Mr.Canada Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 I'm curious about this. Would more government incentives such as national subsidized daycare and more added benefits equal more Canadians having more babies? We have to find a way to make having babies more rewarding so that we can rely less on outside sources for our ongoing shortage. I don't think that people not born here could love this country as much as I do. That is a problem. We need more Canadians who will feel a sense of pride in being Canadian, just Canadian. Not a hyphenated perversion of a Canadian. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Smallc Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 I don't think that people not born here could love this country as much as I do. . If the choice is between people like you and immigration, then I pick immigration. Seriously, there are many immigrants who love this country in ways that you'll never understand. Quote
guyser Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 If the choice is between people like you and immigration, then I pick immigration. Seriously, there are many immigrants who love this country in ways that you'll never understand. Well said. Quote
Bonam Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 I'm curious about this. Would more government incentives such as national subsidized daycare and more added benefits equal more Canadians having more babies? I would say probably not. One might intuitively think so, but the richest nations, the ones that provide the most benefits and support, also tend to have the lowest birth rates. European nations which tend to offer the most benefits have birth rates as low as 1.1-1.4 births/woman, far below replacement levels. We have to find a way to make having babies more rewarding so that we can rely less on outside sources for our ongoing shortage. I agree that having a self-sustaining population would be ideal. Unfortunately, implementing policy to try to achieve this seems to be very difficult. I don't think that people not born here could love this country as much as I do. That is a problem. Here I disagree. I believe it is perfectly possible for immigrants to "love" their new home as much as anyone else. Often, the memory of the how bad the place you left was serves to make you appreciate your new home even more. We need more Canadians who will feel a sense of pride in being Canadian, just Canadian. Not a hyphenated perversion of a Canadian. The idea of "hyphenated-Canadians" is a problem with our current immigrant system and philosophy of multiculturalism, not with the concept of immigration in general. Remember, all Canadians were immigrants at some point. The current lack of assimilation is a result of a number of factors, including the hyper-race-aware atmosphere of political correctness, technologies which make communicating with people and media in your place of origin easier and cheaper than ever, and high immigration rates. Quote
jacee Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) If the choice is between people like you and immigration, then I pick immigration. Seriously, there are many immigrants who love this country in ways that you'll never understand. **applause** Our families were all immigrants once, and Canadian values reflect our awareness that many different cultures worked together building Canada. People come to Canada because of Canadian values I do support a national child care program, but not for those reasons. Edited September 20, 2012 by jacee Quote
waldo Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 The idea of "hyphenated-Canadians" is a problem with our current immigrant system and philosophy of multiculturalism, not with the concept of immigration in general. Remember, all Canadians were immigrants at some point. The current lack of assimilation is a result of a number of factors, including the hyper-race-aware atmosphere of political correctness, technologies which make communicating with people and media in your place of origin easier and cheaper than ever, and high immigration rates. why deny MLW member, 'Mr. Canada's', full wording intent - "perverted hyphenated-Canadians"? so... your pinning the "hyphenated issue" on multiculturalism and a lack of assimilation, is one you presume to remedy by fostering politically incorrect unawareness, by removing enabling communicating technologies and by lowering immigration rates. Nuff said! Quote
Bonam Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 so... your pinning the "hyphenated issue" on multiculturalism and a lack of assimilation, is one you presume to remedy by fostering politically incorrect unawareness, by removing enabling communicating technologies and by lowering immigration rates. Nuff said! Not really, no. I was identifying causes, not making prescriptions. Now, I would and have argued for lower immigration rates, but I certainly have never and would never argue for removing any kind of communications technology. Quote
Smallc Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Canada was established with multiculturalism, even if it wasn't official policy at the time. We have always been a nation of 'hyphens' and it seems to have worked pretty well when you compare it to the immigrant experience in other countries. Quote
Shady Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 People come to Canada because of Canadian values Not necessarily. Quote
Shady Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Canada was established with multiculturalism Complete nonsense. Quote
Smallc Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Not necessarily. Not necessarily, but, most likely. Quote
PIK Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 If the choice is between people like you and immigration, then I pick immigration. Seriously, there are many immigrants who love this country in ways that you'll never understand. I agree there is many that do because of where they come from. But there is many that just love the benefits of being a canadian citizen. But a strong passion for the country requires being born and raised as a canadian.IMO Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Bonam Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Not necessarily, but, most likely. Not really. Most people who immigrate do so because they think that their destination country will likely offer them a chance to have a more prosperous, more economically secure, and/or safer life than staying where they were. Their cultural values may often be at odds with those prevalent in the destination country. Quote
Shady Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Not necessarily, but, most likely. Well, it depends. I think most people come to Canada because it's a better place to live, regardless of Canadian values. Quote
The_Squid Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Not a hyphenated perversion of a Canadian How long ago did your family immigrate to Canada? Quote
