles Vaillancourt has denied the allegations.

Zambito also admitted to illegally funding political parties at the provincial level, using the names of friends and families to circumvent donation rules.

But of course ...

Charbonneau commission won't explore federal parties

If Canadian taxpayers were hoping that the corruption inquiry now rocking Quebec might also explore federal political parties, they might be out of luck.

That's because officials at the inquiry have now explicitly stated that federal politics is none of their business while, in Ottawa, Elections Canada wouldn't confirm Wednesday whether it planned to follow up on any of the explosive testimony emerging at the probe.

Edited October 19, 2012 by jacee

[Fletch 27]

SIMPLE! The MEdia will not publish too much negativity but it was the UNIONS that were driving this!

Please, Have a look at the REAL Story!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/09/24/donnie-brasco-quebec-corruption-inquiry-testify.html

This is a UNION problem...

[PIK]

And now we are hearing the martin goverment paying for a MP's sons wedding. More to follow.

[jacee]

SIMPLE! The MEdia will not publish too much negativity but it was the UNIONS that were driving this!

Please, Have a look at the REAL Story!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/09/24/donnie-brasco-quebec-corruption-inquiry-testify.html

This is a UNION problem...

This is a CRIME problem.

And they can only do the crimes if politicians (edit) bureaucrats can be bought.

Edited October 20, 2012 by jacee

[Moonbox]

Hehe. Quebec is like the Greece of North America. Corrupt, lazy, and needs subsidization from its neighbours to stay afloat.

[Fletch 27]

So if its the Unions buying off politicians,, should they not be shut down? You know.. "The root of the evil"?

Do you gloss over the "left" when it does wrong? Do you recall that it was the Unions that paid off the NDP for the fundraiser in Quebec? And the NDP would not say WHAT unions they had to repay the funds too? It seems THE most corrupt party is the NDP (Via the Unions!).

This is a CRIME problem.

And they can only do the crimes if politicians can be bought.

[jacee]

So if its the Unions buying off politicians,, should they not be shut down? You know.. "The root of the evil"?

Do you gloss over the "left" when it does wrong? Do you recall that it was the Unions that paid off the NDP for the fundraiser in Quebec? And the NDP would not say WHAT unions they had to repay the funds too? It seems THE most corrupt party is the NDP (Via the Unions!).

Funny ... rampant corruption of politicians, ripping off taxpayers' money for organized crime ... and you're here to tell us that 'lefty unions' are the problem?

Who's paying you off to cover up?

[Fletch 27]

Please Jacee, simply read my link... It lays it out FOR YOU!

[Moonbox]

Funny ... rampant corruption of politicians, ripping off taxpayers' money for organized crime ... and you're here to tell us that 'lefty unions' are the problem?

Who's paying you off to cover up?

Everything is the problem. Corrupt unions (an ancient outlet for organized crime) and corrupt politicians (same thing) both need fixin'.

[jacee]

Everything is the problem. Corrupt unions (an ancient outlet for organized crime) and corrupt politicians (same thing) both need fixin'.

Everything is the problem. Corrupt unions (an ancient outlet for organized crime) and corrupt politicians (same thing) both need fixin'.

Agreed.

But we wouldn't want to forget the Mob(s).

[August1991]

The Charbonneau Commission is revealing systemic corruption of public officials in Quebec and misuse of millions of taxpayer dollars.

I think we all know this isn't just a Quebec problem ... and yet this discussion board is eerily silent ... suspiciously silent.

Where's the outrage?

Is this just 'business as usual' in Canada?

Jacee, you raise a good question.

Many Canadian Leftists want the government to do more. Quebec Inc is often shown as an example. For example in Quebec, the government provides free day care. (In the US, Obama wants the US federal government to organize health care.) Leftists think that if the government does more, more ordinary people will benefit.

Then again, maybe government is not such a good idea.

Jacee, this Quebec example shows that the concentration of power leads generally to corruption.

Edited October 20, 2012 by August1991

[jacee]

Please Jacee, simply read my link... It lays it out FOR YOU!

You mean ...

'Donnie Brasco' says Mob controls construction via unions FBI ex-agent Joseph

Yes I get your point.

But the main operative here is MOB.

Nothing suggests unions are willing participants, except those created by the Mob.

[bleeding heart]

Jacee, this Quebec example shows that the concentration of power leads generally to corruption.

If that's the case, why wouldn't the greater concentration of private power leasd inevitbalt to more ocrruption.

As you imply, knowingly or not, the problem is not "government"...it's Power itself.

This is one of the great weaknesses of the libertarian Right...while cogently explaining (well...arguably) how smaller government would benefit society, they tend to forget that concentrations of private power will tend to rise and fill the vaccuum.

