US Ambassador to Libya killed in attacks

[BubberMiley]

I will defend to your death your right to poke a bear with a stick.

[g_bambino]

So Muslims must be treated as unthinking animals?

I think that's essentially what he just said.

[GostHacked]

So Muslims must be treated as unthinking animals?

/facepalm

Humans are animals, and if they are not thinking and reactionary then they are unthinking animals.

But if a group is known to cause violence (and I am not talking moderates here) do you purposely stir the pot or do you tactfully try a different approach?

[GostHacked]

We are not talking about bears and woods. We are talking about intolerant religious fanatics who happen to be human. You analogy is a bad one... bears are not as senseless as these people...

Do you always voluntarily remove your rights because of extremist religious idiots? Richard Dawkins receives threats all the time because of his books/lectures that are anti-religion. Should he just shut up?

Awesome.

So my analogy got some pretty reactionary responses. Maybe I should continue doing that in order to prove that it's not my statement that is the problem, but how others react to that statement.

[Black Dog]

/facepalm

Humans are animals, and if they are not thinking and reactionary then they are unthinking animals.

But if a group is known to cause violence (and I am not talking moderates here) do you purposely stir the pot or do you tactfully try a different approach?

No one is arguing that the guy who kicked this off is not an asshat who is intentionally stirring the pot here. But the fault for rioting and murders will always lie with the backwards morons who think that's an acceptable response to the violation of some arcane provision of their creed. They are violent lunatics, but I see no reason why we should respect them for that fact.

[Black Dog]

Awesome.

So my analogy got some pretty reactionary responses. Maybe I should continue doing that in order to prove that it's not my statement that is the problem, but how others react to that statement.

And look at how we're taking issue with it: by discussing it. We're not burning your house down. But apparently, it would be better if we did.

[GostHacked]

And look at how we're taking issue with it: by discussing it. We're not burning your house down. But apparently, it would be better if we did.

So do I attract more negativity by continuing that line of thinking or do I change how I word things?

[GostHacked]

No one is arguing that the guy who kicked this off is not an asshat who is intentionally stirring the pot here. But the fault for rioting and murders will always lie with the backwards morons who think that's an acceptable response to the violation of some arcane provision of their creed. They are violent lunatics, but I see no reason why we should respect them for that fact.

I am not asking you to respect them. Simply to understand that what Pastor Jones was purposefully provoking and this was the reaction that was expected.

[Black Dog]

So do I attract more negativity by continuing that line of thinking or do I change how I word things?

Do what you want, safe in the knowledge that we are not a bunch of thugs who will physically harm you for it.

[GostHacked]

Do what you want, safe in the knowledge that we are not a bunch of thugs who will physically harm you for it.

Equate what Pastor Jones did to trolling. That is how I see it.

[Black Dog]

I am not asking you to respect them. Simply to understand that what Pastor Jones was purposefully provoking and this was the reaction that was expected.

"Respect" in the same sense as you "respect" the wild animals you won't poke. And I think the fact that this reaction was expected is precisely the problem. These nutjobs are nothing if not predictable.

[Guest American Woman]

Kind of like how people hear 'Islam is bad' and act the way they do. What Jones is doing is enticing the violence. He knows that if he insults them they will start some violence.

This is a deliberate attempt to stir the pot.

So let's say there's a group of fanatics in the U.S. who are tired of Canadians' insulting Americans and they tell Canadians to STFU or they will retaliate. Some Canadians say, 'this is a free country! I will say whatever I want. The U.S. sucks!' So said group gets angry and kills some Canadians. Who do you blame? The Canadians who said 'this is a free country, the U.S. sucks' or the Americans who killed the Canadians?

[GostHacked]

"Respect" in the same sense as you "respect" the wild animals you won't poke. And I think the fact that this reaction was expected is precisely the problem. These nutjobs are nothing if not predictable.

Sure they are violent nutjobs. Radical Islam is just that. But the west has been stirring this pot for a couple decades now with no resolution. Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt Tunisia, Libya, Syria all undermined by western backed rebels who had Al-queda among them .. So now these same rebels are causing the stink.

This is called BLOWBACK.

Muhajedeen turned Al-Queda bombed the WTC.

Action - reaction. And we wonder why this is not stopping anytime soon?

[GostHacked]

So let's say there's a group of fanatics in the U.S. who are tired of Canadians' insulting Americans and they tell Canadians to STFU or they will retaliate. Some Canadians say, 'this is a free country! I will say whatever I want. The U.S. sucks!' So said group gets angry and kills some Canadians. Who do you blame? The Canadians who said 'this is a free country, the U.S. sucks' or the Americans who killed the Canadians?

Well, who do you blame?

[The_Squid]

So let's say there's a group of fanatics in the U.S. who are tired of Canadians' insulting Americans and they tell Canadians to STFU or they will retaliate. Some Canadians say, 'this is a free country! I will say whatever I want. The U.S. sucks!' So said group gets angry and kills some Canadians. Who do you blame? The Canadians who said 'this is a free country, the U.S. sucks' or the Americans who killed the Canadians?

That's actually a good analogy.... makes more sense than a bear in the woods.