Smallc Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 I agree there is many that do because of where they come from. But there is many that just love the benefits of being a canadian citizen. But a strong passion for the country requires being born and raised as a canadian.IMO IMO, that's BS. Not really. Most people who immigrate do so because they think that their destination country will likely offer them a chance to have a more prosperous, more economically secure, and/or safer life than staying where they were. Their cultural values may often be at odds with those prevalent in the destination country. But it is the 'values' of the country that have shaped the country into the destination that it is. Immigrants families may not adapt completely in the first generation, but usually, by the second generation, they become very 'Canadian'. Even the first generation immigrants ofthen love this country in a way that many of us, who are born here, can't really understand. Well, it depends. I think most people come to Canada because it's a better place to live, regardless of Canadian values. Canadian values make it a better place to live. The above are examples of what I'm talking about when I say that some immigrants love this country in a way that natural born citizens often don't understand. I watched a recent Lebanese immigrant brought to tears during the fireworks show in Ottawa in 2010. That's not something fake or rare, and it's not something that some of you will ever understand. Quote
guyser Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 I think most people come to Canada because it's a better place to live, regardless of Canadian values. I would bet its a better place to live in part because of CDN values. Quote
wyly Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Canada was established with multiculturalism, even if it wasn't official policy at the time. We have always been a nation of 'hyphens' and it seems to have worked pretty well when you compare it to the immigrant experience in other countries. in what other countries? what countries have you been to? is this something you pick up on the evening news newspaper editorial or have first hand experience with? Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Newfoundlander Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 If the choice is between people like you and immigration, then I pick immigration. Seriously, there are many immigrants who love this country in ways that you'll never understand. I was thinking a similar thing. Quote
Smallc Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 in what other countries? what countries have you been to? is this something you pick up on the evening news newspaper editorial or have first hand experience with? Though I understand that the news media is a place where things are sensationalized, you can't discount the problems that happen in many Western European countries. France, Denmark, the UK, Germany.... Quote
wyly Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 But it is the 'values' of the country that have shaped the country into the destination that it is. explain what those values are that other countries don't have? Immigrants families may not adapt completely in the first generation, but usually, by the second generation, they become very 'Canadian'. Even the first generation immigrants ofthen love this country in a way that many of us, who are born here, can't really understand.true but it depends on where they come from....people born never had to make the same commitment as immigrants it's very very difficult thing to do, move to a new country where you may have no friends, no family, no job, don't speak the language...native born never have to make any commitments to their country... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Black Dog Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Though I understand that the news media is a place where things are sensationalized, you can't discount the problems that happen in many Western European countries. France, Denmark, the UK, Germany.... Problems that stem from these states' unwillingness to accept immigrants into their society. Rather than accepting them and helping them assimilate, these countries marginalize their immigrant populations, which creates a lot of the problems that we don't have in our multicultural society. Quote
Smallc Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 explain what those values are that other countries don't have? Many western countries do have those same values. Each has their own uniqueness, and Canada's does rather well as one of the top destinations, so, there's probably a reason. true but it depends on where they come from....people born never had to make the same commitment as immigrants it's very very difficult thing to do, move to a new country where you may have no friends, no family, no job, don't speak the language...native born never have to make any commitments to their country... Where have I said anything that would make you respond with that? Quote
Smallc Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 Problems that stem from these states' unwillingness to accept immigrants into their society. Rather than accepting them and helping them assimilate, these countries marginalize their immigrant populations, which creates a lot of the problems that we don't have in our multicultural society. That's right. The assimilation mentality still exists in the old countries. They have dilemma. They need the immigrants, but they don't want their culture. Canada, the United States, Australia, New Zealand (etc) on the other hand were born of immigration for the most part, and so they have cultures that adapt with their changing population, but anchored by the cultures of the founding nations that started the country. It's a unique and wonderful circumstance, really. Quote
Wild Bill Posted September 20, 2012 Report Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) How long ago did your family immigrate to Canada? My mother's side came over in the good ship Hector to Pictou, Nova Scotia. That was in the 1690's. How long does one's family have to be here before we stop being classed as immigrants? As for the OP, it seems rather a Rube Goldberg solution to talk of rewards for having children. The major difference working families have less children is because they have less disposable income and much less security. Plus we are taxed more than previous generations! Larger baby bonus cheques won't help if you lose your job, especially when the economic status quo these days is for both parents to have to work. People are not going to chose to have more children until and unless we return to one worker families where that worker is not constantly afraid of losing his job. Stop and think a minute. How long have we been seeing plant closures and downsizing? Plus job losses due to new technologies? I've been watching this trend for over 30 years! Companies put in new machines so they can eliminate labour costs. Computers have wiped out vast numbers of accounting jobs. Secretarial jobs are almost entirely gone. Today, the only families that have more than one or two children are those who don't have to care about money. Most of those are on some form of government assistance. Somehow, a few hundred dollars more as a child dependent deduction on our taxes is not likely to cut it. Edited September 20, 2012 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.