Unelected, unrepresentative, unaccountable concentrations of private power.

that's not preferable to governent; it is de facto government. Sans democratic principles.

[Michael Hardner]

Jacee, this Quebec example shows that the concentration of power leads generally to corruption.

Absolutely. How would we measure such things, so as to get an objective measure beyond the cacophony of those who cry victim ?

[jacee]

Absolutely. How would we measure such things, so as to get an objective measure beyond the cacophony of those who cry victim ?

And how do we get past the partisan cacaphony to recognize the problem for what it is ... ORGANIZED CRIME infiltrating government and stealing taxpayers' money!

We'd be naive to think it's just in Quebec.

I thank them for exposing it.

You'd think by now other provinces would be speaking up too.

The silence is deafening.

Who's afraid of the big bad MOBs?

Everybody?

[jacee]

Hours later ...

Guess so.

[jacee]

Charbonneau Commission: Some promising anti-corruption measures have already been put forward

Good to know.

Contract prices are magically dropping.

[Fletch 27]

They can afford to lower the prices now that the NDP has paid back the funding money...

[jacee]

http://www.montrealgazette.com/touch/story.html?id=7426716

Not only did Surprenant corroborate more of the testimony of former construction boss Lino Zambito on Monday, he actually praised Zambito for daring to tell "the truth" at the inquiry.

"I found his testimony courageous," Surprenant said.

I agree.

[eyeball]

Corruption is like rust, it never sleeps. In the absence of ongoing maintenance, power and wealth is just as toxic to ethics as oxygen is to steel.

We have no more business forcing our public servants to work in the presence of power and wealth without adequate souveillance than we do forcing our nuclear workers to work without adequate shielding.

[August1991]

If that's the case, why wouldn't the greater concentration of private power leasd inevitbalt to more ocrruption.

As you imply, knowingly or not, the problem is not "government"...it's Power itself.

This is one of the great weaknesses of the libertarian Right...while cogently explaining (well...arguably) how smaller government would benefit society, they tend to forget that concentrations of private power will tend to rise and fill the vaccuum.

Unelected, unrepresentative, unaccountable concentrations of private power.

that's not preferable to governent; it is de facto government. Sans democratic principles.

But "private" power is decentralized. The power of the State is a monopoly.

Between private and State power, "unelected, unrepresentative, unaccountable" are not the key distinctions.

-----

The lesson in Quebec is the abuse of State power. If I don't like Walmart, I can walk down the street and give my money to a Canadian Tire. But I have no such choice when I pay my property taxes.

[jacee]

The Parti Quebecois minority government is turning the heat on the Liberals by placing them at the centre of the corruption scandal that has stunned the province.

Testimony before the Charbonneau Commission has given the PQ plenty of ammunition to mount an attack against the Liberals' integrity. Premier Pauline Marois intends to remind voters that the Liberals tried to bury the corruption issue by resisting for months public pressure to create a public inquiry.

The PQ demanded Thursday that the Liberals apologize for their stalling tactics and set up their own internal inquiry to investigate allegations of dubious ties with construction firms and questionable fundraising tactics.

"They could have taken the decision to create a commission of inquiry three years ago," Ms. Marois said. "They didn’t do it. They are partly responsible for what is happening."

...

"The Liberals should be ashamed for creating this mess and for allowing crooks and shady entrepreneurs go about their business like they did," said Bernard Drainville, the minister responsible for democratic institutions.

While the vast majority of testimony so far at the commission has involved municipal politics, especially in Montreal and Laval, some Liberals have been mentioned.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/pq-demands-liberals-set-up-internal-probe/article4657662/?service=mobile

Yup, time to see just where the trail of corruption leads ...

The other thread on this topic, btw, is just an attempt by an apparent political hack to deflect attention from the political players.

Edited October 26, 2012 by jacee

[Fletch 27]

Pretty clear its the Unions wagging the Liberals tail in this case..

[jacee]

Pretty clear its the Unions wagging the Liberals tail in this case..

You're a Liberal hack Fletch?

Or are you an organized crime supporter?

Or do you already know that the trail will eventually lead to the federal Conservatives?

Who are you attempting to protect?

[Fletch 27]

You're a Liberal hack Fletch?

Or are you an organized crime supporter?

Or do you already know that the trail will eventually lead to the federal Conservatives?

Who are you attempting to protect?

YOur forgetting, there are no Tories in Quebec.... The buck starts with the NDP fueled Unions and ENDS with the Quebec Liberals. Its nice to be sitting on the outside and watch these leftist parties consume themselves...