Obviously, we would contend that we are a free country and our rights will not be dictated by foreign extremists.

[Wilber]

Equate what Pastor Jones did to trolling. That is how I see it.

Bang on, he's a troll who doesn't care how many others die so he can play his games.

[The_Squid]

Sure they are violent nutjobs. Radical Islam is just that. But the west has been stirring this pot for a couple decades now with no resolution. Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt Tunisia, Libya, Syria all undermined by western backed rebels who had Al-queda among them .. So now these same rebels are causing the stink.

This is called BLOWBACK.

Muhajedeen turned Al-Queda bombed the WTC.

Action - reaction. And we wonder why this is not stopping anytime soon?

Yes, the issues are complex, however, I think that you are blowing this one out of proportion. THey are reacting to a video by a religious nutbar who does not speak for anyone other than himself and a small few other crazies.

American rights (free speech in this case) should not be dictated by radical religious crazies that may turn violent at the drop of a hat.

[Wilber]

I will defend to your death your right to poke a bear with a stick.

Exactly, with someone like Jones it is always someone else who gets killed while he exercises his right.

[The_Squid]

Exactly, with someone like Jones it is always someone else who gets killed while he exercises his right.

As stupid and detestable as he is, Jones did not kill anyone. Nor did he incite violence, as far as I know. Violent religious extremists are the problem and the target of people's outrage should be the violent religious extremists. If they protested like civilized people do, the Joneses of this world would slink back under their rock....

I have zero sympathy for these idiots. The problem is, they would happily tear people to pieces for simply espousing beliefs different to theirs. If it wasn't Jones' movie, it would be something else...

Edited September 12, 2012 by The_Squid

[GostHacked]

Yes, the issues are complex, however, I think that you are blowing this one out of proportion. THey are reacting to a video by a religious nutbar who does not speak for anyone other than himself and a small few other crazies.

American rights (free speech in this case) should not be dictated by radical religious crazies that may turn violent at the drop of a hat.

Sure but the movie was played in Egypt and Libya .... where America's free speech has no weight.

[Signals.Cpl]

So let's say there's a group of fanatics in the U.S. who are tired of Canadians' insulting Americans and they tell Canadians to STFU or they will retaliate. Some Canadians say, 'this is a free country! I will say whatever I want. The U.S. sucks!' So said group gets angry and kills some Canadians. Who do you blame? The Canadians who said 'this is a free country, the U.S. sucks' or the Americans who killed the Canadians?

If the Americans in your scenario were known to have a history of violence then I would say the Canadians would share a portion of the blame. In this case the Pastor and his supporters commit the action in the hope of getting a response, in no way are the people doing the killing innocent but neither is the person who intentionally stirring the pot just to get a response. The fact is this idiot is instigating the situation for his own personal gain. He feels that he has the right to say and do anything to express his views, even if it will mean someone else will have to die. He is playing god with somebody else's life knowing full well that his actions would cause a violent reaction which would cause death to Americans in particular or failing to find Americans the death of any Westerners.

[Boges]

Here's an example of how out of control fundamentalist Muslims are that don't involve an idiot making a movie.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/Pakistan/I-may-be-killed-fears-Pakistani-girl-accused-of-blasphemy/Article1-928501.aspx

"I'm scared," said Rimsa Masih, a teenaged Christian girl in Pakistan who faced a life sentence for allegedly buring pages of the Quran but has now been released on bail. She told a US broadcaster about her fears that she may be killed.

Rimsha Masih, who was taken into custody under

the blasphemy law, told CNN that she was happy to be back with her family but still feared for her life.

"I'm scared," she told CNN over phone. "I'm afraid of anyone who might kill us."

She spoke from her hideout where she was taken in a helicopter after her release on bail.

When asked how she was doing, she said she was good.

"No, no," she replied to a query on whether she ever burned pages of the Quran.

Were you falsely accused? "Yes," she responded.

Rimsha's lawyers have denied that she desecrated the Quran. They said instead said that the neighbour wanted to settle a personal score with Rimsha because the two didn't get along.

The lawyers told CNN this may have been because he liked her but she didn't like him back.

Rimsha's father Mizrak Mashi said no one in his family would dare dishonour the Quran.

"We respect the Quran just like we respect the Bible," he was quoted as saying.

How can anyone reason with people that would kill a teenage girl for ALLEGEDLY! burning the Quran?

[Wilber]

As stupid and detestable as he is, Jones did not kill anyone. Nor did he incite violence, as far as I know. Violent religious extremists are the problem and the target of people's outrage should be the violent religious extremists. If they protested like civilized people do, the Joneses of this world would slink back under their rock....

Of course he incited violence. He knew what the consequences of his actions were likely to be. As far as he is concerned, th more innocents who die the better. It just makes his case in his own sick mind.

[Guest American Woman]

Well, who do you blame?

I asked you first, so I'll answer after you do.

[msj]

The question I ask is if a bear walks into a bar....

No, seriously, if, say, a group of Muslims assassinated Terry Jones how would you feel?

I think it would be great!

Terry Jones would be dead and the authorities would get a chance to prosecute Muslims in a way even most "leftists" could agree with!

Although righties may not like it unless a little torture is thrown in for good measure.